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Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books then Norman


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Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books the... - 8/29/2007 8:57:05 PM   
Ravin


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Title pretty much sums it up, is anyone able to write "Gor" books or do You feel its Normans right only, much like someone attempting to write more Harry Potter and it not be J.K. Rowling?
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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/29/2007 9:21:25 PM   
Kimveri


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Evening, folks,

Hello, Ravin,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ravin
..."is anyone able to write "Gor" books or do You feel its Normans right only"...


It's not actually merely a matter of opinion, but also a matter of law. Copyright, intellectual property rights & so on are a morass of confusion for most of us folks, but there are a few places where one can get a fairly clear summary -- both in general & in specific reference to the Gor series.

Try the Gor Chronicles website. http://gorchronicles.com

I believe you need to register (it's free) to read there. There's an article in the "Articles" section that is a fine summary of copyright issues. Also, there's a thread on the second page of the "General Gorean Discussion" forum there that is titled "Derivative Works - Fan Fic, Art, Merchandise" which will shed light on how J.Lange feels about it himself.

http://gorchronicles.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=369&forum=2&post_id=2962#forumpost2962

My opinion, based on what the author himself states, is that it'd be wrong to write any derivative fiction about Gor or it's characters. YMMV.

Happy reading!

~Kimveri

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"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 2:11:27 AM   
MistressDREAD


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luv the bumper sticker!!
I run folks crazy when I write in this manner.
Im usually kicked out of the Gor chat rooms
when I do so. LOL They think Im insane and
havent a clue..........
John Norman does have another book in the works however He is no spring chick and the hands dont work as quick as they use to. Will it be finished befor He is finished, who can say.

(in reply to Kimveri)
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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 6:11:34 AM   
fyreOmega


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fast reply,

Greetings Master Ravin,

besides the whole copyright issue ...Fyre does NOT believe just anyone could write the chronicles of Gor for John Norman conveyed through His writings that He based His arguements(over western culture) with his philos based on natural philosophy ,evolution and in natural selection.

He purposely chose points in History ,for the Gorean culture,from before the advent
of Christianity,to make his point to show that we are indeed removed from what is natural because of  these  influences.

Whatever His reasoning for writing the books is irrelevant to fyre for He did well get His point across.

He is a philosopher and without someone climbing into His brain and knowing exactly the hows and whys and whats.....it would NOT be the same.

just this girls o2

well wishes

edited for grammatical errors*

< Message edited by fyreOmega -- 8/30/2007 6:12:59 AM >

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 7:06:57 AM   
Karynn


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Quick note from another part of the peanut gallery,

I've heard rumors through the years that Norman did not write all of any of the books but used the books as a part of his overall teaching process and graduate students worked within the vein of thought he began and helps write whole sections of some of the books. Would that then mean at some point those students could take some parts they'd contributed and do a spin-off series (like Joey had his own series after Friends went off the air.)

K

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In all things, to thine own self be true.

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 7:51:54 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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I don't know if another could write the Gor books or not (aside from the copy right legalities).  I do think they could have been written better.  I found the books repetitive and after the first few, boring because of it.

If someone started a different series with similar erotic situations, but with more diversity and skill.  I would very likely buy the set.

My apologies to you die hard John Norman fans.  I just didn't find the books all that riveting.

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 8:38:39 AM   
Sepharus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karynn
I've heard rumors through the years that Norman did not write all of any of the books but used the books as a part of his overall teaching process and graduate students worked within the vein of thought he began and helps write whole sections of some of the books. Would that then mean at some point those students could take some parts they'd contributed and do a spin-off series (like Joey had his own series after Friends went off the air.)

Reguardless of persistant rumor, The books are credited to John Norman and are as such his intellectual property. Shy of one such "student" showing proof, most likely in the course of a lawsuit, that isnt likely to change. I would be hard pressed to believe that when Mr Norman was moving a new book a year that any student responsible would not have stepped up and cried plagarism.
However, to the topic of this thread, if one were to extract the philosophical substance of the series, and write an original piece based on simular themes....taking care to avoid the vernacular of gor, then it would not be a gorean fanfic nor an issue of copywrite....not unlike John Norman drawing on E.R. Bourroughs "John Carter"

I dont see the necessity however. If you want new gorean stories, there is a wealth of fanfic online, forums, chatrooms, and virtual worlds. The only benefit I could see to writing an actual book...would be the authors profit....or prestige. Neither of which seems to have the true author cranking out books every year anymore.





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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 8:41:12 AM   
kittinSol


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I think a computer could easily replicate Norman's style. There are "writing programs" out there that do just that. That's how the "Arlequin" collection is published.



_____________________________

And there was light... and her finger was on the switch.

Give the kid the pick of pips,
And give him all your stripes and ribbons.
Now he's sitting in his hole,
He might as well have buttons and bows.

~ Kate Bush

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 9:15:33 AM   
Anarrus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I found the books repetitive and after the first few, boring because of it.



Isn't it just possible that perhaps all the repetitivness that's prevalent in the books is there and used as a literary device (although agreeably a mundane one) for driving particular points home?
That's the way I see many of them, repeated for reason as if JN is saying by doing so " think about this, it's important, mull it over in your mind and examine why I'm repeating myself so much and maybe you'll learn something"
Certainly JN was and is an intelligent enough man to write without repeating himself so much. So in my opinion he must have done it with a greater purpose in mind.

Be well

Anarrus

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 10:48:55 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anarrus

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I found the books repetitive and after the first few, boring because of it.



Isn't it just possible that perhaps all the repetitivness that's prevalent in the books is there and used as a literary device (although agreeably a mundane one) for driving particular points home?
That's the way I see many of them, repeated for reason as if JN is saying by doing so " think about this, it's important, mull it over in your mind and examine why I'm repeating myself so much and maybe you'll learn something"
Certainly JN was and is an intelligent enough man to write without repeating himself so much. So in my opinion he must have done it with a greater purpose in mind.

Be well

Anarrus


I suppose if the books are read as a philosophical and educational reference, that is correct and a good point.  Those who read the books for those reasons, I'm comfident do come away with the point repetitively driven home.

As a work of fiction and recreational reading, I found them boring.

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 11:04:15 AM   
e01n


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance: As a work of fiction and recreational reading, I found them boring.
Agreed. And I have to admit that when I stumbled on them in my father's stash of joy, I had my eyes opened a bit... not by the writing, but by the ideas presented.

Then I graduated from high school.

Personally, I see the idea of having another author take up the mantle as quite good. Preferably someone with better literary skills or at least a better editor.

In fact, I see this as a personal challenge during NaNoWriMo - a 50k word Gorean hard-boiled/noir mystery. If anyone feels they have the chutzpah to put together a piece of fanfic in these parameters, hit me on the other side.

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 11:12:27 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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When it comes to making a Lifestyle choice, I prefer to do it informatively.  Weighing the pro's and con's and taking responsibility for my choices.   I do not embrace the concept of repetitive brainwashing as a healthy nor viable option for myself.

I prefer to give John Norman the benefit of the doubt and attribute his mundane references to his literary style, not any ulterior motivation.  From those I know who have spoken with John Norman himself, he has stated that he had no desire or expectation for his books to inspire a Liftestyle genre.  He was, however, kind enough to correct the rampant mispronunciation of kajira.


< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 8/30/2007 11:13:28 AM >

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 3:14:35 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Fast Reply:

This topic has so much bait in it, it smells of chum.

Orion

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 9:08:42 PM   
Ravin


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I appreciate everyones thought on the subject, there is alot of points from all sides of the "dice" so to speak.  Normans work was rated by some litary guild some time ago and for style it was not given relatively good marks due to his repetitive style and demeanor. Normans books can be read on several levels, that does seem to be agreed upon.

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 9:55:40 PM   
MistressDREAD


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Ha after having His work blacklisted for 20 years I don't think a literary guilds rating would bother Him any. There was a reason for His repetitive style. I would think that most Dominant type personalities would understand this style personally.
Thanks for the post Ravin.

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/30/2007 10:07:30 PM   
patina


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sepharus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karynn
I've heard rumors through the years that Norman did not write all of any of the books but used the books as a part of his overall teaching process and graduate students worked within the vein of thought he began and helps write whole sections of some of the books. Would that then mean at some point those students could take some parts they'd contributed and do a spin-off series (like Joey had his own series after Friends went off the air.)

Reguardless of persistant rumor, The books are credited to John Norman and are as such his intellectual property. Shy of one such "student" showing proof, most likely in the course of a lawsuit, that isnt likely to change. I would be hard pressed to believe that when Mr Norman was moving a new book a year that any student responsible would not have stepped up and cried plagarism.

[/quote ]


Greetings All:

For those who do not know, any time a student  that is registered in a class writes a paper for or to that instructor it becomes his property.  The students gives up all rights to it.  The Instructor can use it in a theises or whatever he choses.  By law,-- or so she was informed by the Dean of her college when questioned -- they become the property of the college and are awarded to that instructor for his own use, during the time he is teaching at that educational institute.  When he leaves he leaves all the paper he was given by the prior students.   So there are and an be no copyrite infrigement  by an instructor using students ideas. 

Now if a student writes a paper for another class or for his own personal use and allows the instructor to read it and he keeps it and uses the idea or parts of that writing then he has plagarized or stole from the student. 

She hopes this clears this up she has not done a legality check on this just went by what the Dean, instructors and others have said at her college and another one she talked with. 

peace be to all

patina 




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a diamond in the rough

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/31/2007 2:36:52 AM   
nephandi


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Greetings Master

Norman created the Gor world, it is his right to decide who writes books in his series, and i think it is his right both morally and by law. The same as Rowling created the Harry Potter world and it is her right to have control over the setter, in is hers, it is her creation.

i do think it is ok to write fan fiction. Norman have said he do not like it, and a few other authors have done so to, but for that i do not care. Fan fiction do not harm anyone. However fan fiction is written for fun, one do not earn money on it and one should always write a disclaimer giving credit for the setting to it's owner if one put such a fan fiction up on the net. Writing books, now that is something else, that is earing money on sombody else's hard work.

Note yes i know wiriting fan fiction is thecnically not legal, however i have always been one to suport the Spirit of the law and not the letter. i do not write fan fiction in this setting, however to those that do i personally find nothing morally wrong whit it as long as credit is given where it is due.

May i wish you well




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Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/31/2007 2:44:34 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


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having seen the debates on this thread, it seems to me that each Gorean person writes their own interpretation of the books, as it pertains to them.

that isnt a bad thing, just human nature.  and i really enjoy the debates yall have, most days...

the core beliefs are ones i can identify with, and the different interpretations of them make me think.

just the ramblings of someone on the perimeter......

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in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/31/2007 6:20:33 AM   
Ravin


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interested in information on Normans relationship with his teaching class is located at  http://www.dreamstrike.com/normancom.html 

I was going to cut and paste but instead offer up the location to preserve the creators of that page(s) right to their information, but in essence, Norman in the college courses that anon individual took never raised the issue of Gor in a teaching aspect.

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RE: Who, if anyone can write more "Gor" books... - 8/31/2007 10:34:06 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I don't know if another could write the Gor books or not (aside from the copy right legalities).  I do think they could have been written better.  I found the books repetitive and after the first few, boring because of it.


You're not the only one.

quote:


If someone started a different series with similar erotic situations, but with more diversity and skill.  I would very likely buy the set.


Terry Goodkind - "Sword of Truth"... Objectivism has a fair number of similarities.

If you want a richer setting, but less "preaching" and less erotica: Robert Jordan - "Wheel of Time".


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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