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RE: Integrity - 8/26/2007 4:49:33 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
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Greetings azuregirl,

Using the dogfighting scenario; I can respect a person more if they were to say 'I did it, I enjoy it, if people don't like it then they do not have to watch it.". I personally may disagree with dog fighting, but if someone is going to engage in such activity, knowing it is illegal and society will not look kindly on it, then they should admit and accept the consequences of their actions.

Laws do not prevent people from doing things, they do not protect anything. Laws create a consequence for socially unacctable behavior. If I decide to speed, then I am knowing breaking the law and I should accept the consequences of those actions. Same goes with anything, you have the freedom to do it, but do you have the integrity to face those consequences.

You, me or many in society may believe it to be immoral, but that is based upon our virtues/morals/ethics. Someone may have different morals, and I have no problem until those morals infringe on me and mine. If it is a law, then I accept the law, the consequences or use the system to try and get it changed.

Orion

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.

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Post #: 41

RE: Integrity - 8/27/2007 9:51:09 AM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

Hi Orion,

I'm with you on this. If he had owned it and said yup, I fight dogs, I believe it is right to do so, I'd still think he had integrity. Of course he didn't because he is desperate to try and protect his income source, guess he should of thought of that before risking it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Greetings azuregirl,

Using the dogfighting scenario; I can respect a person more if they were to say 'I did it, I enjoy it, if people don't like it then they do not have to watch it.". I personally may disagree with dog fighting, but if someone is going to engage in such activity, knowing it is illegal and society will not look kindly on it, then they should admit and accept the consequences of their actions.

Laws do not prevent people from doing things, they do not protect anything. Laws create a consequence for socially unacctable behavior. If I decide to speed, then I am knowing breaking the law and I should accept the consequences of those actions. Same goes with anything, you have the freedom to do it, but do you have the integrity to face those consequences.

You, me or many in society may believe it to be immoral, but that is based upon our virtues/morals/ethics. Someone may have different morals, and I have no problem until those morals infringe on me and mine. If it is a law, then I accept the law, the consequences or use the system to try and get it changed.

Orion

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

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Post #: 42

RE: Integrity - 8/27/2007 10:07:27 AM

xBullx

Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

-fast reply-

After reading Orions latest post and then Chewsie's response, these replues are along the lines of what I was originally thinking about with this thread. Also to expand on how this applies to Gorean ethics and the definition of the word itself, so far as to how a Gorean sees it. Within the individual value/virtue. I often think back to the thread Leonidas made long ago about the fellow that stood off police and whether that was honorable, as a Gorean sees it. I took that thread in the wrong frame of mind back then and I guess that was do to a lapse of focus on the heart of the matter, looking back that fellow served his honor as best he knew how, whether I liked it or not. So that is Gorean enough as for as I see it. That thread and other things I have been considering is why I hoped to direct our attentions to a more indivdually focused effort on the more important Gorean values. It's hard to look at the whole of the structure we're building if we have no clear idea about the foundations construction.

Live well,

Bull

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Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

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Post #: 43

RE: Integrity - 8/27/2007 10:10:53 AM

azuregirl

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/5/2007
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Greetings Master Orion,

Thank you for taking time and explaining this to me. i can see now that denying or making excuses are the easier way out. To take head on whatever may be coming for carrying out a perceived immoral action or crime despite condemnation or punishment is a more responsible stand. Respectfully, i will add, Master, that would not guarantee i would feel any less disappointment or horror over the act. Although when i see those from the ministry or politicians crying on camera and begging forgiveness i feel a certain amount of skepticism over their sincerity.

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Post #: 44

RE: Integrity - 8/28/2007 1:59:31 AM

Aswad

Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
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Disappointment and horror are natural reactions, and common.
Sincerity, integrity and unapologetic living are far more rare.

Vicks fails in two out of those three, at the very least, and fails to stand for himself.
To borrow some prose, his limits are set by the mere baring of steel.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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Post #: 45

RE: Integrity - 8/28/2007 7:49:12 PM

wolffeathers

Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
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I have only read parts of this thread (as I was told about the barely thing.)

I will have to say, the integrity is shown by people standing up for themselves, and for taking the blame for their actions. As the NFL is not making Vick pay for his actions with bans, and has not made other players pay actions, then why would anyone think that being in pro sports means anything else....

Wolf

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It's my way or the highway. Just happens that the highway is on my way.

~Master Wolf

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Post #: 46

RE: Integrity - 8/28/2007 8:49:04 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 16520
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

[fast reply]

Just one interesting take I saw today, for whatever it's worth.

http://shanessportpage.blogspot.com/2007/08/sick-of-vick.html

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Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
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Post #: 47

RE: Integrity - 8/28/2007 9:55:06 PM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2932
Joined: 1/1/2004
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integrity
can be measured
by self
by society
by standards
by action
or be ignored,
integrity more often then not is a very lonely word when defined. It can be singular and based on the value of one that stands alone or as a whole of many that stand together. Neither usually mix with the same integral beliefs. JMO

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Post #: 48