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Molding a slave - 6/28/2007 6:24:32 PM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
aea was inspired to write this post as a bit of an offshoot of another which had to do with how men knew that their slave was the girl for them.
 
Online over the years aea has read and spoken of men molding slaves. In her mind aea never sees the slave as a shapeless piece of clay.  she sees it as a girl really would likely be, with a figure, with flaws and perfections.  aea also sees each piece of clay to be different and that a man would select the one that most resembles what he desires.  From there aea imagines the "molding" to be of bits that would shape the girl to know what pleases him most; It would be to enhance the features he most wants accentuated.  All-in-all aea imagines that a man would select a slave that he didn't want to change entirely but one he desired to improve upon and enhance.

While the "clay" example is a very physical one, clearly aea means something more than that. 

Does "molding" mean remaking a slave? And if it does, then does it matter which girl a man chooses as his own other than one he can completely make over? Is a girl that empty canvas on which a man will create his own design and desire from scratch?
 
For the record, this is not a personal thread related to aea for those who might read into it.  The other discussion simply got aea to wondering.  How much "molding" do men do, and is it something they consider before they collar a girl? 
 
aea hopes this rambling thought has made some sort of sense.
 
she wishes you well.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Molding a slave - 6/28/2007 7:22:56 PM   
aytinathsiceain


Posts: 6
Joined: 6/5/2007
Status: offline 		the true molding only occurs when the true kijira is with the true Gorean Master on a daily bases as we as slaves are never truely molded even then as it is a daily learning task each day this girl should know as she is with her Gorean Master 24/7 Master says the true molding takes place when sub/slave has no experience when one has experience the Master should only polish and hone the skills of His slave

(in reply to aeaa)
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RE: Molding a slave - 6/28/2007 8:05:22 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		Good evening aytinathsiceain,

I'm sorry, i did not understand one word you typed.  What is this: true molding/true kijira?/true Gorean Master.  Compared tooooo????  false one's?

I know i'm probably coming off sounding like a smartass, and you may be right, i have been known to be one from time to time.........but i don't get your post. 

~smilezz~

_____________________________

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/29/2007 2:33:46 AM   
patina


Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: no
Status: offline 		Greetings aeaa:

Molding  to shape one into a form that is desirable to you.  My own definition, too lazy to find the dictionary.  I can only speak for the Masters I have talked with.  They have said to me when we discussed molding and reshapping me to fit their standard.  That a girl must first have certain atributes they desire in order for the molding process to be possible. 

In one case a Master wanted me to be willing to pick physical fights in clubs, bars, and other public places to show my pride, respect, and love for Him.  I told Him NO WAY I was not going to start and be in fights just to bolster his ego.  I knew of better ways to do it without causing me harm and getting us kicked out of places and put in jail.  He said I was not the type of girl He cared to mold into His slave. 

This shows to me that not all girls are of the right molding type for all Masters.  Each Master will have His own version of what He wants.   He will look for that protype and then mold her to fit His needs.  She must first meet certain criteria though before she can be intergrated into His molding process.  I do not think a Master is willing to waste His valuable time on molding a girl He is not sure will be able to justify His involvement.  He will know from the start as to if she is of the right quality.  Yes there can and will be mistakes, we are all human and therefor quite capable of making them. 

I hope this has helped you somewhat with your pondering I imagine you mainly wanted Masters to answer but oh well, 


peace be to all 

patina

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/29/2007 3:37:45 AM   
Jaded2005


Posts: 56
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smilezz

Good evening aytinathsiceain,

I'm sorry, i did not understand one word you typed.  What is this: true molding/true kijira?/true Gorean Master.  Compared tooooo????  false one's?

I know i'm probably coming off sounding like a smartass, and you may be right, i have been known to be one from time to time.........but i don't get your post. 

~smilezz~

Very true. I have met many women who claim to be dominate, I wouldn't let them have control over my pet. Attaching a title to oneself is for the insecure.

< Message edited by Jaded2005 -- 6/29/2007 3:43:23 AM >

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The greatest fear of the ruling class is that some day
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RE: Molding a slave - 6/29/2007 5:05:46 AM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1711
Status: offline 		Howdy smilezz,

Well I read your post first in this thread, then read the original OP, then read the true/true/true post.  Then read your post again, and laughed.   Looks like to me she is bragging about being 24/7 with a Gorean man, and intimating that unless it's a 24/7 relationship it's not "true".  

Speaking of which...how many hours left?????

~winks~

Liz

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/29/2007 5:27:18 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		*grinz* at Liz

That is kind of the impression i got also Ma'am........you just put it out there better than i did. 

As far as how many hours?  Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....let's see if i can dig that up.  Why yes.........yes i can  *beamz*

32 Days 18 Hours 33 Minutes 10 Seconds

Have an outstanding day!

~smilezz~


_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/29/2007 5:35:07 AM   
ownedkitten


Posts: 200
Joined: 4/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smilezz
32 Days 18 Hours 33 Minutes 10 Seconds


greetings smilezz,

Can I just say:  woot!

Grace & Fire,
caitriona


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RE: Molding a slave - 6/29/2007 6:09:51 AM   
Anarrus


Posts: 475
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aytinathsiceain

the true molding only occurs when the true kijira is with the true Gorean Master on a daily bases as we as slaves are never truely molded even then as it is a daily learning task each day this girl should know as she is with her Gorean Master 24/7 Master says the true molding takes place when sub/slave has no experience when one has experience the Master should only polish and hone the skills of His slave


I'd rather falsely mold any day o' the week.
True molding has just become so cost prohibitive these days.
Throat spray to ease the pain from incessantly barking commands and Ben-gay to ease shoulder pain incured while weilding the whip add up to much expense rather fast.
And that damn slave honer and polish has gone outta site at the local market!

Be well

Anarrus the cheap


< Message edited by Anarrus -- 6/29/2007 6:10:38 AM >

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/29/2007 7:11:11 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

Took what aytinathsiceain said to mean:

That when a Man and woman find their "true" soulmate (often seen as "the one")..then the developement of the girl is never put into a light of finalization (as in molded..job complete).

If a slave is coming from some background experience..then she is not raw, and doesn't require basics 101 but maybe just alittle reshaping and then ongoing maintenance. If she is raw then basics apply (as in getting the right ingredients mixed together) before shaping and maintenance can occur.

Ultimately the depth of all this is difficult to make happen without the under the same roof workspace. It is afterall what hears the most from persons..this is their desire, want, need to be together in body. Must be a reason for that.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/29/2007 7:48:27 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:


Does "molding" mean remaking a slave? And if it does, then does it matter which girl a man chooses as his own other than one he can completely make over? Is a girl that empty canvas on which a man will create his own design and desire from scratch?


The scuplture is there, but only the ruff need be chipped away, molded, and then displayed per se in its ulimate beauty, of its true self, and pleasures.


Rapture

(in reply to aeaa)
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RE: Molding a slave - 6/30/2007 1:54:53 AM   
FrankAr


Posts: 602
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings aeaa,

I don't mould the slave, I just take the shit and crap out of her mind and her actions.  I mould her in a way that she can walk down the street with her head held high and still be a slave.

Some slaves do have too much crap within their mind from previous Masters and Doms, and it does cloud their judgement.  Also their actions that have been guided into them from previous Masters and Doms might be good for her, but as I would see it from outside of her skin, I will take the actions out of her life.

The mind set might be the always trying to think of something to please the Master.  Let us face it, that can't always happen and so guide the slave to not think like that.....my type of thinking.  This has the slave waking up to a new day without any inhibitions and so this does lead to a brighter day and start to it, then in trying to think of ways that she might fail in.

The physical aspect will lead me to her writing on the net, not in having her think that I would edit it, just that the thought process would come first before fingers flying across the screen.  Another physical aspect would be for the slave to just be herself in her body shape.  I have talked with many a slave, in real life and over the phone and yet they still think that a Master or Dom would prefer a thin slave.  Get the  slave to physically be within herself.  I mean she can still be guided to loose weight, if she is 80 kilos over her height / weight ratio, but if she is within 20 kilos of her height / weight ratio then so be it.  If she looks good with it, then let her be....but then make sure she WEARS the right colours......just chuckles right now.

Be well.

Frank Ar.


< Message edited by FrankAr -- 6/30/2007 1:57:56 AM >

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Even the softest whisper can be heard in the loudest group....Frank H.

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/30/2007 6:42:31 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

How much "molding" do men do, and is it something they consider before they collar a girl? 
 
A man who thinks he can make anything out of any girl is just thinking out of inexperience, and has another thing coming, as the saying goes.  With experience, a man learns that each girl is unique, with her own potentials to realize and challenges to overcome.  He might get better with time at seeing the potential in a girl, and estimating the effort on his part that will be required to realize it, but it's never an exact science, and there are sure to be suprises and setbacks along the way.
 
In the case of a Gorean girl, there are two distinct classes of "molding" that have to occur.  One is learning the inividual preferences of her master, and the other is bringing her to understand and accept her place as a Gorean slave in general.  When a girl finds herself a slave in a Gorean household, she is in many ways in a foreign country, where the notions of morality, fairness, love, and romance that she grew up with no longer apply.  It will be only natural for her to try to apply and argue for the standards that she knows to some extent.
 
How successfully a girl makes the transition depends greatly on how well her master has done so himself.  If he is still caught between Gorean morality and the morality of the popular culture around us, it won't be all that hard for his new slave, especially if she is strong-willed and intelligent, to convince him that he is being unjust in expecting her to accept the place of a slave.  The end result is often that she ends up being a slave in name only, and in reality has assumed the role of wife or girlfriend in the household, and will expect to be treated equitably as one by popular, rather than Gorean, standards.
 
Gorean kajirae are not cookie-cutter copies of a specific ideal.  They are individual women, to be enjoyed as such.  The "molding" that a new slave girl must undergo isn't about making her into someone she is not.  It is about making a Gorean slave of who she is.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 6/30/2007 6:44:48 AM >

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Leonidas

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/30/2007 6:53:31 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Greetings,

In many of the Men i speak with one of the first concepts they speak about when they determine if a woman may be someone they want to keep as a slave is the concept of "potential."  Does she have the potential of becoming what he wishes her to be to him concept.  I have had Men who based on their discussions with me want what i call "off the rack" slaves.  They don't really want to do a lot of work with her to have her become what they want.  So they want an off the rack girl who as i think the OP utilized closely resembles what they already want in their minds, and so the "work" entailed in training her is simply alterations to get the fit just right.  There are other Men who literally are willing to "remake" a woman into what he wants her  to be.  However, these Men know the work HE has to do to make this happen as well as putting his priority many times into what it takes to make her what he desires in a slave. 

I don't think any Man believes a grown woman is an empty canvas, but many Men the latter of the Men i described may see the potential to either strip the already full canvas and start over, or he sees what he has as an "empty" canvas because what is already there becomes part of the canvas. 

So many times, based on speaking with Men over the last couple years, it depends on the Man on whether he sees molding as adjusting what is already there, or completely remaking a woman.  Sometimes the Man is both with one slave he molds her with adjusting to his personal wishes and another he remakes. 

i think a lot of it also depends on the woman, and as i said her potential to settle into the type of Master he is (i.e. off the rack to build on what is there for alteration to suit him, or a remaking Man who wants to dig his hands into the clay and work it from scratch).  Some women work better with a certain man.  I gravitate towards the remakers usually. I do fully believe it matters what type of woman he chooses.  I think this is usually because of my love of reinvention of myself, but i don't do it well if left to my own devices, but do well when its for someone else, so i know a Man who is willing to do the work of remaking so to speak will also be fulfilling a need in me for reinvention for another.  If the girl isn't mallable enough for a Man to remake her into what he wishes her to be, it could very well lead to heartache and misery on both ends.  IF a girl needs the attention and hands on of a remaker but she finds herself owned by a adjust her, it could very well lead continuous battle for control because of her preconceived ideas that can't be eliminated without a complete remake of her understanding of slave

I have yet to come across a Man who actually wants to give a woman a lobotomy to recreate her as a woman and a person.  When i think of remaking of a woman by a Master, i simply think of his remaking her as a slave, not giving her a lobotomy so all of her personality and what makes her her and an individual woman is removed.  I think they look at a owman's potential to be a slave to them for their needs, wants, and desires and some women are too much work for certain Men but they would be completely at home with a different type of Man.  Its all about finding a connection of able toos.

angel 

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 6/30/2007 7:10:09 AM >

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/30/2007 6:59:00 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		You state, "A man who thinks he can make anything out of any girl is just thinking out of inexperience, and has another thing coming, as the saying goes.  With experience, a man learns that each girl is unique, with her own potentials to realize and challenges to overcome.  He might get better with time at seeing the potential in a girl, and estimating the effort on his part that will be required to realize it, but it's never an exact science, and there are sure to be suprises and setbacks along the way."
 
However, you state, "How successfully a girl makes the transition depends greatly on how well her master has done so himself.  If he is still caught between Gorean morality and the morality of the popular culture around us, it won't be all that hard for his new slave, especially if she is strong-willed and intelligent, to convince him that he is being unjust in expecting her to accept the place of a slave."

This would denote with experience he then can make that girl ...as you otherwise stated could not occur.
 

"In the case of a Gorean girl, there are two distinct classes of "molding" that have to occur.  One is learning the inividual preferences of her master, and the other is bringing her to understand and accept her place as a Gorean slave in general.  When a girl finds herself a slave in a Gorean household, she is in many ways in a foreign country, where the notions of morality, fairness, love, and romance that she grew up with no longer apply.  It will be only natural for her to try to apply and argue for the standards that she knows to some extent."

"It is about making a Gorean slave of who she is."

Unlearn what society has otherwise taught her..(and him ) and be in her natural state as with him.


Rapture

< Message edited by Rapture -- 6/30/2007 7:00:15 AM >

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/30/2007 8:09:24 AM   
Kuldan


Posts: 52
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with Leonidas, here.

There are certain aspects of personality that can be changed, while other aspects (such as 'The Big Five': extraversion, neuroticism, openness to experience, conscientiousness and agreeableness) are very resistant to attempts at changing them in a person, they remain stable throughout the entire lifetime, for the most part.

Which means to state, unless one controls every action of a given person and thus turns them into a robot, one must accept that ones ability to change another persons personality and behavior can only go so far. There are limits to that ability, which are not located in the Manipulators (read Masters, in this case) field of influence.

Thus, realizing what one *can* change in a given person and what one *cannot* change should be a must before one sets out to try and change anything, only to find out in the process that one gets frustrated by trying to move something that continually won't budge.

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/30/2007 8:48:25 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings Goreans,

I agree Kuldan; and Leonidas is usually pretty close to the mark. That being said and in the hope to not sound simply repetative I'll try to make a short post for a change.

It would seem the greater majority of females are submissive, and surely with the proper inspiration they can find that little slut inside. If a girl is destine to become a man's property, it is well within her to be such. I feel it is little more than guiding her to the disciplines, desires, new freedom of heart/mind and borderless limits the slave girl has before her.

Like the clay, the vessel was always within the substance. It required the potters wheel and his skillful hands to simply assist the process. It is also surely evident that within each work of art, the artist has left his own personable impression.

Or something like that.

Live well,

Bull

< Message edited by xBullx -- 6/30/2007 9:38:34 AM >

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Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/30/2007 9:18:44 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 7242
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		Greeting aea,
 
I have to marvel at some of the questions that get asked. Are there are lot of nominal "Goreans" out there indulging control fetishes in the name of Gor? I was pleased that Leonidas, correctly, put the word "molding" in quotation marks and stated the obvious (?) realities. Slave girls are taught many things, but the only thing that gets molded in the books is salt.
 
IWYW,
 
Kirata
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/30/2007 9:19:31 AM >

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/30/2007 10:41:45 AM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters,
Greetings girls,
 
aea would like to thank each person who has answered her questions.  It has helped her quite a bit in considering this topic and not that it matters, but she does find that her own thinking wasn't that far away from what the consensus in this thread seems to be.
 
she greatly appreciates the time and thought taken by those who have written responses.
 
-aea is editing to add just this small statement.  her thanks seem to be inadequate. Some very thought provoking words and things-that-makes-her-tingle have been said by men in this thread.  It has made a difference in her thinking about more than a topic that seemed only a curiosity when she first wrote it. she wishes she could more adequately express what that means to her, Masters.-

aea wishes you well.
 

< Message edited by aeaa -- 6/30/2007 10:52:18 AM >

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RE: Molding a slave - 6/30/2007 10:45:44 AM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Kirata,
 
aea has encountered more than one man who has mistaken "control" for "mastery."  she has also met more than one female who has been owned by such a man or who has also known these sorts of men. Some of these experiences within the "Gorean realm," some not.
 
Having discussed this topic with a friend recently, it got aea to thinking.  Of course, the word "molding" could be replaced by many other words, in aea's thinking it seemed most apropos at the time, Master.
 
she wishes you well.

(in reply to Kirata)
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