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A Gorean Epiphany


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A Gorean Epiphany - 7/22/2007 7:14:58 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
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A Gorean Epiphany….

Tal Goreans,

There I was riding along on the ole’ John Deere and it occurred to me…

There has been this internal struggle that I have been fighting with the past month. I have been desperately trying to allow within my mind, everyone to have their own vision of Gor. To establish for themselves within the context of what Gor as it is written within the books, those books that we claim to care so much about. While I can understand why someone like Stephan doesn’t trouble himself with the definitions of Gor are as it would it would define him, it did however troubled my deeply when the proposed Goreans would want to discard Gorean customs, practices and identifying premises. Sure there are those that would get us imprisoned within this society, but hell I don’t mean those anyway. I also understand that there would be acceptable trade offs, as in what would translate well enough between what is Gorean and what we can get away with here in our own cultures. Now while I am certain that there are more than just Leonidas out there that concur with myself, none have had either the courage or at least the passion to defend that which is our intended Gor (Home Stone)!!!

You see while riding that tractor and contemplating within the peaceful sounds of the mechanical beast, it occurred to me why this debate of proposed freedom with limitless scope, undistinguished with any boundaries, unguided by any defined customs was taking place. It set within the dimly lit recesses of my mind why anyone claiming to be any one certain thing would ever argue against any and perhaps all its established premises. It fell into two simple words.

I stopped that tractor and looked straight up and hollered, “YOU HAVE GOT TO BE SHIITIN” ME, HOW DAMN SIMPLE COULD IT BE!!!!” It was like the light came on, it was in the end so simple, and there was only this as an answer, just two words. I laughed to myself, and decided I am writing you all one last time on this, latest don’t you dare define to me what my Gor is, debate. So if it seems in the future when you bring this up I am ignoring you, I don’t give a shit, bookmark this page, this thread, carry on until the end of time about your proposed freedoms, those illusions of absolute freedom, they will be simply talk, nothing is free, come live within the depths of my at times terrifying memories and those my sons will have of their own soon enough, and then TELL me about freedom, its cost, some of you know, and those that do will have no argument with my words.

Talk all you want about your philosophies and logic, I find them helpful as well, I love discussing them, but it is within the heart of each man to push away these castration knives, it is within the books and the hearts of noble men that we will define the context of our Gor, something drew us there, it is within the hearts of MASTERS that the Gor (Home Stone) will either survive and flourish, or be crumbled, and vanquished within idle rhetoric and proposed amendments of dilution and infinite meanings.
These two words finally explained it all to me, they took away the confusions that I believe Jahna spoke of some time back, while she tries to define Gor within a society that is nothing but contrary to a Gorean existence (or perhaps beneath the surface it isn’t so far gone). While some try endlessly to affiliate Gorean philosophy with the other great philosophies of those great minds of our past, while we have those that insist that Gor is our last great hope, they in turn wipe away some, not all, but some of its defining points, perhaps not Earth shattering topics, but Gorean points non the less. We can either establish strong and noble customs and honorable examples to pass on to future generations or, by blurring the lines, confusing the definition, that some struggle to erase to allow themselves room to avoid two of the most distinguishing hallmarks within the Gorean definition…………..Responsibility and Accountability……………………………..

If they don’t have to adhere to any base premise or customary static definitions (which there are some, maybe there doesn’t have to be many, but they do exist) of what it is that sets us apart as Goreans these proclaimed protectors of freedoms don’t actually have to maintain any standard, be it high or middle of the pack. There will be unlimited room for apathy or substandard within the Gorean foundation. With these absolute freedoms there is nothing that holds someone accountable to the premises that constitute a man to be Gorean. Gor most certainly must be about something like Nietzsche’s Masters Morality, but if nothing defines it’s identity then no one can be held to a standard. That noble and superior being will never discover his unbound Gorean limits; he will have fallen from a Gorean path that defines his intended direction to simply an endless trail of anyone’s infinity.

Unless that man wish like Stephan to just locate within his person, any man, just so long as it is the one man that he thinks he might be, and then, that is a fair enough conclusion. What brings Stephan to greatness is he works to discover his path and he knew not to call it Gorean, but an undetermined destiny. That in itself is more noble and honest than a man that claims to be something and then attempts to redefine a predefined existence to lend some false sense of credibility to his own lost in the night existence. But take note it is the directive of the Gorean existence with Gorean men that allow him seemingly the best course in his quest. I tell you men, be not afraid of the spiritual dark within you, search your soul, light the fire of the man that you are from within, if the light burns within the colors of Gor, you will have no need to deny its prescribed boundaries, no matter their limits or lack of therein.

Remember when you sit discuss our way or simply sit and think about it, some will be eager to point out that the novels are simply fiction and incomprehensible here on Earth, and while I am inclined to agree there might are those customs or practices that are disallowed in our present society, things in some small ways that do define what it is to be Gorean. There is a defining feature for fiction and reality as well.


I have been accused lately of trying to define for you what Gor is, that couldn’t be further from the truth, only your heart and the books can define that, If I attempted to do it you would turn your back on me and laugh. The remarkable thing is when reality hits and our insecurities are conquered, our personal vanities relinquished, most all Goreans come to the same conclusions of what it is to be Gorean.

When some find it important to tell you that you as a Gorean live a fantasy life and dwell within the pages of a fictional novel, proclaim that which is most obviously an overlooked issue on their behalf. We live as Goreans and strive to achieve that noble and stalwart example of the superior being, just as nature demand we do, so in the end only one thing either defines Gor as fiction or reality, and that my friends is, credibility.

Thanks for taking time to read and hopefully you have done so with an open heart and mind you will discover that these proclamations of a Gorean are helpful to your understanding of Gor and on a personal note, understanding me. If what I have said is too hard for you to live up to, than don’t be surprised when your attempts to be heard to the contrary of Gorean existence fall upon deaf ears. Establish your own credibility, seek your validation within another heart; as for me, I have mine.

Be well Goreans,

Bull

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.
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RE: A Gorean Epiphany - 7/22/2007 7:36:30 PM   
mnottertail


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Tal Bull of the cornfields,

and that is a happy place, IronBear and I used to revel in the proposition that we are glorious pigs of men, and are just as thankful to be so as women are them (if they could just figure that out)  and in the end of time remember, what is carved on your gravestone, that is your final homestone.  Make it the one you want. Nobody else will do it for you.

but it is clearly not Gorian(LOL) to own a John Deere------------think Allis-Chalmers.

Hup


_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to xBullx)
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RE: A Gorean Epiphany - 7/22/2007 8:10:59 PM   
xBullx


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Joined: 10/8/2005
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Tal Hup of the Lakes,

Point taken, I will add that this was not all that was realized within my epiphany, it is simply all I wished to share.. I was hoping that it would at last clarify, right or wrong, my thoughts.

Aren't I special,

Bull

< Message edited by xBullx -- 7/22/2007 8:12:32 PM >


_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: A Gorean Epiphany - 7/22/2007 8:30:57 PM   
charlotte12


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Thank you for sharing your thoughts Bull. I do not claim to be Gorean though i have been lurking on this forum for a while as i find myself drawn to many aspects of Gor. I usually don't post as i'm mostly here to learn but i just wanted to say thank you for sharing your epiphany. Now you have made me think :)

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RE: A Gorean Epiphany - 7/22/2007 8:36:35 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
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Damn, Hup.  That's probably the most profound statement on Home Stone's I've ever heard.

Greetings Bull,

This'll be short; I enjoyed reading your thoughts.  I'll only offer up that forging my own path means holding myself to a higher level of accountability and responsibility than I might if I were content to simply adopt Norman's.  This isn't to say I find Gorean ideals lacking; I wouldn't spend so many hours shootin the shit with you here, if I did.  Rather, it means when I adopt the ideals of another group as my own, I better damn well know what they mean and believe in them wholly.  There's a handful of issues I don't wrap my head around, agree with, or simply like when it comes to Gor (or Goreans?  Is there a difference?) and thus I'm left in much the same path as I was when I was trying to decide if and how I believed in God some ten  years ago.  The answer to God, I found, was simple; believe in something simple, honest, and good.  Life's just a bit more complicated, even if we don't like it, but Responsibility shines not just philosophically, but spiritually for me.  I ultimately decided to throw my weight in with Wicca, for one reason; there's one rule.  "Harm none."  It embodies that very concept; responsibility.  You hurt noone.  Nothing.  You embrace an honest effort to only do and make good things.  You pay for it, when you do or make bad things.  I won't say that's an inherently Gorean value or virtue, but it's a value and virtue I've seen woven deeply into the stories and underlying philosophy.  It's why I believe we have a great deal more in common than not.  It's why I feel comfortable discussing what I think should and should not be.

Regards,

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

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RE: A Gorean Epiphany - 7/22/2007 8:56:33 PM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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Norman was a man, as we all were and are throughout the continuum, it is very easy to improve the proposition, rather than create it.... but we all are wormfood, so the only thing that is possible is to ask what was gained and what was lost------time does not stand still.  It is rather beyond our means to ask whether we are our brothers keeper, unless we have some grasp of who we are and can function in that capacity..........because time---as we understand it, does not flow from present to past. everyone out here, and I know this sounds christamssy and new yearsy, but everyone out here should have a better day as you find it tomorrow than you did to day, no matter how small the measure.

Hup the Fool


_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to Stephann)
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RE: A Gorean Epiphany - 7/23/2007 6:24:03 AM   
GhitaAmati


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Joined: 5/30/2007
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Bull, I wished to thank you for your words on this, for it is something my Sir and I have also been discussing for a long time, I hope you dont mind but I have printing out your words to share with Him when he returns home this evening.

And also...Bull, if you ever find yourself wanting to get rid of that John Deere in order to live more like a "true" Gorean, I will gladly be of service and take it off your hands for you.   *grin*

ghita~

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: A Gorean Epiphany - 7/23/2007 9:46:16 AM   
Jahnaca


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Joined: 8/28/2006
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Greetings Bull

Welcome to the road less traveled.  I think if you ask many of us who claim to be Gorean if they had an epiphany you will find yes, they have and it was only the start of a wonderful journey ahead.  In fact I would guess some have even had further epiphanies as they build upon their understanding and knowledge regarding things Gorean.

You will find as you begin to converse with a greater cross section of Goreans, on opinions regarding what is and what is not Gorean, you will find a lot of divergences.  This will challenge you, as it should.  Generally two paths are taken, those who cling more to pulling out those traditions and customs that resonate with them, and those who dive into the principles surrounding said traditions and customs.  Both roads are fraught with dangers, pitfalls and misdirection.  Ultimately though for those keen enough to keep going, these roads will merge.  They may not be exact overlays of each other but they will be based on the exact same foundations.

Several years ago I had my own epiphany, one that made me look outside of a tiny microcosm of men who dictated to the masses what was and what was not Gorean.  Without a shadow of a doubt these men were indeed very Gorean, one is probably the most plagiarized contemporary writer in our Gorean history.  Another was further labeled the Grandfather of Gor, or the self professed Grand Ubar of things Gorean (this was from those who didn’t like him).  These two men once shared a Home Stone, yet even they did not always agree.  On some points radically different.  Once finding disagreement can and does exist I was faced with the most obvious question, which one is the right one?  My epiphany was, gosh I must find that out, for myself.  
Move to this venue, those men, that forum, that group, this group, him, her, them, all professing to have this great epiphany on what makes their road the only road the true bastion of Gorean thought.  I think at this point you can’t be Gorean unless free women dress in full robes and veils, men of course tunics and sandals, we must have bosk steak every second Thursday of every month that has a “p” in it, along with dancing around with cheese doodles in our ears during the Sardar Faire and drink copious amounts of Beer each Monday night while soaking our feet in a vat of paga.

After all is said and done, my most recent epiphany after discovering not everyone seems to agree, nor want to agree, is this.  Slapping Gor along side your name doesn’t make you any more Gorean then anyone else.  Nor does how many times you say your Gorean and they are not.  Nor does how closely we try to cling to what ever tradition we seem to fancy for the moment (and boy does it vary).  Not even how we have relationships (ie of course how many slaves we have and the current trend of must having an FC to cause that is really truly Gorean).  It’s not how many words from the source text we use.  How much or little we dive into the source material.  See Gor really isn’t in those places at all in totality.  See it is a combination of all things.  One can be Gorean alone on an island.  They can be Gorean in China, they can be Gorean at work in a shoe store.  The underlying principles will guide us towards a pattern of thought and action.  More to the point, it is not simply a matter of what you do, but how you do it, and why.

While I concur, there are limitations regarding all of, I have never denied or try to alter them in point of fact I support them based on my own understanding of said principals and philosophical codes.  Gor isn’t nor has it ever been a come one come all way of living.  Until such time all of us can agree on the ultimate Grand Imperial set of  static set of lists and bars, and said lists are bars are not merely the product of lowest common denominators we will have to grasp;  You are not me, I am not you and sometimes we will agree and other times we won’t.  When faced with such challenges of disagreement, can we personally address our own reasoning why without always looking to someone else to do it for us.  Bull it is easy to look at a page in the book and say, “here it is...gotta do it!”  It is far harder to compare this to that, reason, and come with the principles.  Yes the actions in the books are based on principals.  Even in disagreement, often, the principals remain the same, the actions though may not be exactly the same.

Bull everyone us are always being judged.    Hell I have been called everything from Uber (yes Uber not Ubar) Gorean fundamentalist to feminazi man hating bitch, all on the same subject yet different venues saying the exact same thing.  Actually going out and discussing things in this type of venue takes a hell of a lot of back bone.  You can take it personally or not, that choice is always left up to you.

Jahna

_____________________________

Mass-produced human beings are attractive only to those who expect to be their benevolent mass producers. John Norman

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