xBullx
Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
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Tal Goreans and those with an interest,
I spent last week debating and arguing on the forums and in emails with folks. I have also been guilty of the thread robbery and hijack, so I’m going to put a few things out here to hopefully construct an understanding. I am sure I will inspire a tad bit of thought, some angst and perhaps in the end, some reason for Gorean discussion beyond how to “fuck” a slave.
If you’re a slave and only going to bitch, walk the hell on by this thread, if you’re confused and have no idea what the hell you are, then choose your words carefully and hopefully men will join this thread and it will be a thread worthy of manly thought and discussion. This also seems to go well with the 7/ 7/ 07 theme. And no not Al Gore’s version, but the save nature as a Gorean would relate to it.
I assume most have a basic perception of my thought process. I attempt to live as a Gorean man. The fact is, I try to live this way in all I do, everyday. I have tried to impart the values I see as Gorean upon my sons, and my friends that are lost and struggling. I even coach my mom, and yes, she has heard from my very lips, I am a Gorean.
What does that mean to me? Note: I didn’t say what is Gorean, but rather what is it to me. Sure it is a lifestyle derived from a series of fictional novels. There’s the big “no shitter”. While I hate comparing that premise to the Bibles or Koran. Or even the Pharaohs perception of their own personal history, I have heard it said that perhaps these sources also maintain their own fiction. But are we in any of these not faced with the manly bias of the author and his perception of the truths? For the point of saying, I do not personally replace my spiritual beliefs with the Gorean novels. I revere the novels for their values and virtues with its characters. The novels speak to me in no way about a divinity beyond our manly existence.
In that regard, it is what the reader brings forth from it’s text versus the factual content of the story itself. What does it matter if there is any statistical validity to a text so long as its message is received in a worthwhile manner? The Gorean novels it would seem to inspire strength of character and virtue in men and strength in purpose and virtue in women. If this does not appeal to you, than move on, this message was not meant for you. It is a selective process and no one is to blame for their own personal tastes and instincts, but rather respected for such.
I have no delusion that Gorean is how all humans should live their lives, hell we can’t even agree amongst Goreans on issues one would think simple enough to comprehend. But there is actually a practical purpose for some of these personal and social struggles. I believe honest discussion and debate furthers us as a society on the whole.
I could care less about what page number Rask first used Eleanor, or when it was he offered her personal freedom, what chapter he dropped the bag of coins to Bosk or how many coins it was. The fact is, what should in my opinion matter to what I have come to identify as a “living” Gorean, is that it happened and what was the significance of the event as it pertains to a man living on this planet, in this society. How can I apply the lessons and actions that these characters lived by to my daily existence. I assume we are here discussing this lifestyle in a forum that demands this is about more than role-play (thanks 6, for getting back on the ball, we were all getting a little distracted with our own agendas).
What is important to me may not be so to everyone else and in that regard I’m betting we, that live as Goreans, may have our different groups in reality, outside this chat venue. Hell, some of us Alpha’s may never want to actually meet outside of here. The male ego can be one of this worlds most fragile commodities. But the fact is its good if we visit and support each other in mutual growth. Yes, we’re gonna butt heads at times, but that’s just life, and the proverbial “swords” will in the end settle the issue. That is how a pecking order is established and that is a natural condition.
Building on that comment what is Gor about? At least in my mind, what would determine a man is living as a Gorean, or just living? Now, I have brought up Iron Bear a few times lately, it stems from his altering his lifestyle affiliation. Did he find that Gor no longer fit what he was, or perhaps he decided he wasn’t able to live up to what could or should be Gorean. You will have to ask him that. He is more than able to answer that question on his own. But I have countless times pondered his action.
Is Gor simply living by the assertion of freedom? Being what you want to be and basically being only accountable unto yourself? Is it something more? Was the Apache, the Arapahoe, and Sioux warrior about a similar premise? What about the Mongol or the Barbarians of the Dark Ages? Would you not assert the same principles to the western US trappers and even the outlaws of the old west? So weren’t all these men and their charge also Goreans? Should we say that all the past cultures that Norman “borrowed” his story lines from as the actual Goreans? Well, that is as ridiculous as the idea that I am an Asian American, I have no eastern blood running through my veins. I may admire the disciplines and culture, but I am not able to proclaim myself as they.
Should we than reject an attempt to claim Gorean as a lifestyle title? Perhaps it is not all that ridiculous. Did humanity as a descriptive term exist before someone from history declared us human? Did the Oak tree stand as its own entity prior to a man who declared it wasn’t a Hickory tree? What would be the difference in these trees to the average witness? Do we consider the size perhaps, the leaves shape, and the texture of its bark? These are both free living trees and yet we see them by a different name. Does that not stem from their unique qualities and though a tree may not have tradition or social practices as we identify them, do they not know where to land their own pollen, do their individual characteristics not come forth establishing their own identity.
What is it that makes a Gorean unique? Recent threads have asked us to compare ourselves with various lifestyles and in the end it may help to understand a little about each other, I have yet to see a unified sense of what is Gorean and how can you spot one by his various actions, what makes him a mighty Oak or a sapling of the Cottonwood. A Gorean is that in how he lives, the books outline practices, and while we can’t always live within the context of the book, we can live as close as possible, within the laws of this land, explore beyond what serves our personal purposes.
My favorite contemplation when I’m not sure about Gorean application here in this life is to sit on the front steps of my home and imagine I’m sitting with one of two characters in the book. My two favorites are Kamchak and Jason. Kamchak was depicted as a deep and thoughtful man; he understood and was open to the world at large around him. I believe he would always consider life beyond what simply affected him personally. And Jason because he would understand what we face in daily existence here. He also grew to become a Gorean, to understand the man within him, the man that in my opinion, nature intended him to be. He also grew to be a thinker and seen the world to be much more than what was important to just him.
Imagine describing the western practice of marriage and it’s legalities to Kamchak and then asking him if he would marry his slave? While I in my mind it would take a while before you could ask him another question, he seems to like to laugh when in a good mood. I’m sure that though marriage is not a Gorean word, it is similar to one of their practices. But again, this is my opinion and not a set Gorean condition, of course I as the rest of you am judging actions of others and their attempt to manipulate or impress their views on the public at large.
Imagine now asking Jason about the slavery within a woman, and if he should allow her to determine her place with him. Of course he has come to understand what is important in nature and to create ultimate harmony a man should by his own hand attempt to live within the laws of nature as he feels them to be. But is it Gorean to compromise his position over a woman to simply appease natures call in her? It may be a solid practice, but is it a Gorean practice? I say no. It is a man’s world in the eyes of a Gorean. Therefore the worldly things within our charge are ours to rein sovereign over.
(((((take note to those outside of the Gorean sphere. I am not attempting taking away your right to live as you do, this thread is about what is Gorean to me, or to men that claim that lifestyle, all are welcome to comment and grow in understanding, but this is not a, “what is the best lifestyle thread?” Thanks for understanding. I think it is time that the discussion start as to what is Gor on Earth or whatever we should call it, we should start to form a consistent line of thinking, something with positive substance and credibility beyond a website describing what Norman must have thought on this page or just settle for the idea that Gor is just a fantasy in all our minds, whether we are “living” Goreans or role-players))))))
I know this is a long post and many have already stopped reading and others have become angered by thinking I’m pointing directly at them, but I’m only bring a highlighter to points I have seen over and over. It is obvious that we won’t be making slavery legal and who gives a shit about that, isn’t this about a bigger picture. We have a world where honor and nobility and faith in mankind are fading virtues and yet within a lifestyle that these measure seem to me to reign supreme, we spend no time on truly manly issues. Perhaps that is why the outsiders see Gor as only being about the M/s concept? It has been said that many Gorean principles aren’t practical outside of our private homes, to that I say bullshit. I know several women that admire the Gorean men in their lives and, do to those influences and their personal values they have as women of Gor, they have given up jobs that were more lucrative to adhere more closely to principles that they hold dear, Gorean principles. I know both of these women and know they live as Goreans, in all ways on all days. I also know men that practice their businesses and carry out their daily existence holding their Gorean thoughts and practices close to their hearts and conducts day after day. I sold my interest in a corporation that had me earning lots of money and started anew due to these same principles and reasons. I’m hopeful I and these women are simply a small piece of a larger puzzle of Goreans able to make the same claims. Those men and women that value their honor and integrity ahead of greed and other detrimental qualities.
It’s time in my mind to establish credibility, practicality and consistency to the greater degree. At this point Gor is but a confusing bottle of words and chaos that is most likely the reason more have not taken to its ideology. Ok, enough for now, I have the ball rolling. Will we drive the ball to a goal or simply kick it aimlessly around the field?
I’m sure this discussion should extend well beyond Collarme and in no way am I claiming any sense of moral high ground or expertise over others. Be it personally or thise websites Gorean population. This thread as it pertains to my comments is describing my opinions, and I hope to inspire some beneficial discussion and maybe even solve a problem or two. So let's begin a more pointed discussion and move beyond merely viewing Gor as a self serving entity.
Live Gorean,
Bull
_____________________________
Live well,
Bull
I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...
"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."
Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.
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Just one man's thoughts on Gor... - 
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