Collarchat.com

Create a
Free Account		 As the Collar Turns:
 Collarchat.com - BDSM Forum

Home  Login  Search 
Espanol  Deutsch  Francais  Italiano  Portugues 

Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 4:35:26 AM   
sweetNsmartBBW


Posts: 167
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings all...

Before I post my question, let me say that I freely admit that I don't know all that much about Gor.  I respect the choices people make, and am not trying in any way to be either disrespectful or to incite unpleasantries.  I know there are many loving Gorean couples out there; and I admire them.  However, from what I have seen and read, slavery on Gor is not about love- at least not from the Male point of view.

I recently asked a Gorean Master this question and was hoping that others- Masters and slaves- might be willing to help shed some light on it for me.  It would be greatly appreciated.  I'm just searching for a better understanding:

"I guess what confused me is that many of the profiles of Goreans I have seen make it abundantly clear that Master's do not need to love their slaves.  Some do, of course, but it's certainly not a prerequisite- and is not something a slave should expect; it's certainly not their right or perogative to be loved. The Master's only real responsibility to the slave is to Master them.  While Gorean Males are interested in honor and valor- such things really seem have little, or no, bearing on how they relate to slaves- who have no rights, and indeed don't even need to be happy in their slavery.  From my limited understanding, Gorean slaves really only need to be obedient.  With that being the case, I'm not sure why- being on earth in this day and age- a woman- even a submissive or slave woman, would ~chose~ to live with a Gorean Master.  Obviously, some fall in love with their Master's and wish to serve because of that.  That's not really what I'm referring to, though.  I'm talking about slaves that chose from the outset to seek out a Gorean type existence.  I'm not trying to be snide in any way- just really trying to understand it.  Unlike on Gor, women here have a choice of who they submit to- what does it benefit a woman to submit to a Person that adheres to the Gorean beliefs?  I know that the concept may seem foreign to Goreans, as slaves are slaves and should just be true to their nature- but in a society where slaves ~do~ have the right to chose whom they submit to, where they can be true to their nature in different situations and have a choice in Who owns them-  why chose such a harsh existence?  Especially, when there are other alternatives and other opportunities to experience slavery in lifestyle BDSM instead.  Perhaps I am just niave, and have a romantic image of something where it should not exist; and I know that a large portion of slaves on Gor grow to love their Master's- but if the Master really has no obligation to even feel affection or caring in return- why seek this out?  I just have a hard time understanding it in theory."

Thank you all so much for your insight...
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 6:26:26 AM   
edana


Posts: 594
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings

I don’t really want to go back into the ‘love’ debate again, so I will direct you to the search feature at the top of the web page.  We have discussed love and all that it means in great length here.

Suffice it to say, this part of my female need/desire has indeed been satisfied.   The key lies in the definition of that emotion.   Please do read posts on this topic for further detail.

The question that interested me was the one of why a woman would ever seek out such a harsh condition when there are alternatives.   To be completely honest, I had no idea what I was really getting myself into; neither with begging the collar of a Gorean, nor with asking to be made a slave in general.   Oh sure I asked tons of questions and if you have read any of my Masters posts here, you can see that he does a pretty good job of explaining things to people, but I had no working theory to base what he told me in a light of reality.   All I knew was that the things he said felt good, and I was willing to take the risk that he was telling the truth.   

So what did he say?  Well I like to feel good about myself so I can tell you what he didn’t say. 
He didn’t tell me that I was a worthless piece of meat, he didn’t sneer at me and call me a whore not fit to wear clothes.  He didn’t pull out a big stick and beat me with it and say this is for all the ways you have caused men to behave. 

No; that would not have worked on me, I actually despise humiliation, I certainly didn’t need to feel more ashamed of myself. 

What he said was, I value you, you the girl who stands before me.  The sexual animal that trembles like a leaf.  I value your beauty when you are kneeling and begging to be fed, to be touched. I value your need to please.   I value you and I find you to be the most beautiful of all things.  

Then he commanded me to remain that way… taught me how to be more beautiful by obedience and understanding my place.    

There is always struggle to be sure, Goreans call it the ‘chain dance’ again you can use the search feature to look it up.   But the general idea is that your ideas of what is right and wrong undergo a substantial shift.

Having said this I can tell you that as a Gorean girl, I am both loved and respected as such.   I do not feel I have been neither swindled nor short changed in my life choice.  In fact it is everyone else I feel sorry for. 

_____________________________

In service,

edana

"Discipline turns talent into ability"

(in reply to sweetNsmartBBW)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 6:30:23 AM   
NakedGirlScout


Posts: 370
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		This seems, to me, to be a question about whether love is necessary or desirable in a master/slave relationship, and not really about Gor. That question has been debated many times, and most people do have a lot of love in their relationships while a few are into service only. I've never found that Gorean relationships were any more or less loving than the non-Gorean counterparts.

(in reply to edana)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 7:31:58 AM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings sweet n smart nurse

I'm not sure what you have been reading ,here are some quotes from the books 

http://www.counter-urth.com/CF/quotes/lovequotes.html

Gor is not a harsh of an existance for those that it is home too.

For many it is comfort and sensible, it is a sense of belonging and many perceive it to be harsh  because they do not take the time to 'truly know'

and I gather you think it to be unfullfilling for you but

Each of us carries with us different schemas brought about by lifes circumstance, genetics, environment and culture so perhaps it is just as simple as that.

well wishes

(in reply to NakedGirlScout)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 7:40:50 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		edana.....your post explained so much to me......thanks......you are truly blessed, as is you master

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to edana)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 7:44:31 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline 		Beautiful post, edana~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to edana)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 8:10:22 AM   
Trevelyan


Posts: 528
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Mountain View, CA
Status: offline 		You are a credit to your master, edana.

(in reply to edana)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 8:44:45 AM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
edana, it's been said before, but aea can't help but saying that your words were beautifully, poignantly written.
 
To sweetNsmart -
For aea the Gorean lifestyle allows her to be her most submissive self, it allows her to shed inhibitions that society has placed upon her, it allows her to be her most female self without shame.  It allows her a fulfillment that can and will only be found at the feet of strong men.  In her past, being owned by a Gorean man has allowed her to surrender herself completely in these ways and more and to trust wholeheartedly. 
 
There is nothing else aea would desire.  It is enough.  If love happens, well that's a bonus perhaps.
 
Well wishes,
 
aea

(in reply to sweetNsmartBBW)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 10:03:09 AM   
aeleberaNB


Posts: 690
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Alberta, Calgary, Canada
Status: offline 		Greetings girls:
greetings edana:

~~smiles~~

edana: your post is a wonderfully written one. your words so clear and true making one stop and think, smile and be proud of where one is in her journey.

sweet n smart: as edana kindly pointed out, top right hand corner of the page is the search function.. just put in what is love, search the gorean forums and it should bring up lots of stuff. also what is gor, or what is not gor can be found using the search function.

while there may be a million or more pages to read through, my suggestion is to read all back threads and if something sparks your interest by all means ask a question about it and if the Free sees fit to answer they will be most helpful as long as it is a serious query.

wishing you well
aelebera{NB}

_____________________________

He is the Master, i am His slave, His property, His muse to do with as He pleases, when and where He pleases. Trust in thy Master as HE knows what is best for His property.

(in reply to aeaa)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 10:44:06 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		I remember plainly, and will always remember the first time I saw edana in person.  She walked to where I was sitting across a parking in a valiant attempt at a sexy gait with rubbery knees.  When she sat down across from me she was visibly shaking.  I extended my hand to touch her and she immediately got a look in her eyes of a woman waiting for the blow to fall; fearful and vacant, preparing as best she can not to feel what's coming.  When she felt the back of my hand gently touch her cheek, she burst into tears, took my hand in hers and kissed it eagerly.

Later that day I stood her in front of me, stripped her naked, and inspected her head to toe.  Not just how she looked, but how she responded to being naked in front of a man, being handled by a man, and being made to respond to a man's commands, both spoken and tactile.  I was not disappointed, but I saw that I had my work cut out for me.  It wasn't in her body, or the way that she responded.  It was in the sad, wistful smile on her face.  It was a smile that said, clearly, "I know that I'm probably nothing to you but a convenient fuck.  I know that you're going to hurt me, and take advantage of me, but I also know that I, slut that I am, cannot help letting you."  She was still waiting for the blow to fall.

For thirty years, edana was a slave and a slut among men who didn't know what to do with one.  She learned to accept humilliation, and being second best, and being just a convenient fuck, and being talked down to and demeaned by a husband who knew what she was, and wanted her until he had her, and then despised her for it.  Finally she met a man who did know what to do with her.  A man from a different culture.  So, she chose to submit to a Gorean man.

After three years she is, in some ways, still waiting for the blow to fall.  Waiting to be replaced.  Waiting to be hurt.  Waiting to wake up one day and find that she has just been used and discarded again.  She is finding, slowlly, acceptance of her place, and the security that a slave girl can find in her master's chains that is nothing at all like the security that a free woman seeks. 

Not every girl seeks out Gorean slavery for the same reasons to be sure, but edana is probably as good an example as you will find.


_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to sweetNsmartBBW)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 10:53:48 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		Good morning Leonidas,

If it were not for the fact that i have to type out what i am thinking at this moment, i would be speechless.  That is not easy to do with me. 

I have read and re-read edana's post and you know that thump that one gets in their gut that means:  damnnn...those are the words that could never come, but feel?   Yeahhhh...is all i can say.

To follow up by your post, i sat here actually in tears wondering why....then i remembered the look on my Masters face when i told Him about my life and it hit to close to home.

I'm going to end this before i ramble..........just.............thank you.

~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 1:56:54 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		-fast reply-

Tal Goreans,

We read the thoughts of a slave girl and her "Master", her "Owner", and he is surely her owner, but owner can be such a is a superficial label, at least in my terms. He is surely more than an owner of simple property as explained through slavegirl's words and then within the words of her master.

As to why a girl would hope a Gorean to be her master. Surely their are girls that prefer different qualities in a man, the same as we men do in they.  There are females that may not discover their slavery in the chains of a Gorean. But they are not the point of the OP. Look at me stay on topic.

I am sure that I am not capable of speaking for any other flavor of masterly fellow, but I can this one. The Gorean man expects more of a wench than she commonly understands, wants her to explore more of herself than she has seen to exist. It moves well beyond sex and housework, well beyond kink and play. These may all be good fun and interesting factors, but they are but the surface of a relationship that a man and his female share. I would say every Gorean man I know will never be satisfied with good enough, they push themselves to be more, and the same for those in their charge. That ole' quote about a Gorean master is strict but seldom cruel has deeper meaning than what he is or is not doing with humiliation and a whip. But in the end, he is what that slut wants and in fact needs, an uncompromising, unyielding, noble and thoughtful man. At least in most cases. The fact is all Goreans see themselves as men first, the master thing is a side benefit that our girls find a cultural benefit. So rather than ask why choose a Gorean, maybe you should witness them in the flesh, discover what Edana did. Then the question may really evolve into why choose anything but a Gorean man?

Sluts sign in at the counter,

Bull

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 2:17:14 PM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline
~ signs in ~
 
Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings girls,

On a more serious note -
 
Thank you to Master Leonidas and edana both for sharing.  
 
aea hopes and prays someday she might be so fortunate to find herself in such a place.
 
Well wishes,
aea

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 2:35:02 PM   
ameenah


Posts: 164
Joined: 11/29/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings to the Free and slaves,
Special greet to sweetNsmart,

Here is a short article ameenah came across at the beginning of her journey into slavery...

www.housemalkinius.com/zwwhyslave.html

Respectfully,
ameenah{Orion}

(in reply to sweetNsmartBBW)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 5:53:11 PM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Tal to the Free and the property
I took your question to mean why shoud a girl seek a Gorean Master. Many times in differing posts there have been discussions regarding the fakes and phoney Doms etc. Although it's no guarantee, how can a slave reduce the risk of finding a fake or phoney? Well we know how Goreans are belittled on other boards so anyone who is able to maintain their identity in those environments has mastered themseves and their ego's. So with minimal information who would you choose? If you choose the Gorean you know immeadiately that they subscibe to the ideals of honor, ethics etc. you also know that they've probably given considerable thought as to how they want to live their life and how a slave fits into their life. Qualities I think a slave would seek in an owner. The casual submissive and role players wouldn't be a good fit because the Gorean man will want more than they would be willing to give. From what I've heard and seen written, slaves see Gorean men as "manly" men. Confident in who they are and their place in the world. Possibly in seeing the slaves of Gorean men they see their inner beauty, graciousness, obedience and happiness and want that for themselves. So why would a slave want a Gorean Master? Because she knows all that about Him with just a simple statement, I'm Gorean. 
TM4Y

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to sweetNsmartBBW)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/28/2007 9:13:35 PM   
sextoygirlNY


Posts: 194
Joined: 7/25/2007
From: Long Island, NY
Status: offline 		greetings sweetnsmartbbw,

why you ask a girl would seek this out?  every girl will have a different answer.
Why did i seek a gorean Master at one time or another in my life? Because of the discipline, the rituals, the honor, the clarity behind gor. A gorean Man knows what they are, knows what they want, and is able to come to terms with their beast within and handle a girl no matter how tamed, trained, obedient, disobedient, or sassy they are.
In my head i seeked out gorean Masters because there was a clarity that i never saw among the BDSM side. Where as a Gorean Master thought was that a girl is here for the sole purpose of HIS pleasure, bdsm masters were more concerned about limits, negotiations, contracts, what our "shared feelings" were
I looked for the my way or the highway mentality, I looked for the swift harsh just punishment, I looked for the bastards who came to terms with the men who they are and treated me as i needed, craved, and desired...PROPERTY.

Love can come into play with property. Think about getting a new car that you saved up for.  Its new, you want to drive it around, you want to keep it clean and test out all the bells and whistles and so much more you want to run your hands against the outside and admire its beauty. Gorean Masters in a way love there slaves for they are a possession and a prized one at that. It might not be on the same level of marriage or equality that society blindly tries to impose on couples, but it is a level that even in the books a Master would defend and fight for what it was that they owned.  Gorean Men, own Gorean slaves.

if i have offended the Free with my take on this please forgive a girl for her ignorance.  This was but a chance to answer why i sought out Gorean Masters at times in my life, and what it was that i found in my slavery to them.
Thank you so much for this opportunity to share with you,

Sincerely
melanie

_____________________________

Don't Dream It, Be It!

Do not ask how to live, but instead proceed to do so.

"Do i have a choice?" Of course you do, but it would please me if you said "on it"


(in reply to sweetNsmartBBW)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/29/2007 6:18:38 AM   
sweetNsmartBBW


Posts: 167
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks to ~all~...wow...*s* a lot of food for thought here.  You have all been so kind, and so selfless, in sharing your experiences with me.  I ~definitely~ feel that I have a better understanding, or at least am at the beginning of understanding, something that was before both a mystery and a bit of an enigma in my eyes.

While I thank you ALL, with great sincerity, a special thanks to those that gave me resources, links, and directed me to where I could search further.  And I have a heartfelt thanks to both Leonidas and edana; I think that it's because of their posts that I really "got it".  Maybe because, even though it's hard to admit...I feel much as edana did...I see so much of myself in Leonidas' post: 

"For thirty years, edana was a slave and a slut among men who didn't know what to do with one.  She learned to accept humilliation, and being second best, and being just a convenient fuck, and being talked down to and demeaned by a husband who knew what she was, and wanted her until he had her, and then despised her for it....in some ways, still waiting for the blow to fall.  Waiting to be replaced.  Waiting to be hurt.  Waiting to wake up one day and find that she has just been used and discarded again." 

Very powerful words, and ones I truly understand. 

My best to everyone *s*...maybe I feared Gor because I did not understand it, but I suppose for those that ~belong~ there, those that identify with the concepts, internalize them, it truly is home.  I always thought of Gor as a man's world...and I doubt any would argue that.  I always understood the allure for a man.  It was why women, especially "submissive" women, would want it where I'd falter.  But I suppose, after reading these posts, I have a better understanding.  If one is truly a slave at heart,  finding a Man that not only knows ~how~ to relate to her, but that values her intrinsically for simply being what she is has a very powerful and positive aspect to it.     

Thanks again!

(in reply to sextoygirlNY)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/29/2007 1:10:10 PM   
ayashaCatori


Posts: 28
Joined: 7/13/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings to all,

asha has very much enjoyed reading through this topic :)  Thanks to you all.
For asha, the story is very very different.  asha was married, she and hubby got into the local BDSM community where we lived and met a wide variety of people.  asha found  as time went by that she was not particularly satisfied with things, totally unnameable at the time, but had no idea how to fix it, where to look, etc.  Hubby wanted a princess to put on a pedastal. asha knows there are more than a few out there that would love to fill that role, it was, however, not asha, though asha did sincerely try.  It was not long before things got totally out of control, asha being a willful brat (topping perhaps?) and hubby began to seek out someone to put asha in her place.  There is a long story here that asha will not go into.
In the end, asha was 'aquired' by her current Master who had seen what asha was and set about teaching her. At this point, asha had never even heard of Gor or anything related to it.  So in answer to the question, asha did not seek out this life, it apparently was only waiting to engulf her.  Now, eight years later, asha is fulfilled, happy, content and can not even begin to imagine living as anything but a kajira.  Yes, there is a deep abiding love between asha and her Master, but it did not start that way *g*.

~asha
Putting Master first above all others.

(in reply to sweetNsmartBBW)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/29/2007 6:42:30 PM   
TankII7871


Posts: 174
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		LMAO  it started with a defiant little brat of a girl telling me NO!  I can say asha didn't choose Gor i chose it for her because it is what she truly was and is.

Eric

(in reply to ayashaCatori)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? - 7/30/2007 12:32:45 AM   
patina


Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: no
Status: offline 		Greetings:

In some ways the BDSM side has the same type of control over their slave, It is called TPE the main difference to me at least but patina is still learning, is that on the BDSM side there is humiliation and pain for some. 

I do hope this helps you some.

peace be to all

patina

_____________________________

a diamond in the rough

(in reply to TankII7871)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> Why do some slaves chose Gorean Masters? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2012
Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

3.938