Collarchat.com

Create a
Free Account
As the Collar Turns:
Collarchat.com - BDSM Forum

Home  Login  Search 
Espanol  Deutsch  Francais  Italiano  Portugues 

Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/25/2007 8:47:23 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
All in all, I'm pretty glad not to be Gorean; I'm free to enjoy any flavor of ice cream I wish; even vanilla, from time to time.


Since I'm already pissed off tonight, I might as well tackle this one too.  Exactly what part of: "This is a forum for those who identify as Goreans and for others who wish to learn about it" escaped you? 

There are eight other sections of these forums where you can muse about how great it is not to be Gorean, and hell, just about everyone posting there will wholeheartedly agree with you.  What in the wide, wide world of sports made you think that the presence of this section is an open invitation for you to jump into just about every thread to teach, preach, criticize, and editorialize from your happy-as-a-pig-in-shit-not-to-be-Gorean point of view?  How about you toddle off down to the Ask a Mistress section for a while and muse about how great it is NOT to be a male submissive, and oh by the way, here's what I think about what it means to be one, and why it's limiting to be one?  Just a tad on the disrespectful side, don'tcha think?

I'm picking on Stephann here, but he's not the only, or even the best example.  It's getting to be that some of the most frequent posters in this section are of the happy-as-a-pig-in-shit-not-to-be-Gorean variety.  Folks, I've got some news for you.  There isn't a god damn thing that you have to say about the way we live that we haven't heard before.  Twice.  This section was created in the first place because, before it was, every thread that went anywhere near the subject of Gor turned into a 1200 post epic full of teaching, preaching, critique, devil's advocacy, fear, and loathing by happy-as-a-pig-in-shit-not-to-be-Goreans. 

Let me point out, once more:  This is a forum for those who identify as Goreans and for others who wish to learn about it.  If you don't fit into one of those two categories, how about showing a little respect for those who do, and let us carry on a conversation among ourselves free of constant distraction?

This post was brought to you by Chock-Full-of-Nuts coffee.  Better coffee a millionaire's money can't buy.






< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/25/2007 8:50:57 PM >


_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/25/2007 9:17:47 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline
Leonidas,

I took my shoes off.  What part of one needn't be Gorean, to discuss Gor, doesn't make sense?  In fact, find one - just one - post where I've said a single derogatory thing about Gor?  Goreans?  Gorean lifestyles?

Really, there's better bones to pick.  I do enjoy the other eight sections.  Female dominants answer 'ask a Master' questions, male dominants answer 'as a submissive' questions, and vanalla folk abound in the General BDSM section.

If you don't friggin like the statements I or other 'non-Goreans' make, respectfully, politely, honestly, with the spirit to think, share and learn, there's a little red hand underneath every single one of my posts. Liberal use of it may improve your experience.  If you don't like the possibility that folks who are not Gorean may come and discuss Gor, on a BDSM website, there' certainly other, more 'Gorean' stomping grounds on the net that don't put up with us arrogant non-Gorean party crashers. 

(Final Edit, I promise)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ModeraterOne

As the description for this section states, this is a forum for the open discussion of topics pertaining to Gorean Lifestlyes. This is not the place to discuss online or real life Gorean roleplaying. All members are welcome to join in the conversation here regardless of experience or interest.


Stephan


< Message edited by Stephann -- 7/25/2007 9:28:47 PM >


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/25/2007 9:24:29 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
What about people who identify as gorean but who don't feel like actually learning or enjoying being gorean and just want to sound cool? :)

And I'm happy to take my shoes off to any gracious host who requests it in their house.  And I'm happy to abide by the rules of a forum- not just the ones you want people to follow.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/25/2007 9:36:46 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

In fact, find one - just one - post where I've said a single derogatory thing about Gor?  Goreans?  Gorean lifestyles?




How about the one I just quoted above?  You've been on this "Goreans are slaves to a dogma, but I"m a free thinker, look at me!" kick for a while now, and frankly dude, it's getting to be a real fucking drag.  If you'd like, I'll be happy to post you a list of examples, but is that really necessary?  If you're over it, cool, get over it and move on.

I'm more than happy to discuss how I live with folks who come here with some genuine intention to understand it.  Self-styled experts on how I live, and why it's more limiting than how they live tend to piss me off a little, as I'm sure they would anyone.  Yeah, I can ignore you, and I usually do, but like a squeaky hinge you just keep getting squeakier.  Again, you aren't the only one, or even the best example.  You're just the one who came to hand.


I'd hate to see this section end up like the many threads in the general section were, where the Goreans just end up drowned out in a chorus of those who ain't.  I don't think that's an unreasonable wish.  I don't expect it to be a wish that gets granted, but I'm happy to offer it up anyhow.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/25/2007 9:37:59 PM >


_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/25/2007 9:49:07 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline
Are you kidding?  You're taking an off handed, self-depreciating remark and painting it like an attack on Gorean hive thought.  It doesn't say there's something wrong being Gorean, it says I like vanilla ice cream. 

I didn't have anything to get over; if it wasn't that big a deal to you, why the big angry posting?  If Goreans (or anyone else for that matter) aren't capable of shining on their own merits and wit, it isn't the ignorant masses to be blamed.

What you're not seeing is that this particular Gorean forum is so robust, because it constantly has a stream of new thought and opposing ideas.  Gorean forums end up ruled with iron fists, dictacting what is and isn't Gorean, and driving off any opinions and ideas that don't challenge their dogma.  Instead of bitching that the wheel squeaks, why not pull it together and get some oil?  If I'm wrong on something, or you don't like my opinion, why not address it?  I like reading your posts, I like hearing what you have to say.  Agreement isn't a necessary component of rational discussion; mutal respect for the others position is. 

Or, go back to ignoring me, I really don't give a fuck. 

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/25/2007 9:52:59 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Gorean hive thought


Heh.  You'd think you could help yourself at least for the span of this thread, of all threads.  Guess not.


_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/25/2007 9:59:20 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline
You're in such a rush to find offense, where none is intended, I doubt there's any point to continuing this conversation.  The point I made, was that I was making no attack.  I don't believe Goreans have hive thought.  You are convinced that all outsiders see 'you' the same.  As with any social group, there are Gorean social norms, and individuals adhere to them as loosely or ridgidly as they, individually, choose to.  Now put the spitball shooter down, and take it seriously, or decide it's not worth the effort.

Prof Budge


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/25/2007 10:08:40 PM   
hikerlad


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline
umm what's a gorean?

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/25/2007 10:10:12 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline
Click Here.  Learn to use the search features, please.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to hikerlad)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/25/2007 10:16:36 PM   
Natasi


Posts: 18
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline
Greetings Master Leonidas,

natasi is highly interested in reading the post on Gorean life and philosphy for natasi is a not-Gorean. If it pleases You, natasi would and does appreciate the contributions from You and others that are knowledgeable from first hand experience, as opposed to those with first hand experience of being Not-Gorean. natasi already knows about being not-Gorean. natasi also recognizes that in the Gorean forum that it seems odd that there are far more experts in being not-Gorean(such as natasi) than there are experts of Being-Gorean.



_____________________________

--"As you now are, we once were; as we now are you may yet become."--

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/26/2007 12:43:00 AM   
patina


Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: no
Status: offline
Greetings to All:

I am newly Gorean, I enjoy all posts as it lets the knowledgeable Gorean Masters, like Master Orion, Master Leonidas, Master Bull, Master Malkinius, and Master Rapture teach us the things we need to learn.  The posts from the non-Gorean can be helpful in that discussion are wrought between all and we can learn from that also. 
I do not like to see the bashing of either on this side.  Master Leonidas, there is enough bashing on the BDSM side can the Gorean side not be a little more seperate from it.  If I am out of bounds on this I beg pardon as I am coming out of a down side and am sensitive to emotions right now. 

This girl hopes we can all learn from one another Gorean and non Gorean alike.  There are some Masters on the other side I have a high respect for even though they probably are not Gorean.  Their views on the lifestyle and just in general life match a lot of Gorean views but they would disagree on a lot of other areas.  Does this make them any less of a Master or honorable man.  I hope not as there are so few in this world as it is.  

Again if I am stepping out of bounds I am sorry, this girl just does not want this forum to lose its place through squabbeling.  Thank you all for your indulgence in a sassy old gal.(grins)

peace be to all

patina           

_____________________________

a diamond in the rough

(in reply to Natasi)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/26/2007 5:58:54 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quick reply....

i read this forum almost daily, as i find it interesting....could i ever identify as Gorean? who knows...ive been told by one who knows Gor well, i would be a panther woman....i dont know what that is, but she was smiling when she said it, so i took it as a compliment....

that said, i have no desires to read the books.....does that disqualify me as actually wanting and seeking knowledge?  just from reading this forum, i can see the books are open to interpretation.......the things i like about Gor are the honor i sense that is expected from all, no matter their station in life....the pride one takes in doing their job well.....the things that, to me, are much in line with the values i was raised in.....the man was head of the household...the woman thrived on pleasing him in many ways.....

i have gently asked questions on threads, attempting to get answers and/or thoughts, as to whether i see things correctly....they have never been responded to.....it made me think the questions were either dumb or unwelcome.....

seeing this thread, i put on my bravery again to ask the following......since this is identified as those who identify as Gor and those who wish to learn more about it, does this mean we can learn only by reading what is posted already? how does one go about asking a question without fear of being jumped on or ignored?

on the other threads, ignorance is not tolerated, but a question showing ignorance is answered, perhaps with a spanking of words, but answered nonetheless.....

i guess what i am saying is, to ME, and me only, this section seems to be more exclusive, with a few welcomed and the rest ignored or berated.  having a genuine desire to learn about ya'll as a people, a culture, a group, well, it just aint easy to figure out how to go about seeking knowledge without pissing someone off.

sighs.....i hope this says what i mean....thw written word cant show sincerity.......

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to patina)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/26/2007 6:37:35 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I'd hate to see this section end up like the many threads in the general section were, where the Goreans just end up drowned out in a chorus of those who ain't.  I don't think that's an unreasonable wish.  I don't expect it to be a wish that gets granted, but I'm happy to offer it up anyhow


I understand Leonidas, I'm a great offender as of late. It is much more my posting style,
I'm very literal and concrete, I'll tone it down, it isn't a dislike for any group of people.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/26/2007 6:55:29 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline
Leonidas,

I understand I am one of those "offenders" along with others, and if I have in anyway upset you I do truly apologize. I enjoy my time on this board, not because I see myself or my Sir as Gorean, but because personality-wise, I see so much in common between you/bull/orion and my Sir that it isnt even funny. It has sometimes helped me to understand my own Sir by reading the words of you Men here. Sir is one of those men who often sees no point in explaining himself, thts just the way things are and he sees no point in discussion. Sometimes listning to your explinations can help me understand more about what he expects of me. Its so amazing when I go to him and tell him what I read on this board and ask him if thats what he thinks and he agrees compleatly with all of you. I understand I do not know enough about Gor to really contribute one way or the other, but I enjoy the conversations. Again, I am sorry if I have offended anyone in anyway...

ghita~

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/26/2007 6:55:51 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 37373
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
I suppose I should weigh in here, probably being 'the best example.'  However, I will say that while I do not call myself Gorean (I firmly believe my philosophy pre-dates it) I share a great deal in common with it and do not not call myself Gorean either.   I am certainly not BDSM as it is viewed here. I am a man, but I ain't about to yodel all these different tunes.  I admit my faults are legion, and that is sufficient.  

The world is strong enough to withstand rather dissonant voices, without crumbling into dust,  in my opinion. 

Ron

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/26/2007 7:14:21 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
So, now that it's morning and I'm not so pissed off, I'll clerify a little bit.

First of all, I'll say it again, I used Stehpann as an example, but not because I think he's the poster boy for what I'm talking about.  He was just the example that I happened to run across.

Look, I could go down to the Ask a Mistress section and offer up my opinion about "forced" man-on-man cocksucking, or any number of other topics that seem to come up down there regularly, but you know what?  I doubt that my opinion about it would be much welcome, and more importantly, it wouldn't be very relevant to the folks who have chosen to live like they live, and so call that section home.  I could hang out in that section and ask a bunch of sarcastic rhetorical questions, or make sure that every assertion with which I happened to disagree was exposed for the damnable lie that it is, but why?  I'd just be noise; just an impediment to the conversations about how they live that they'd like to have.  I respect that, and so you won't be seeing any posts with my name on them in that section anytime soon.

Some of the topics discussed in this section are fairly broad and general, and don't really invite a discussion among Goreans about what it is to be Gorean.  Some of them do.  When the latter kind of thread starts to fill up with posts about how Goreans are obviously deluded, or unenlightened, or have tunnel vision, or a hive mind, or group think, or are slaves to dogma, or whatever, any meaningful exchange of ideas among those of us who live this way gets lost in the din.  That's unfortunate, because it getting lost in the din is why this section was put here in the first place.

A healthy exchange of ideas by people of diverse backgrounds is something that I endorse, and to occasionally defend challenges to ones point of view by those who disagree is also healthy.  To constantly be put in the position of having to defend your point of view to those who disagree when what you'd really like to do is have a conversation with others who identify as being in your same social group, though, is just plain a pain-in-the-ass.  I'll say it again, a little less angrily than I did last night.  I sincerely doubt that there is an oh-so-logical-and-enlightened argument against a Gorean point of view that any of us who have been around a while haven't already heard.  A lot. 

If you're Gorean, this section is primarily for you.  Come connect with other Goreans here and share the journey.  If you aren't, but you're curious about how we live and think, this section is for you too.  Ask a thoughtful question about it that isn't rhetorical or sarcastic in its intent, and you'll likely get a thoughtful response, hopefully from a Gorean, and not from someone who isn't, but feels the need to offer your their two pence anyhow.  If you're not Gorean, but you've made it your mission to provide a running critique and counterpoint to each-and-every opinion expressed here from your glad-not-to-be-Gorean point of view, appreciate it if you'd take a minute or two and ask yourself why you feel the need to do that. 

Welcome, Please remove your shoes.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/26/2007 7:22:52 AM >


_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/26/2007 8:46:52 AM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
If you're not Gorean, but you've made it your mission to provide a running critique and counterpoint to each-and-every opinion expressed here from your glad-not-to-be-Gorean point of view, appreciate it if you'd take a minute or two and ask yourself why you feel the need to do that.


Because it's a unique and fascinating culture that brings up points of thought and philosophy that are often more interesting to discuss than more crap on how to spank people.  Because some of those points (the ones outside the sex and gender arena) are fairly close to social Darwinism, which is my own base ethic.  Because sometimes the viewpoint of an outsider who sees Gorean culture as a culture may even be a helpful contribution to the community, which is made up of many individuals whom I am likely to respect even if I may disagree with them in some particulars.  Because it's also helpful on the flip side to have folks who actually know what real Goreans are and who can explain that clearly and accurately to the folks who thought it was all about riding cyber tarns and having chat room sex.  Though usually not with the cyber tarns.

CM is a multicultural site by design.  There will be crossover and participation from outside the individual cultures of each of the forums.  The moderators do keep it polite, which I agree is a good thing.  But they don't keep it from happening, and that's a policy decision on their part that I personally feel tends to mostly add value rather than subtracting it.   America is very much a melting pot of many different cultures, and in general I think that's been a good thing for our country.  Clashes happen, but so do mutual contributions.

I willingly take my shoes off in your house, but I don't think it would be right to say "Tal".  I think it would be presumptuous and unfair of me (not to mention misleading), so sometimes I use disclaimers.  The reason for this is the same for not using certain Native American words or symbols out of their original context.  I feel it is wrong to take up cultural badges I have not earned by honorably living up to the standards of that culture.  Yes, I am happy not to be Gorean, because I am happy to be me, and the me I am doesn't happen to be Gorean.  I'm also happy to be Japanese-American rather than, say, Tibetian, but that doesn't mean I dislike or disrespect Tibetians.  I will admit that I like sushi better than yak butter. 

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/26/2007 8:55:27 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
As far as general principles go,  your point is a good one.


But if you were to read or visit the other forums here on CM, you would see that they all include rhetorical questions, attacks, sarcasm, and general adversity. Why would the Gorean board be any different?



_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/26/2007 10:56:12 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
Tal Leonidas,

I’m sure glad you recaptured your objectivity and sense of reason. I was worried that I was going to be the one left to define our views from the side of impartiality. I’m thinking I’m the one they graciously label as passionate.

I too have grown weary of the politicians, the nay Sayers and the bottom feeders that simply here for rhetorical value and quite possibly their own personal validation. While I am surely not opposed to contrary views, nor am I so insecure within my Gorean stance I shirk from philosophical debate. It does seem ridiculous that we have so many expert analysts that aren’t only non-Goreans and eager to proclaim such, they also most likely have at best only experience with “living” Goreans. It does leave me curious as to their implied expertise on our non fictional existence.

I should note the interlopers are most fortunate that you coined the catch phrase for this thread, “please, take off your shoes.” I would have found it more appropriate in my opinion to say, “Welcome, please take off your shoes or we will be forced to cut off your fuckin’ feet. Enjoy your stay within our sphere of influence; it is a Gorean pretense that if you don’t like how we have decorated our home, the exit doors are clearly marked. Have a nice day.”

I think many that find us unfair, boorish and uncompromising fail to understand the very essence of what we value, a man’s freedom to be that which “we” feel nature has intended. They need to stop and ponder the reasons they’re here in this section a bit more. They might discover they value the type of man that calls a Gorean existence his own. And a few others are simply here because they have no identity of their own and are living the lives of sucker fish, There are yet others that like a lake surrounded fellow would just enjoy the dialogue and kinship of noble men.

But hell, what do I know, I’m just a damn figment of your imagination, right? They tell me Goreans are fictional. I’m just to damn independent and stubborn to acknowledge my own nonexistence.

Have a beer, and a great day Gorean,

Bull

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes - 7/26/2007 10:57:09 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
It is a shame when someone is not able or cannot allow their beliefs to be held up to the light of day.  What are they afraid of?

It is true that if every post was diluted by folks, like myself, who have a half assed interest or understanding of Gor little would get done.  But it seems if someone who actually has shown an interest in your quaint lil' society gets shot down for posing a thought...Then why would anyone be expected to believe in something where the foundation is so frailly constructed that to ask a question might send the whole thing crumbling down or worse might expose a flaw that without thought might go unrepaired or questioned?

_____________________________



(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> Welcome, Please Remove Your Shoes Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2012
Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.156