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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says?


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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 9:28:03 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4211
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		Ygraine,

Certainly, in any humanitarian disaster, we expect a breakdown of society.  The point at hand, though, is if women are left completely helpless, defenseless, and reliant upon men for their survival in these cases. 

Asian and Middle Eastern disasters are unlike disasters in the US in this regard, in that women in these cultures have been raised and conditioned to believe they are incapable of their own protection and substinance.  Women aren't more likely to be victims due to their sex, but rather a culture that does not permit adequate educations to overcome such disasters.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to ygraine)
Profile   Post #: 381
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 9:32:12 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

Just a reply:

From most accounts that has heard about or read about over stars adult years ..most attackers (more specifically those of a physical nature) either Male or female as the aggressors..have used external items (knives, guns, bondage items, drugs, etc.) in their arsenals to do so.

Can't say as to date that has ever heard of a Male who has resorted to attack on a female Not having used some other (system of protection) to complete their task.

Maybe someone can share accounts they know of  a case where a Male completed such a overpowering agressive attack using only his physical strength?

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to ygraine)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 10:54:57 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		Stephann said:
quote:


Rapture,
Proof would mean photographic evidence, or testimonials, or something to that effect.  While I've no doubt that women were raped, I would suspect that there were a number of women who, faced with protecting and feeding their children, stepped up into leadership roles to ensure that food was acquired.  Perhaps you have evidence to the contrary?  Conjecture is not proof.
Stephan

 
What is interesting you confirm what I say, then turn around and make a conjecture, then turn around and discount conjecture as evidence.
 
What I did enjoy " " is the armed escorts the searchers had on board their boats, along with the gun shots in the distance while the news people were filming. Let us not forget the news people themselves having armed escort along with the more wealthy people hiring "mercs" to protect their various interests and property...
 
Not like the police were doing all to much, nor any other reports were made to them that _could be proved_ but certainly "things" occured that required all of the above fire power.
 
"Statistics on the incidence of rape are usually based on available police records. More often, these are inaccurate and not a true representation of the problem, for cultural and social stigmatisation associated with rape act as significant barriers to women reporting rape. Furthermore, women are more likely not to report rape if there is little support from their families, law enforcement agencies and the health sector."
Source:
http://www.aworc.org/bpfa/pub/sec_d/vaw00001.html

( good try y )

quote:
From most accounts that has heard about or read about over stars adult years ..most attackers (more specifically those of a physical nature) either Male or female as the aggressors..have used external items (knives, guns, bondage items, drugs, etc.) in their arsenals to do so.

 
...and where were the femdoms coming to the resque? Surely, you do not bring a knife to a gun fight, the same is foolish. I have no doubt others male and female used tools, but the point being is that the females needed those tools more so than the males.
 
Keep trying so far so good for me...and my contentions...
 
Rapture
 

< Message edited by Rapture -- 6/20/2007 10:59:55 AM >

(in reply to Stephann)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 11:08:30 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4211
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		Your proof is a quote that rapes might have occurred, but might have been unreported?

I didn't confirm what you said.  You said that absent social structures, anarchy ensued and women were dependent on men to survive in the wake of the hurricane.  I said that rapes probably occurred, but that's not evidence that women depended on men.

I'm all ears.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Rapture)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 11:16:49 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

Not sure what "nice try" means but despite that Master Rapture..showing statistics that alot of females don't report abuse because of one reason or another is in itself guess work and speculation if any amount of percentile is used. Fails to see how anyone can know such a thing if its not reported to anyone.

None the less..none of that information addressed what was asked by star. What is reported and known..Does usually by accounts yield information that some sort of external use of items was used during such a crime. So it would seem just as likely that a Male would resort to protections in order to accomplish or defend.

If police reports are so inaccurate..then that information would swing both ways. The inaccuracys that they do report and become available to the media to show thier "muckups" aren't generally one's concerning use of items.

Now in all fairness..if one searches for this information on the internet..there is alot of statistics that lean to the fact that a high percentage of crimes to include rape don't involve other weapons. Whats generally reported in the media and that has again..viewed over the years of such stuff in the media most often times did include other persuasive items.

No matter what the percentile is one way or the other..still fails to see how any of this..wether a Male did or didn't use something to victimize a woman..has any relevancy to a female needing more protection of the system then Males do.

A Man rapes a woman. Okay..so liza beat the snot out of her husband. Even if a person..Male or female were able to physically best their opponent..Most won't because they are more civilized than that. The schoolground bully mentalilty went out along time ago.

Still out of all of this..has absolutely no idea what it is your trying to convey Master Rapture..lol.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 6/20/2007 11:29:56 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 11:22:31 AM   
Rapture


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Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
I didn't confirm what you said.  You said that absent social structures, anarchy ensued and women were dependent on men to survive in the wake of the hurricane. 


"While I've no doubt that women were raped,.............."
 
Nuff Said.
 
Rapture

(in reply to Stephann)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 12:52:52 PM   
empresschaos


Posts: 84
Joined: 10/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rapture
Oh it is not me who has been doing the whinning...

Opinions vary.
~stef


Opinions are just dandy. That is why a long time ago I decided to keep emails, logs, and such other things that would otherwise concern me. Then the same can be referenced later when spew crops up, then effectively refuted. If anything I do know how to do research, keep records, have patience, and give people enough rope to hang themselves.

More actual thread material forthcoming...

Rapture


Ok, a lot of people say "lol" when they actually did not, in fact, laugh out loud. You are a forty year old man who documents insults flung at you? On the internet for chrissakes? I'd consider myself ambitious if I kept a log in the workplace of assorted conflicts...

6/19/07 10:15... out of coffee... drat it all. Whose job is this anyway? I think Bill drinks more than his share. Note to self: monitor coffee consumption for the java glutton in the office.
 
Seriously! Who hangs themself online these days, anyway. Psht. I have no real insult for you, just a giggle at some dude nearly old enough to be my father meticulously filing away internet jabs. lol. Literally.

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 1:19:29 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7232
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:



Original: Rapture

You are certainly correct Orion, when you say talk is cheap, then again noone over my time being online opposed me as they would here but in person-not even you, nor will you ever, nor will the about five or so other people who enjoy flamming me.

Rapture


Then we actually have something in common, besides overcoming a severe physical limitation to be in good shape. Maybe one day we will get to have that beer, whether here or in San Fran. I don't have the time to go there, and doubt you have the time to come here. I am sure we would walk away knowing something more about each other, and ourselves. I usually do not drink much but when I do it is Corona on the cheap side and a dry english cider when I can get it on draft, usually Strongbow.


Orion

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 1:24:08 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 35843
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: empresschaos

quote:

 

6/19/07 10:15... out of coffee... drat it all. Whose job is this anyway? I think Bill drinks more than his share. Note to self: monitor coffee consumption for the java glutton in the office.


UMMMMMMMM-------are we in the same office?  Is that the same jackass that is too lazy to make another pot when there is only a teaspoon of coffee left in the pot?

email me, let's set up a meeting with the board of directors on this STAT!

I would like to get my hands on that RatFuck.

Hup the Fool 

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to empresschaos)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 1:40:07 PM   
empresschaos


Posts: 84
Joined: 10/23/2005
Status: offline 		Oh, yes. I'm with you, Hup. It's all documented. That's about 95% of the reason I got a PalmPilot. For documenting my grieeeeevances.

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 1:43:44 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 35843
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		could you loan that out to Rapture?

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 1:58:01 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		I'm using quick reply:

So some under-educated, under-employed/unemployed, impoverished, powerless mostly non-causcasion males acted out their anger and powerlessness in the Super Dome after Katrina...this is shocking in what way? This illustrates male dominance in what way? If they had been "pillars of manhood" to begin with they would of been in a position to get the hell out before the storm hit. The crime rate in New Orleans was high before Katrina, so the fact that it continued after isn't any big surprise. I highly doubt if a Hurricane or more realistically an earthquake comes and wipes out Balboa Island tonight that you will see a high number of the neighborhood men running around looting/raping/pillaging...it is possible we have a psychopath or two around here but not many powerless, impoverished, angry males.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 2:33:02 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm going to agree with you about the post Katrina outcropping of primal nature. Lacking civilization, the result just was, what it was. In the area where I live, much has been made of governmental actions at the time of the disaster. It's interresting to note that one of the first things the police did, was confiscate registered firearms. That's a topic for another thread, but does show the magnitude that unsavory elements were handed the keys to the city.
 
Lets go a different way, on the same general topic. When life takes a base form, having your needs met and personal safety take on an importance that overshadows most other 'offenses.' I think we have all heard parenthetical accounts of men in prison, deciding the allow the giant bull queer to have sex with them, in order to gain that person's protection ... or soldiers that couldn't stand each other during peace, becoming fast friends in time of war, as a method of mutual protection. Less parenthetical, for me at least, when you are alone of the street, you will 'willingly' trade whatever you have, for a hot meal and safe place to spend the night. Of course you aren't really willing ... you have just accepted the notion of base society, that nothing comes for free.
 
I sometimes wonder how much this manifests in our notion of consentual slavery. I don't know enough about it to make an educated guess ... but have you ever wondered how many slaves feel the draw of slavery, and how many are doing what they have to do, to get a man? This seems offensive on the surface, but at the same time has direct correlation to the Gorean books.
 
On a different topic, I don't think your 99.9 %, 'non-spew' thought it well considered. The numbers may be correct, but the cause-effect may not be:
  • What percentage of people are just more quiet offline?
  • What percentage of people are poor communicators, where flames come out, without real intent?
  • What percentage of people see debate as a contact sport ... and meeting someone, isn't a debate?

The reality is, that we don't live in post Katrina chaos ... those base rules don't actually apply.
 
Speaking hypothetically, I would feel pretty confident saying just about anything directly to your face. I mean, what are you going to do ... beat me up?

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 3:00:58 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Hang on.  Who says white men can't rape, pillage and plunder?  I've got a Jolly Roger on board just waiting to be hoisted up the flag hallyard in case of an earthquake or otherwise induced breakdown in civil order.  Yarrrr!!!!

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 6/20/2007 3:02:07 PM >

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Leonidas

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 3:59:02 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

Hang on.  Who says white men can't rape, pillage and plunder?  I've got a Jolly Roger on board just waiting to be hoisted up the flag hallyard in case of an earthquake or otherwise induced breakdown in civil order.  Yarrrr!!!!


LOL! I'm sorry I wasn't implying that they can't(or don't) but the situation in New Orleans had some factors in place that are not generally in place where we live...and if you go on a raping and pillaging rampage could you stop by?

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to Leonidas)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 4:55:57 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4211
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		My my.  Seems someone is anxiously awaiting September 19th.

Anyway, you're still up a creek on your proof, Rapture.  Rapes occured before Katrina, and continue to occur well after order has been restored.  Murder, theft, destruction of private property, and numbers of other crimes were also committed against both men and women, by both men and women.  I'd bet you 100 bucks there was at least one case of forcible sodomy on a male in the wake of Katrina; men raping men.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

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Profile   Post #: 396
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 5:13:36 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 3938
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Ohhh, careful Leonidas...Ask the young Houston chick there what playing pirate means to the kids these days before you and not edana says the "yarrr" word....lol

Bull

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

While some people are ruled by emotion, I suspect you'll find that I'm rather obdurate.

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

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Profile   Post #: 397
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/20/2007 8:17:41 PM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
I'm going to agree with you about the post Katrina outcropping of primal nature. Lacking civilization, the result just was, what it was. In the area where I live, much has been made of governmental actions at the time of the disaster. It's interresting to note that one of the first things the police did, was confiscate registered firearms. That's a topic for another thread, but does show the magnitude that unsavory elements were handed the keys to the city.


Lacking "civilization" is the nature state of not only the specie that we call human but other specie as well. The human specie is one of the most ruthless animal on the face of this planet. We prey on each other, we prey on other specie, and we make things that will wipe us all out-now this is intelligence and wisdom at work.

We of course the police confisicated -registered- firearms yet the anti-gun people always say this would never happen (of course this is really a side topic unto itself).

quote:


Lets go a different way, on the same general topic. When life takes a base form, having your needs met and personal safety take on an importance that overshadows most other 'offenses.' I think we have all heard parenthetical accounts of men in prison, deciding the allow the giant bull queer to have sex with them, in order to gain that person's protection ... or soldiers that couldn't stand each other during peace, becoming fast friends in time of war, as a method of mutual protection. Less parenthetical, for me at least, when you are alone of the street, you will 'willingly' trade whatever you have, for a hot meal and safe place to spend the night. Of course you aren't really willing ... you have just accepted the notion of base society, that nothing comes for free.


Your right about the fact that nothing is really free (especially freedom).

quote:


I sometimes wonder how much this manifests in our notion of consentual slavery. I don't know enough about it to make an educated guess ... but have you ever wondered how many slaves feel the draw of slavery, and how many are doing what they have to do, to get a man? This seems offensive on the surface, but at the same time has direct correlation to the Gorean books.


In consentual "slavery" .... seems that is a contradictory term, and oxymoron no less... Just take a few moments to think on that before responding.

quote:


On a different topic, I don't think your 99.9 %, 'non-spew' thought it well considered. The numbers may be correct, but the cause-effect may not be:
  • What percentage of people are just more quiet offline?
  • What percentage of people are poor communicators, where flames come out, without real intent?
  • What percentage of people see debate as a contact sport ... and meeting someone, isn't a debate?



On a non-scientific basis, look around in how many read or are accessing these various forums vs. responding vs. using personal attack to respond vs. actually having a discussion. Look at this very thread and how many people are actually having a discussion vs. just throwing out personal attacks............

quote:


The reality is, that we don't live in post Katrina chaos ... those base rules don't actually apply.


Do you or I get to turn off nature just because some legislature passes a law, or some police dude or dudette is on patrol? If the answer is no, then the reality is that the post Katrina attributes are there, but perhaps just not as much, or even more depending on the person and a the stated goal (in one form or the other). If yes, you just changed the entire natural world, and universe.....

quote:


Speaking hypothetically, I would feel pretty confident saying just about anything directly to your face. I mean, what are you going to do ... beat me up?


The reality of it is you really wouldnt know what I would do, or wouldnt do or anyone else at that.

Rapture

< Message edited by Rapture -- 6/20/2007 8:19:48 PM >

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 398
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/21/2007 3:29:57 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rapture
Do you or I get to turn off nature just because some legislature passes a law, or some police dude or dudette is on patrol? If the answer is no, then the reality is that the post Katrina attributes are there, but perhaps just not as much, or even more depending on the person and a the stated goal (in one form or the other). If yes, you just changed the entire natural world, and universe..... 


I agree that the answer is no, but draw a different conclusion.
 
The things we have made ... physical, institutional, and emotional ... are thing that are now part of nature. The gun that makes people equal, is now part of nature. The legislature that passes laws, is now part of nature. Feelings like "all are equal under God," are now part of nature. Agree with them or not, to exclude them from nature is pure folly.
 
Pick a difficult topic like feminism. Not popular on this board ... not popular with me ... but it does exist as something we created, and as such, is now part of nature. Dispute the ideal it represents (and I do to a great extent), but the reality is that men once had all the power ... so they either gave some up willingly, or women took some. Either way, those must be considered natural events, by all measures of sanity.
 
Pick another, like taxes. We all hate them, but we all pay them. On some level, we must have seen the need and created the system. It has to be a natural event ... it can by cause/effect, be no other.
 
Bottom line, I agree that the answer it no ... but do not agree with your idea of what "yes" would mean.
 
P.S. I really don't want to enter the discussion about slavery, consentual or otherwise. In all candor I just don't feel qualified to speak intelligently on that topic. Anything I have to say, would tend to be parenthetical, hypothetical and simplistic. It sounds like a way to offend people and get flamed ... lets pass on that today.

(in reply to Rapture)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 6/21/2007 5:00:52 PM   
ygraine


Posts: 674
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline 		Tal Bull,
True so true! or Angry Pirate, you can look that up if you like www.urbandictionary.com, or I will explain it, but not here of course!
ARRRRRRRRRR!My eyes! My eyes!
Y

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