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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/15/2007 3:34:17 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Greetings starshineowned,

It is not that I have not seen that arguement put forward, and it does have some validity, but it is a very narrow and isolated view. You would have to take into account the society, societal views, how important property rights were, and how business owners were really the leaders of the community in general.

To the OP,

I believe even the Priest Kings would agree that a society needs to become self sufficient, before it isolates itself too much. When I get a chance, I want to research how his views on things have changed, and where his major contributors are.

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

Greetings..~smiles~

It was actually just info came across when looking into slavery from the wage aspects Master. Honestly it just posed a different look, and sounded logical on some points..though in the end it probably was just propaganda from a disgruntled person.

Just sort of seemed interesting in some respects because for as much as people support the government..hears so much negativity against it, and how big brother is in their business. From that point it just sort of came..well how does continuing to feed big brother on the whole actually get at the root of how big brother got so big and was just curious if anyone else ever brought it back to the very Constitution as written being the cornerstone.

Apologizes..just flipped through many different websites and other than reading and moving on..didn't bookmark anything.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/17/2007 1:23:06 PM

Gihli

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Tal Free,
Tal Orion,
greetings slaves,

Orion, I do not understand why the people that are elected to run the State legislature should be allowed to decide who represents me, instead of my personal vote for a candidate? Could you explain how that is a better situation for me than me getting to vote for the persons I feel will represent me. Whether my candidate wins, doesn't matter. I got a chance to vote for them. I really disagree with the idea of getting rid of the 17th Amendment.

To the OP, I can see in some ways how he has some Gorean like tendencies; saying what he feels, not just what everyone wants to hear.... hopefully. I agree with pretty much everything he said other than his views on Roe V Wade, which as a man the only way I feel I should have a say in whether a person should have an abortion is if the child to be is mine. I have no business telling you you can't have an abortion, just because I don't agree with them. Just remember the same motto for the right to bear arms, "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them", also applies to abortions. They happened when they were illegal, and will continue to happen if they become illegal again, just the taxpayers may have to pay for the aftereffects in the emergency rooms. Most back-alley abortions end up in the emergency room or the morgue.

The only other thing about the guy that I disagree with; he said the thing about Liberty being the right to choose, and then he wants to take away someones right to make a choice without the government looking in on that decision. Now from what he said, that is the only choice he would try to forstall, but still either I have the right to make any decision for myself, or you are impeeding my Liberties.

Well, I think that is about all I have to say on this.

I wish everyone well,

Gihli

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/17/2007 6:45:54 PM

Aswad

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Greetings, Gihli.

It was expedient. Tallying the votes across several states would be infeasible at the time.

Since then, it has become feasible, but the old way has simply stuck around.

Kind of like why the US hasn't transitioned to parliamentary democracy.

Health,
al-Aswad.

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/18/2007 5:32:38 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Greetings Gihli,

I will try not to threadjack too much so I will keep it simple, and if you have further questions, just cmail me.

In looking and studying the founding of this country, and alot of what the founding fathers wanted to happen, can be seen in many things. The bill of rights often is split by personal rights, and governmental rights. To have a more balanced form of government, the people, and the states need to be represented, at the federal level. The people are represented by the House of Representatives, and the States should be represented by the Senators. 1) Allows each state to have some control in how things are done at a federal level 2) forces the federal government to actual work with those states to get things done 3) states can then be held acountable by the people locally for who they appoint to those positions. 4) Senators would not have to launch campaigns that include marketing themselves (read as playing down the cons and playing up the pros) 5) Since Senators would not have campaigns, big business contributions would not come in to play.

These are just a few, but some of the leading ones.

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gihli

Tal Free,
Tal Orion,
greetings slaves,

Orion, I do not understand why the people that are elected to run the State legislature should be allowed to decide who represents me, instead of my personal vote for a candidate? Could you explain how that is a better situation for me than me getting to vote for the persons I feel will represent me. Whether my candidate wins, doesn't matter. I got a chance to vote for them. I really disagree with the idea of getting rid of the 17th Amendment.

I wish everyone well,

Gihli

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/18/2007 7:01:32 AM

Musicmystery

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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Tal Orion,

On the other hand, this would simply hand additional power to whatever party was in power, and challenging that party successfully would be extremely difficult. Such hegemony is not necessarily in the best interests of the state, as it invites misuse of that power. U.S. History abounds with examples--pick a state. In New York, you could just pick up the daily newspaper--and I'm sure we're not alone.

This is one of the reasons we moved to direct popular election of U.S. Senators a century ago.

Best,

Tim

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/19/2007 7:16:11 PM

Kaledorus

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Ron Paul resonates with me. He is really for liberty, Founding Fathers sort of stuff. I trust myself to provide my security not the state, almost every other candidate would, at some point of wind blowing, deprive us of our right to wield and possess effective self-defense weaponry. I trust Ron Paul on this crucial issue. When Tancredo thought the wind was blowing antigun he voted for gun control, when it didn't pan out he went back to being pro-choice on firearms.
Aside from Ron Paul they are all weasels.

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/21/2007 9:31:07 PM

AtlantisKing111

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What do I like to see in my President? A take-charge attitude for one. Determination and courage for another. Staying the course even when it is tough. As Eisenhower once said "History does not long entrust the care of Freedom to the weak or the timid."

As a conservative Republican I'll also say I want our President to have a desire to make the United States a freedom-loving world-leading capitalistic democracy not a shackled world-following socialistic communist nation.

AtlantisKing

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/21/2007 10:20:14 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AtlantisKing111

What do I like to see in my President? A take-charge attitude for one. Determination and courage for another. Staying the course even when it is tough. As Eisenhower once said "History does not long entrust the care of Freedom to the weak or the timid."

As a conservative Republican I'll also say I want our President to have a desire to make the United States a freedom-loving world-leading capitalistic democracy not a shackled world-following socialistic communist nation.

AtlantisKing

As an independent conservative I too want to see such qualities in my president. First however...I want to see competance and this admin. has been singularly the most incompetant admin. probably since Hoover. With the invasion a success (the war is over...has been for years...we are losing the peace) the creation and abysmal incompetance of the CPA (coalition provisional authority) and Abu Ghriab we began losing that peace right there.

Nothing the CPA did was designed to win friends and influence people. Item: We were offered 10,000 MP's in the week following the fall...we turned them down. Item: We were practically begged not to fire 50,000 Baathist beaurocrats (teachers, nurses and doctors)...we turned them down. Item: When first imprisoning captured suspected insurgents...most were innocent. When any were released...they hated our guts.

Way to go boys.

Furthermore...if Bush had consulted Eisenhower he would have sent in at least another minimum 150,000 troops as 5 armored decisions to protect the entire perimeter(s) of the 5 largest and most important areas of Iraqi government and infastructure. Plus, we would become the government and declared marshall law until all religious antangonism had run its course. This Bush didn't even consult his father his own Sec. of state, a former chairman of the JCS. Almost everything this admin. has done had been either imcompetant or counterprodcutive. I just hope it is enough to see him go 1/09.

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/22/2007 1:09:27 AM

Cilon

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Joined: 3/2/2007
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Tal Free, greetings kajirae
Why is their talk of politics unless you are a polititian you cannot trust them to lay down straight in bed.
I want to see a FM in politics and see how he deals with things and also see him fall on his sword. Doubt it will happen. BECAUSE LIKE THE CLEANING BUSINESS - politics is dirty. if you look in a corner of a room you will find a shite load of scum building up in the corner and no matter what sized scrper you use you will not be able to remove the filth.

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/22/2007 5:12:36 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Greetings MrRodgers,

The Bush comments will likely get more discussion in the off topic area. Besides the specific mention of Ron Paul, and comparrsion to Gorean values, I don't think any have mentioned a specific politician. The reason for that is, it often devolves into shit slinging. I do believe the off topic section has maids on call to clean up shit slinging when it occurs.

I do not believe that Bush has many Gorean values, but besides that, nothing else I have to add that would be in line with the OP.

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtlantisKing111

What do I like to see in my President? A take-charge attitude for one. Determination and courage for another. Staying the course even when it is tough. As Eisenhower once said "History does not long entrust the care of Freedom to the weak or the timid."

As a conservative Republican I'll also say I want our President to have a desire to make the United States a freedom-loving world-leading capitalistic democracy not a shackled world-following socialistic communist nation.

AtlantisKing

As an independent conservative I too want to see such qualities in my president. First however...I want to see competance and this admin. has been singularly the most incompetant admin. probably since Hoover. With the invasion a success (the war is over...has been for years...we are losing the peace) the creation and abysmal incompetance of the CPA (coalition provisional authority) and Abu Ghriab we began losing that peace right there.

Nothing the CPA did was designed to win friends and influence people. Item: We were offered 10,000 MP's in the week following the fall...we turned them down. Item: We were practically begged not to fire 50,000 Baathist beaurocrats (teachers, nurses and doctors)...we turned them down. Item: When first imprisoning captured suspected insurgents...most were innocent. When any were released...they hated our guts.

Way to go boys.

Furthermore...if Bush had consulted Eisenhower he would have sent in at least another minimum 150,000 troops as 5 armored decisions to protect the entire perimeter(s) of the 5 largest and most important areas of Iraqi government and infastructure. Plus, we would become the government and declared marshall law until all religious antangonism had run its course. This Bush didn't even consult his father his own Sec. of state, a former chairman of the JCS. Almost everything this admin. has done had been either imcompetant or counterprodcutive. I just hope it is enough to see him go 1/09.

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/22/2007 10:46:40 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

As a conservative Republican I'll also say I want our President to have a desire to make the United States a freedom-loving world-leading capitalistic democracy not a shackled world-following socialistic communist nation.

Then you shouldn't have elected a president who has trashed U.S. freedoms, corrupted the judicial system, slowed economic growth and ballooned the national debt--the latter extending the 25% of the country Reagan sold to foreign interests by ignoring reality and turning the largest creditor nation into the largest debtor nation in just one president's time in office. Today, under "we'll just borrow the money" Bush, that's been so radically expanded that China and Saudi Arabia, in particular, own so much of U.S. debt that we CAN'T choose to just go our own way--they literally own us. Further, President Cowboy's policies have virtually ensured that we're stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan for years to the tune of billions (not to mention straining the U.S. military to the point where even the commanders say we can't sustain it past the spring--face it--this "Conservative Republican" president has weakened our nation for years to come). U.S. citizens' negative savings rate doesn't help—EVERYBODY seemingly just charges what they can't afford--then are surprised when they lose their homes, all while driving new trucks with 12 mpg and 8 year car loans, as many of my neighbors do, owing more on the truck than it's worth.

I'm sorry to say it, because I fervently love this country, but America is falling--and we've no one to blame but ourselves.

Ideological denial will only worsen an already tenuous situation.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/22/2007 10:56:55 AM >

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/22/2007 4:28:21 PM

ameenah

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I hope other can control their compulsions.

Orion

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RE: Should Goreans concern themselves in Politics? - 8/22/2007 4:31:14 PM

OrionTheWolf

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I fucking hate cookies. You know the damn computer files, that when you select log out, are supposed to remove the id and password? The ones that this site apparently have a problem creating, and editing.

Grrrrrr. Anyway, yeah that is me, posting from my girls account.

Orion