RE: Why the Gorean Label?

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/2/2007 6:44:07 PM

Leonidas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

I'm not sure why you seen the thread as funny, actually, I'm even not sure if you meant funny hah hah, or funny peculiar. So it will be hard to understand your point or address your funny comment.

Funny because, as I said, anyone who read the books and understood something of Gorean character would not be at all suprised that they'd be proud to wear the label.

quote:

I trust you chose the label for much more than its chauvinistic overtones. You seem to have much more depth than that. And while I also embrace that part of myself and hold no shame that I am a chauvinist, I would have to say, that wasn’t the reason I jumped under the Gorean umbrella.

That's why I said "in the true sense of the word". The feminist movement hijacked "chauvinism" in the 1970s as a slur on men who did not gladly accept the notion of sexual equality, but that's not actually what the word means. It means a fierce, and to an ousider unreasonable, pride in the group to which one belongs. It's something natural in men who retain something of manhood, and have not been fully convinced that individuality is to be valued above all. It's why you see "Semper Fidelis" bumper stickers, and club colors proudly emblazoned on the backs of biker jackets. Men with a little sand left in them understand it, whereas potato shaped, pasty faced men who march along in the uniforms of bland faceless commerce do not.

In short, someone who would have to ask me why I would stand up and proudly say "I'm Gorean" doesn't understand the first god damn thing about it, and to someone who does understand, it ought to seem like a very funny (odd) question.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/2/2007 7:07:22 PM >

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/2/2007 7:41:21 PM

xBullx

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ok.............. it's funny peculiar......fair enough.

< Message edited by xBullx -- 8/2/2007 7:43:04 PM >

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/2/2007 7:58:36 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

In short, someone who would have to ask me why I would stand up and proudly say "I'm Gorean" doesn't understand the first god damn thing about it....

Tal Leonidas,

Maybe I'm one of them, or I'm misunderstanding. It just doesn't seem to make sense to me to be "proud" of my philosophy. It's just my philosophy. I could be a fool. I don't think so, but that's how stupid things usually start.

In the final analysis, only the life we lead can speak for or against the authenticity of the label we claim. There is obviously quite a crop of fools out there who claim it too, proving that we are not un-baised judges of ourselves. But I will say, I am proud to be named as Gorean by others.

Be well,

Kirata

< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/2/2007 8:10:38 PM >

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/2/2007 8:20:33 PM

xBullx

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Tal Kirata,

Sometimes I sit and type and type, ramble on and never do get my thoughts into words worth a shit and then I witness your posts; while it is seldom that you type much, it is often that you do say much.

Live well Gorean,

Bull

< Message edited by xBullx -- 8/2/2007 8:22:30 PM >

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/3/2007 5:26:13 AM

Leonidas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Maybe I'm one of them, or I'm misunderstanding. It just doesn't seem to make sense to me to be "proud" of my philosophy. It's just my philosophy. I could be a fool. I don't think so, but that's how stupid things usually start.

Could be. Think for a moment about the two examples I gave from the books. Why "Rask of Treve" and not just "Rask". Why would a man walk around wearing blue, or yellow, or red, instead of any old color?

It's because we're human males. The more in touch with that we are, the more (unreasonably to someone who doesn't understand) we are proud of who our people are, whether that be caste brothers, men who share a Home Stone with us, or, in this case, the group of men who at least claim to have the same (rare in our society) understanding of manhood that we do. It goes all the way back to when our survival depended on the group of males to which we belonged having the ability to defend some fruit trees together against other groups of males. We haven't lost it, most of us are just ashamed of it now.

quote:

In the final analysis, only the life we lead can speak for or against the authenticity of the label we claim. There is obviously quite a crop of fools out there who claim it too, proving that we are not un-baised judges of ourselves.

This part gave me a chuckle. If a man stands up and claims "I'm Gorean" I give him credit for at least getting the part we're talking about right. He's demonstrating the kind of chauvinism that is in fact an aspect of Gorean character. I might tell him he's full of shit, and we might scrap about that for a while, but that's just another part of being human, and male, that most men don't get anymore.

quote:

But I will say, I am proud to be named as Gorean by others.

And as you can probably tell, I could really give a whistling rats ass what some other man would call me. I stand for something. I do. If you do too, claim it, proudly, as a man. If we happen to dispute one another's claims, come, lets do battle. It wil all get sorted out in the end and we'll find ourselves brothers, or not.

Come on folks. This isn't a lady's mutual admiration society. If you would stand among us, dammit, sound off like you've got a pair, claim it, and then lets see if you can stick around.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/3/2007 5:37:35 AM >

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/3/2007 6:13:10 AM

xBullx

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Tal Leonidas,

Sometimes I'm guilty of not speaking directly about a topic or an issue, trying to lead the horse to water so to speak. Sometimes when I do that though, since there are folks that don't know me personally they miss the point and even take offenes to my words which shuts off their reception gland, they quit hearing my message, question or story.

This post opened my reception gland (my hearing) again. It may be true you could give a whistling rats ass what folks call you or think about you, but you are here typing for a reason. I'm sure you know what that reason is. I only have a suspicion. But I suspect it is an honorable one.

Just another point, there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance as seen by those that are watching, listening and judging us. On one hand they follow us and hear our message well, on the other hand we come off as a condescending asshole. I think this condition also has bias motivations. I read that somewhere once.

Live well Gorean,

Bull

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Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/3/2007 6:58:18 AM

Leonidas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

This post opened my reception gland (my hearing) again. It may be true you could give a whistling rats ass what folks call you or think about you, but you are here typing for a reason. I'm sure you know what that reason is. I only have a suspicion. But I suspect it is an honorable one.

Well it sure as fuck isn't to show people how Gorean I am, or to try to get them to call me Gorean. I am Gorean, and, to the point of this thread, proud to call myself Gorean. If I was not, there is a sense in which I wouldn't be. It's an integral part of Gorean character. Some of the men who post here, obviously lack that trait. They prefer to honor their individuality to flying colors. That's fair enough, but it's not Gorean, and so they are right to refute the label.

quote:

Just another point, there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance as seen by those that are watching, listening and judging us. On one hand they follow us and hear our message well, on the other hand we come off as a condescending asshole. I think this condition also has bias motivations. I read that somewhere once.

Arrogance is an often misused word. It means to overstate ones importance or worth in an overbearing manner.

The folks whose delicate sensibilities I might offend will stop reading me, which is fine by me, because the likelihood that I'm talking to them in the first place is pretty remote. The other folks will stand up and contest my opinions if they think I've been arrogant, which, is fine by me too, as I think you can tell.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/3/2007 7:01:35 AM >

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/3/2007 7:19:40 AM

xBullx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

Well it sure as fuck isn't to show people how Gorean I am, or to try to get them to call me Gorean. I am Gorean, and, to the point of this thread, proud to call myself Gorean. If I was not, there is a sense in which I wouldn't be. It's an integral part of Gorean character. Some of the men who post here, obviously lack that trait. They prefer to honor their individuality to flying colors. That's fair enough, but it's not Gorean, and so they are right to refute the label.

Well that's well and good. It also wasn't the reason I had in mind. If it was simply all about your Gorean-ness that you were here, that would be a waist of time wouldn't it? I also don't see where you find yourself learning all that much from the rest of us. So I had assumed you were here to offer some inspiration and wanted to pass on your experience. But that was just my guess.

quote:

Arrogance is an often misused word. It means to overstate ones importance or worth in an overbearing manner.

The folks whose delicate sensibilities I might offend will stop reading me, which is fine by me, because the likelihood that I'm talking to them in the first place is pretty remote. The other folks will stand up and contest my opinions if they think I've been arrogant, which, is fine by me too, as I think you can tell.

Yeah, I know what arrogance is. I have had my tussles with it myself. The problem it creates is that while we are choked within its grasp, we most often fail to take note of its hold of us.

I myself hope no one stops reading you. You often use what i suspect our your experiences to help the rest of us to sort things out in our mind. You are a gifted Gorean and I suspect you fancy yourself a leader of this tribe, family, herd, pack or whatever the hell we are. It is also true that your Gorean opinions and direction is sought by most folks here.

But hey these are just some funny thoughts in a funny thread. I'm peculiar that way.

Live well,

Bull

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Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/3/2007 7:44:58 AM

Driver1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Tal Leonidas,

Sometimes I'm guilty of not speaking directly about a topic or an issue, trying to lead the horse to water so to speak. Sometimes when I do that though, since there are folks that don't know me personally they miss the point and even take offenes to my words which shuts off their reception gland, they quit hearing my message, question or story.

This post opened my reception gland (my hearing) again. It may be true you could give a whistling rats ass what folks call you or think about you, but you are here typing for a reason. I'm sure you know what that reason is. I only have a suspicion. But I suspect it is an honorable one.

Just another point, there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance as seen by those that are watching, listening and judging us. On one hand they follow us and hear our message well, on the other hand we come off as a condescending asshole. I think this condition also has bias motivations. I read that somewhere once.

Live well Gorean,

Bull

Arrogance is an often misused word. It means to overstate ones importance or worth in an overbearing manner.

The folks whose delicate sensibilities I might offend will stop reading me, which is fine by me, because the likelihood that I'm talking to them in the first place is pretty remote. The other folks will stand up and contest my opinions if they think I've been arrogant, which, is fine by me too, as I think you can tell.

He dips His lid in the cyber Gor world. Yes I do have a bias towards Gor based upon personal experiences personally related by others and my interpretation of the Books of Gor- prior knowledge/experiences always engenders bias.

However I'm with Bull. This thread is both amusing sad and enlightening. I am not delicate (puny frame maybe!) nor offended but very amused that someone who regards their words have STRENGTH - does not care if anyone is empowered by that strength- now that is very amusing to me. It's like standing on a mountain preaching to an empty mountain and saying you are the King of the Mountain- well you certainly are in that instance.

Thanks guys for an interesting (more apt )reading. I have enjoyed your thoughts.

Warm regards Driver.

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/3/2007 2:39:32 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

This part gave me a chuckle.... And as you can probably tell, I could really give a whistling rats ass

Glad you got a laugh out of it. I am very grateful to you for pouring out your font of Gorean wisdom to poor souls like myself who don't "understand the first god damn thing about it." If you ever happen to feel that a bit of comic relief might be helpful on some future occasion, just let me know and I'll give you the courtesy of another thoughtful response.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/3/2007 3:09:00 PM >

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/5/2007 4:44:13 PM

Aswad

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Just a quick reply to Leonidas here...

Touting the importance of individual development is not mutually exclusive with pride in one's group. I have met few others who hold the former more highly than I do, yet I have groups I strongly identify with and take great pride in that, to an extent that fits the definition of chauvinism you offered (I'm only familiar with the current use, as the original predates me, and I've learned the language through exposure). The main herd of Norwegian society just isn't one of those groups I identify with. It comes down to the difference between recognizing yourself in others, and becoming what a group wants you to be. Individuality is not defined by seperateness from groups; that is just a complementary form of herd mentality.

Regards,
al-Aswad.

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/6/2007 10:26:37 PM

Keshia1969

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Greetings Master Bull,

this one thanks you for the kind words. Its men like yourself that makes us who we are,to strive to be pleasing to all the the free.

~~well wishes~~
keshia1969

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/6/2007 10:35:52 PM

Keshia1969

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Greetings Master Bull,

this one thanks you for your kind word's.And for this one to be proud of the gorean term means its men like yourself that helps me strive to become who this one is and to be proud of what this one is a slave.

~~well wishes~~
keshia1969

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RE: Why the Gorean Label? - 8/7/2007 6:14:23 AM

ygraine

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oh nevermind.

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