xBullx
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Joined: 10/8/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jahnaca
Greetings Bull
I don't recall saying it shouldn't be defined. In fact I believe I said definitions are actually important. We should also as a community agree on what those definitions are. Not the pick which group you like better method we are currently using.
So, now you like definitions, opposed to discover your very own definitions. I have a hard time trying to see where you are coming from....Here is a definition for you from me, my definition that is, Gorean woman are not allowed the fickle I am not sure what I want at this time attitude so common outside of Gorean women. I suppose you can understaqnd the headache now?
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Coming up with said definitions is not just a matter of picking a line out of the books either, it should be accurately supported, Gor is a man's world neither supports or condemns a personal definition. It in facts allows men to pick what ever it is they happen to enjoy. Your boiling it down again to come what pleases you definition of what is Gorean or not. Look at the marriage issue. Some men support it, others don't two fragmented Gorean ideals are born. You say that is right, they say they are right. Which is it?
I stopped to respond quick, so if this is less than literary prefection, ohhh well.
I don't believe that I'm the one that loves to post quotes from books, I do offer very pratical application examples of my living as a Gorean, hey and get this, I have witnesses acknowledged within this very forum, that can vouch as to how I live. Can you register this claim? Gor is a man's world, supported by the books in being as such...The claims some of these purported men of Gor make is not always supported as well though, so your aurgument with that point fell short. I never make a claim I can't back up at least to soime degree. As for the marriage issue, as I have stated it, as it pertains to my beliefs and how I will recognize it. I'm right, for how I see it. And I do believe when men stop trying to make Gor on Earth a name only, they'll understand. So if you ask me, I'm right, this is where your freedom to choose a position comes to be, but do better than your doing with it if you expect to convince me otherwise. And don't give me the I'm hard headed or full of myself, within the last month alone, I have allowed the views of slaves to make me take note of an issue and change in part a stance as to me position, so get it right or stop whining. If I was a man prick, I doubt a slave could be allowed to influence my thoughts.
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Now pointing me to the direction of the BDSM community is based what prey tell. An attempt perhaps to discredit something I said alluding to the fact I am what a domme, subbie brat? When have I ever given the indication that is something I do/want or other wise wish to add to my life? Again I will reiterate, I am not, have never been, nor even remotely want to be part of the BDSM community. In point of fact I am in the minority as most Goreans come from the BDSM community, I have never been part of it, ever! I am not, nor ever have been, nor will ever desire to do as they do or live as they live. In point of fact I avoid most so called Goreans because they are nothing more then BDSM folk with Gorean kink added. I am not here to find a slave, don't want a slave. Not here to find a master or companion, not even a Dom. Not into pain is pleasure, foot worship or any other such kink. So tell me again, which part of BDSM do you honestly think I would fit in with?
I based it only as a method to help you solve your confusion, don't read to deep into it, there was no secret message, if you don't like the way a Gorean views something, why as a woman in a society that embraces its men leading it would you want to make this world where it is less than so. I had nothing of the mind that you were a Domme, you haven't witnessed the discipline in you required to be as such. And I have no opinion of you as a subbie brat, it hadn't even crossed my mind until you said as much. Do you hear that often, perhaps a guilty conscience as you are trying to establish a top side in this dicussion? Most Gorean women, and a couple I value as much more astute than you can imagine, have a much more feminine tact when speaking with a man, that is also a Gorean trait. You aren't bad mind you, but I have a suspicion that you know what you're up to. Do remember though that BDSM does have other various lifestyles. That was my only reference, hell had you not brought the conversation to yourself I wouldn't have had to express my thoughts about you at all. I don't know what part of any lifestyle you would belong to, once again, that is the reason I need asprin, you go on and on, and I see no direction and no credible foundation. Perhaps your man could help you find direction.
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Nor have I ever said being Gorean gives me a bad taste. That is your assumption and incorrect. If the community gives me a bad taste and that time will only come when it is a shallow mockery of what is in the actually books, I would certainly remove myself from the public community as something I do not agree with. I can never nor would I want to change the ethos that I have developed over the years. I do not need community to pat me on the back in support to be what I am or believe what I believe. In fact I wouldn't be the first Gorean to leave public life because of utter disgust. The list is a mile long at the moment and it continues to grow. You know why it grows, because Gor is a lifestyle where your accountable as a free person. I take that accountability very seriously. There is only so far you can bend.
See that is part of the problem here, I don't know what you think, you have nothing you commit to, that I can see. You claim to be Gorean, yet I hear you complain that it is confused and uncommitted. Perhaps instead of playing the Tatrix you should spend more time listening and less time telling. I suggest talking with Kimveri she has almost no confusion in anything, I assure you she can offer you a directional guide, she can be hard to meet in the middle with at times, but she is not confuced. I assure you that. So you determine what is a shallow mockery versus an in depth mockery? You are judging what is Gor, yet don't like it when I do the same? At least that by Gorean premise would be MY role. Though I will stress, I have never told, other than by poor wording a time or two, what anyone MUST call or define anything as Gorean. Do what you want, I reallydon't care. I know beyond this forum, you will most certainly never cross my path. As for leaving if it get's bad within the community, you see that is your right and most likely a proper stance for a woman, to leave the public venue if it goes astray. I am afforded as a Gorean man no such luxury. If I have values, codes and responsibilities , as a warrior must defend the home stone, there is no hiding for me. NONE......... I have to stand and hold my ground, I must attempt to define my life, and stand as an example to others; though I swear and this is defineable by my friends, I strive hard to not get to full of myself, I work very hard to understand each persons ideals, even yours. But if I want Gor to be what I claim, I living breathing entity within this society ON EARTH, I can't tuck my head in the sand, and that is why I chose this venue to further my hopes. The thought base is wide and I can learn from great minds beyond simply those that are Gorean. It should in the end, I hope, make me a better man. One that if even not worth following, I am worth standing along side of, but other men. You speak of accountability, but I have no idea what you really think, I can grasp your defintions, you're all over the place as "I" read it. Hense again, the asprin, but how in the hell do I hold you accountable, if you have no clear position. I have them, they're the ones you like to address. So if the list is Gorean of those that have run from the public venue, I am of the mind it is not a list of Goreans.
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BTW my legal marriage has little to do with anything. Many Goreans are married yet choose to call it something like companionship. Even you have tied the two together. Some even forget to mention that little tid bit of information. I on the other had have the honesty to call it what it is, and not try to deny what it I have. I have further publically stated out of respect for the tradition of Free Companionship, I won't miss label it, it is what it is, and I can't have both. I acknowledge it and accept it. It is my responsibility to live with it. (Thus I have even superceded your interpretation of what is Gorean). What makes you think my integrity is any less on other subjects?
Perhaps to you your marriage has little to do with anything, but that is not how I see mine. I have never denied or dismissed the point I am married to Natalie, hell I'm thrilled and proud of that fact, I love that woman to pieces. I made a commitment to her and I WILL honor that with my very life. It is my sacred bond and in the eyes of friends and family 21 years ago I took her as my free companion. Now pay attention woman and since you made a point to try and define my thoughts, versus asking them, I'll clue you in here. Natalie is a free woman; Natalie is also my life companion. I married her before I ever had a knowledge that this Gor thing was going on, oh, I had already read two of the novels, But I wasn't a by name Gorean. Marrying your woman is what we did in those days.
But get this, I was a Gorean of sorts with my honor. I have always stood steadfast by my first commitment to my wife and yes, free companion. I made no mockery of Gor by trying to replicate a contract that really wouldn't define my relationship with her, but as the books said, marriage is the closest thing to free companionship and as my wife is a free woman, and my companion and I am talking supposedly with Gorean, I use common terms. Ask yourself if Kamchak had to live on Earth with Aphris and never to return to Gor, would he in the legal means marrying her........perhaps............And I did go thorugh a period where I was looking for more, found BDSM activities first, had fun there to, but it wasn't all there was for me,I needed more and then found Gor. Bingo, that was it, I have saught out good Gorean men, I value their friendship and comradery(sp) beyond anything you will know. Brule, Kar Ragnon, Markibus are some of the finest, straight forward and no nonsense men walking this globe. They are the biggest part of "my" Gor, so lady while you are worrying about slaves and marriage I am thinking about the affairs of men, those affairs that when one day accomplished will solve all your danity female needs. And as I said before, in my opinion, in the end, a Gorean man would never allow a woman that is his property to have legal claim to anything that is his. Just isn't something they'd do....IN MY OPINION. Do with that info what you will.
As for living with something, I don't see you having some moral high ground here, so reign yourself in there Tatrix. As for your integrity, it's as I said earlier, how hard can it be to defend a position of infinity or non existance. What are you exactly, you want to play an active part in the debate, but I state I'm not seeing your point or agenda. You can't compromise your integrity when you have nothing that is seen as concrete. But I have never questioned your integrity anyway. But, if the best you can do is try and talk down to me from some holier than though position? Don'y both talking at all.How can you superceded my interputation of Gor? I can't see how, you didn't even have my interputation right.
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BTW Bull did you actually miss the part where I agreed with Leonidas?
So what does that mean, hell I agree with him much of the time, not all the time, but he's a Gorean. Of course I'd see eye to eye on many things. I missed only the part where he seen that your position and his aren't far apart, but that is his statement not yours. But congradulations, in agreeing with him, you might become a Gorean afterall.
Bull
_____________________________
Live well,
Bull
I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...
"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."
Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.
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