RE: Just one man's thoughts on Gor...

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RE: Just one man's thoughts on Gor... - 7/11/2007 9:10:40 AM

pagansub77

Posts: 137
Joined: 3/5/2005
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<fastreply>

Greetings Master Bull,
Greetings to Masters, Free and slaves,
Thank You for sharing Your thoughts, Master Bull. Fascinating reading and perhaps some keys to understanding Master and His ways. The ways of Gor are still very new to this one. If it makes sense though, she has found a freedom in her slavery already. Very much looking forward to following this thread and the thoughts of the Masters.

Well Wishes,
pagan

_____________________________

ps77

In the end everything will be okay.
If everything is not okay, then it's not the end.
Madness takes its toll...exact change only

(in reply to xBullx)

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RE: Just one man's thoughts on Gor... - 7/12/2007 6:44:18 AM

RPutnamJr

Posts: 168
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline

Tal Bull and others,

Although Bull and I have gone head to head occassionally, especially with his hijacking of threads at times, I would like to say that I do respect what he has to say and offer. I'm glad for once that he decided to start his own thread instead of hijacking another.

As some have stated and pointed out the caste system on Gor, is it natural or acquired. I would argue both and neither. Its kinda like asking a homosexual if they are born that way or whether they learn to be gay. The caste system on Gor brings order to the community just as the hierarchy of men over women brings order to the relationship between men and women. Without order be it natural or otherwise on Gor what would you have? A society much like our own full of decay and decadence which we now have here on Earth, with everybody doing their own thing in society not caring about the effects of what they do upon their fellow man and society as a whole.

Some people think that being Gorean is kinda like being social conservatives. I would say being Gorean is more like the Southern Gentleman prior to the Civil War. After all the Southern Gentleman cherished the women under his care and provided for the needs of his slaves, all within a code of honor.

Most slave owners did not beat their slaves because they were property and to damage property would be like someone nowdays going out and hitting their car with a baseball bat. Nobody truely wants to damage their property, but there are always exceptions to the rule. Southerners at the time when touring northern factories were astonished at how poorly the workers were treated commenting that they would never treat their slaves so poorly. I would not argue that a slave's life in the South was easy after all they were just property as slaves. But one could make the arguement that the free northern factory worker was just as much a slave to the factory owner as the slave was to the slave owner.

I would also like to point out the sense of Honor in the South at the time. Honor for one's god, family, community, state, and country as a whole. These same principles in Gorean terms are honor for one's homestone, caste, and ones self. Gorean society is held together as a whole based on certain rules and beliefs that form an honor code by which to live by. Some of those beliefs are might makes right, not enslaving women of one's own city, men are the natural dominance over all women, all women are subserviant to all men, man is the ruler of his own home, the list goes on and on.

We can all agree as Goreans that we rule our own home and to hell what other's might think of it. We definately defend our homestones. And if we were ever threatened I would think we would rise to the occassion to defend what we think of as our rights as men. We rule with the power given to us or taken, that is our right, but with that right comes responsibility to use that power wisely and justly and not to abuse the power given to us as men.

I played things once according to how vanilla society thought things should be and all it got me was heartache and financial disaster. Now I do things my way, limited only by the honor code upon which I live by. I have retaken back my right as a man to make my own decisions and not be subserviant to others. Especially the whims of women After all they are just property. But even property needs to be taken care of and cared for just like you would your car, regular check-ups, cleaning, maintenance, etc. Lucky for my car it cannot be spanked when it acts up and a swift kick in the bumper does nothing for it, A nice wax job though does wonders for it though.

Peace be to you all,

Robert Putnam

(in reply to pagansub77)

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RE: Just one man's thoughts on Gor... - 7/25/2007 8:52:04 AM

Terrah

Posts: 372
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline

Tal Everyone

Bull I have to admit I have re-read your posting a couple times now, using and open mind to determine what it is you are saying here.. I find it highly interesting.

But are we in any of these not faced with the manly bias of the author and his perception of the truths? For the point of saying, I do not personally replace my spiritual beliefs with the Gorean novels. I revere the novels for their values and virtues with its characters.

I would have to say no to that question, rather you are faced with your intrepretation of his writing as in any book or thing you read. It is how we percieve it to our own understanding. I do have a question on your comment about your spiritual belief's however, that being if you are a follower of the Gorean novels and you try to adhere to that sense, doesn't it also affect your spiritual belief's if you live something a particular way, doesn't that also change everything about your persona as well? I mean not to say you are not who you were when you first read about Gor, or that you are more man for having done so, but adhereing to the idea that you live Gorean, would that not also have some affect on your spiritual side as well? Afterall you reverie the values and virtues, so having them admired doesn't that too have an affect on your spiritual side? Spiritual is not just about Divinity as I am sure you are aware is why I am asking.

Should we than reject an attempt to claim Gorean as a lifestyle title? Perhaps it is not all that ridiculous. Did humanity as a descriptive term exist before someone from history declared us human?

I like your analogy of the history of Earth, who determines what is something called? I reckon the answer is whoever calls it that and it sticks. But I want to remind you that a tree is a tree, it has simularities to the tree that are not present in an onion for example, both have leaves, both roots, both mature in the ground but the onion is not a tree. In fact you can eat a tree, but I wouldn't recommend it as it probably wouldn't taste as good as an onion. We all catagorize things to make it more understandable and easier to communicate and in our attempts to understand what another is speaking of. Saying a Alpha man is Gorean is not correct, but saying one has to be Alpha to be Gorean is equally not correct. Not everyone Alpha is Gorean not all Gorean men are Alphas. Yet to determine how to place a persona as Gorean, why would we do that? I think it is what someone chooses to call themselves to relate a belief of their inner core values and asperations in a certain area to be able to communicate with another person of the same basic belief's it is a way to determine if you have a common ground to work upon for communication's sake. Somewhat like a club. For instance a boy scout speaking with another boy scout from another troop has commonality, they can speak about the differences of the troops they belong to and still be able to get along having a common ground and both be boy scouts, and still be able to know there is a common factor in their being. Now a boy who is not a boy scout, never having any relation in his mind to what that is would not be considered to have the same commonality to be a part of the boy scouts now would he? This is very basic, but it also shows that there are some who read the books and know about the message within and there are those who do not. One chooses to call himself Gorean and another has no idea what that is. It doesn't mean they cannot converse, but certainly not much about what the books contain or how one might view themselves "living" Gorean. I do not see Gor as a way to live, but more a common ground to build upon a set of principles and ideals that were present in the books to understand and admire to give others common ground to associate with. Just as a boy scout has rules of behaviors so do Goreans, or Christians, or anyone who tries to adhere to a set of rules or principles in their own life, be it whatever they call it.

To be Gorean solely is impossible, you don't live on the planet. You are many things, but mainly a person from Earth. We have to adhere to the fact that is not going to change and being well grounded upon this planet. Not to infer you are not. You made mention of the Indians, the different tribes that Norman used or the Greeks or Romans or whomever another culture he spoke of was like that of Earth. He has no where else to go, he is from Earth as well, he knows of the history and showed it in a set of books that are fictional in nature and he used the cultures to set a stage for different characters in settings he knew about already. Changing them to suit his story. OK.. so what? Does that mean there is a message in all cultures he is trying to protray to others in some way that we can understand? I doubt it. I think he is trying to show that beyond whatever culture you are from, there is a commonality to adhere to, something that makes one believe in a standard set by another through this genre and what you get from it is what you get.

I don't think there is so much philosophy to determine another culture here on Earth that is solely Gorean. I believe that there is a common ground for us to look at and admire and attempt to relate that feeling, principle, belief's, and accountability to. I think Norman has seen the future coming in a sense and tries to bring a standard back that we were losing, and as time goes on, it's losing even more. Integrity, honesty, being forthright, being helpful, being true to not only yourself but others as well have all gone down the tubes. Yet in a set of books, they are present and we are shown a set of values beyond M/s to adhere to and try to compliment in our own lives. Yet how many do that? I think that is our common ground, where the books have brought those people of a like mind together beyond what M/s is in there.

We have a world where honor and nobility and faith in mankind are fading virtues and yet within a lifestyle that these measure seem to me to reign supreme, we spend no time on truly manly issues. Perhaps that is why the outsiders see Gor as only being about the M/s concept? It has been said that many Gorean principles aren’t practical outside of our private homes, to that I say bullshit.

I agree with what you are saying here as I have just said it as well. I don't think the "lifestyle" is the correct useage however, because what you are talking about is not a lifestyle, but a deeper more complicated source of personal agenda. I do think however that you are right, we should talk about these things and not what is or what is not Gorean lifestyle or compare ourselves with how we live, but more in how we accomplish this.

I wish you well,

Terrah

(in reply to xBullx)

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