RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:25:44 PM

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Actually Curious, we are all one species, since we can all produce viable offspring in any pairing. Is sharing enough genes to accomplish that a problem for you?

What we call race is actually subspecies. Subspecies are populations of the same species which, due to certain barriers, do not NORMALY interbreed. Geographical, cultural and morphological barriers can cause this, like who we consider attractive and not attractive. Our sense of Them and Us is not enough to make us separate species though.

To claim there are only three races is crap. To claim that we are different creatures because of slight morpholigical variances is crappier.

Z.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:26:24 PM

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Trying to project myself as a witness to a hypothetical crime... nope. I can't imagine it. The few crimes I witnessed in my life, the ones I was a victim of, were committed by 'palies', so I have trouble making this experiment happen without prejudice.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:27:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Perhaps it's a question of belief (how tedious...).

Because of the Human Genome project and other research, I don't believe there are 'races' within humanity. Please, prove to me that there are.

If you witnessed a crime, and a cop asked you to describe the assailant physically, would you just tell the cop you saw a 'human' do it?

Why of course officer, it was a human of average build, average height, average skin color, and wearing pants and a shirt. What do you mean can I be more specific?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:29:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HydroMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Perhaps it's a question of belief (how tedious...).

Because of the Human Genome project and other research, I don't believe there are 'races' within humanity. Please, prove to me that there are.

If you witnessed a crime, and a cop asked you to describe the assailant physically, would you just tell the cop you saw a 'human' do it?

Why of course officer, it was a human of average build, average height, average skin color, and wearing pants and a shirt. What do you mean can I be more specific?

You obviously wish to be more specific. Nobody is stopping you.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:31:18 PM

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Thank you Zensee; a couple of encounters on the boards, and I feel we belong to the same race. How strange is that?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:32:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Actually Curious, we are all one species, since we can all produce viable offspring in any pairing. Is sharing enough genes to accomplish that a problem for you?

A problem? If I recall correctly, I'm the one advocating accepting differences and similarities alike. Would you propose that we should dislike others for their differences? Or are you trying to pass this off on me?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

What we call race is actually subspecies. Subspecies are populations of the same species which, due to certain barriers, do not NORMALY interbreed.

Pretty much. In biological terms? Yes. Though, I assure you, if you check the dictionary, "race" is proper English. (I'd be happy to provide a link if this definition proves itself elusive.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Geographical, cultural and morphological barriers can cause this, like who we consider attractive and not attractive. Our sense of Them and Us is not enough to make us separate species though.

True.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

To claim there are only three races is crap.

Who said there are only three races?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

To claim that we are different creatures because of slight morpholigical variances is crappier.

I would like to assure you that most brothers are different creatures. You're taking an overly simplistic view, if you find another conclusion.

At what point do these differences merit the description of being another race, common? Pretty obvious, really- we have words for them. You can make another system that is either more receptive or oblivious to such differences, having more or less racial catigories, respectively.

If you chose to have a simplier classifaction system, that's great. Still, some of us perfer to be accurate. Is this so wrong?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:36:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Trying to project myself as a witness to a hypothetical crime... nope. I can't imagine it. The few crimes I witnessed in my life, the ones I was a victim of, were committed by 'palies', so I have trouble making this experiment happen without prejudice.

Forgive my ignorance, what does "palies" mean?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:38:01 PM

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Ok...Ive turned nerd and actually looked up race...

2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics <the English race>
3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:39:45 PM

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Well according to you I can't be more specific because it doesn't get any more specific than human. You're missing her point which I'm just illustrating a bit. No I don't wish to describe the imaginary assailant in any more detail. The point is that you cannot do it without describing some racial feature or another. Take it from someone that has been attacked by a stranger....you will remember every little detail of that person down to the pimple when you describe them and I pretty much guaruntee soemwhere in that description will be the words white, black, hispanic, or asian..ahem, or whatever else you want to throw in there. Because you'll forget every "there is no race" arguement you ever had to make sure they get the person that attacked you.

Edited to annoy

< Message edited by HydroMaster -- 8/1/2007 9:48:32 PM >

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:51:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Trying to project myself as a witness to a hypothetical crime... nope. I can't imagine it. The few crimes I witnessed in my life, the ones I was a victim of, were committed by 'palies', so I have trouble making this experiment happen without prejudice.

Forgive my ignorance, what does "palies" mean?

I was assaulted by people with pale skin. They were definitely human beings: of that, I am sure of, because: they spoke a language, they stood up on their back legs, their skulls were large enough to tell me they weren't from any specie of fish. Though from their behaviour, it was hard to discern them from dinosaurs.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:58:23 PM

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Wait, then you have been attacked and you did used a racial feature....oops. So you are saying they had pale skin...which is a physical feature most likely belonging to.....*drumrole*...whites or asians. See, you didn't describe them as human then....why do you do it now?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 9:58:54 PM

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"Race" is a semantic convenience for describing a person's morphology, or worse, their cultural or geographical origin. Just because many of us could use such categories to help identify another person does not mean that the category we place them in is anything more than a kind of descriptive shorthand. We can pinpoint a person's place of genetic origin by their physical characteristics but that is the only significance of such a categorisation.

In England, prior to the end of WW2, virtually everyone was "Caucasian" but the locals could tell an Irishman from a Scot from an Englishman from a Welshman. Hell they could distinguish an aristocrat of any British "race" from a commoner of the same "race". Does that mean they actually were distinct races? Of course not.

Curious, extending the definition of distinct creatures to include brothers of the same family is playing fast and loose with terms. And while you may be "advocating accepting differences and similarities alike" you are trying to create differences that are mostly arbitrary, highly variable, entirely debatable and genetically invisible.

Z.

< Message edited by Zensee -- 8/1/2007 10:00:16 PM >

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 10:03:32 PM

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There is something in your mind that won't let you admit that there are races...the psych geek in me wants to find it. Granted races are more of a cultural creation than a genetic creation but they're just words describing differences people see, nothing more. They are neither inherently good or bad....just words. They only have evil meaning if there is evil intent behind them.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 10:04:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Curious, extending the definition of distinct creatures to include brothers of the same family is playing fast and loose with terms. And while you may be "advocating accepting differences and similarities alike" you are trying to create differences that are mostly arbitrary, highly variable, entirely debatable and genetically invisible.

I said that brothers are different creatures- not that they're the same race.

The purpose of this statement was to impress upon you that humans do show varience. And that this varience may be generalized in racial considerations.

And, no. I'm not "creat[ing] differences". These have existed for a very long time. A very long time. And people are well aware of them. Instead, it strikes me that you are trying to ignore recongized differences. I can not even guess your motivations for doing so.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 10:12:50 PM

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I find it amusing that at school racial diversity was drilled into our heads and at the same time being told that everyone is the same regardless of race. Ok, does anyone else see the paradox there. You cannot teach celebrating diversity while at the same time preaching that there is no difference. It has to be one or the other. Either there are racial lines and we say yeah for me I'm white and yeah for you you're hispanic or it has to be we are all the same. I don't know how other countries spin it but that's how it is in the US and it friggin drives me nuts.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 10:15:42 PM

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The similarity has existed for longer than the variances and people need to be reminded of them.

You are playing word games to obscure your own meaning and to inject meaning into the words of others. If you cannot guess my motives perhaps it is because you are too busy projecting your own onto others.

I am trying to clarify the terms being used and abused. i.e. WTF does brothers being separate individuals have to do with anything?

Go back to the OP and stop presuming that everything said is a response to your verbal manipulations or that definitions can be altered by them.

Z.

< Message edited by Zensee -- 8/1/2007 10:17:24 PM >

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 10:27:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

The similarity has existed for longer than the variances and people need to be reminded of them.

That's wonderful you think that. But similarities and differences arrise at the exact same time in the absense of identical nature.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

You are playing word games to obscure your own meaning and to inject meaning into the words of others. If you cannot guess my motives perhaps it is because you are too busy projecting your own onto others.

True. How horrid of me for being accurate. Let's all pretend to be the same person, shall we? No more dictionary definitions nor reason. Go us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

I am trying to clarify the terms being used and abused.

Because using "race" by the dictionary-provided definition to describe different groups of human beings is "abuse"? What are you doing to do, call the police and report me for beating the word? Does it cry?

It's a word. One that makes sense. If you don't like a word, .. I don't know, learn a new language?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

i.e. WTF does brothers being separate individuals have to do with anything?

Seperate individuals? They're also different genetically. Which is my point. People aren't the same. At some level, recognizing these differences is useful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Go back to the OP and stop presuming that everything said is a response to your verbal manipulations or that definitions can be altered by them.

"Verbal manipulations"? Well, I would go for irony and point out how none of this is verbal but linguistic- but, that'd be teasing you a bit too much, now wouldn't it?

---

Look. I'm sorry if you invested your say in this thread before looking up what "race" meant, but I simply can't agree to overlook aspects and attributes of a genetically-based group of individuals as nonexistent for the sake of your ease.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 10:28:52 PM

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You know, when you say things like "Hispanic" and "Asian" are races, it might explain why you feel that people jump on you whenever you express your opinion.

How about "Funny-looking"...is that a race?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HydroMaster

Actually I don't feel that this is a friendly thread or that my views are welcome. Seeing as how every time someone says anything that is contrary to your opinion they are immediately jumped on.

Raical System, A system being a method of sorting data and Racial being the data that is being sorted. The simple and commonly used black, white, hispanic, asian, mixed....whatever else you want to throw in there. As I was saying....just a little simpler than trying to name off the latin sub-species names. Good enough of a definition?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 10:30:56 PM

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And the whole conversation has just worn me out. I am folding and going to bed. Good night all you wonderfully diverse people. Kitten I think we just have to agree to disagree...but I'm still not sure if we're disagreeing or just misunderstanding. Can we all just agree to be confused?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/1/2007 10:55:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You know, when you say things like "Hispanic" and "Asian" are races, it might explain why you feel that people jump on you whenever you express your opinion.

How about "Funny-looking"...is that a race?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HydroMaster

Actually I don't feel that this is a friendly thread or that my views are welcome. Seeing as how every time someone says anything that is contrary to your opinion they are immediately jumped on.

Raical System, A system being a method of sorting data and Racial being the data that is being sorted. The simple and commonly used black, white, hispanic, asian, mixed....whatever else you want to throw in there. As I was saying....just a little simpler than trying to name off the latin sub-species names. Good enough of a definition?

Alright, back in the saddle. Way to jump into a conversation by the way. That was 2 hours ago....we've moved on a bit. If you'll kindly look above to the dictionary definition of race. Now tell me how hispanic and asian do not fit the definition. Plus at this point I honestly couldn't care less what definition you use. If you want to use funny-looking as a race be my guest. While wer're at it I think that 2 elephants humping should be a race. But not an elephant by itself though....that would just be silly. Dragons are definitly not a race unless accompanied by a wizard wearing green socks. I have been using legally recognized terms for race in these posts. Go look on any employment application and you'll see exactly this Caucasion or white non-hispanic, African American or black, Asian, Hispanic, or no answer under the category of RACE. In the US at least...mind you I've never seen a French, Nigerian, or Japanese job application to confirm this internationally. You on the other hand seem to be operating under the delusion that hispanic, white, and, asian are somehow forbidden terms.

In the end this conversation has no meaning. No one here will change there minds. Only become more hostile when they can't get others to change their minds. There will be no political change resulting from this. It is likely that most of us will have forgotten this conversation by morning. And all of our lives will go on the same as before it started. So how much time and energy do you really want to waste arguing what fits the definition of race? I think I've wasted more than enough already. And I have to be at work in 6 hours. So I am going to bed at this time.

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