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- Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contracts - (Gorean Men Overextending )


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- Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contracts... - 9/13/2007 1:51:14 PM   
noyeh


Posts: 501
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline 		- Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contracts - (Gorean Men Overextending Their Circle of Steel )

Greetings Masters,
Greetings Mistresses,
Greetings fellow slaves,

I hear a lot of things about I would not let a slave do this and a slave do that. But what happens in the event you don't have anyone you can trust to handle your affairs while your out of the country? ( I hear a lot of worries about co-signing, legal contracts, marriages and other compromising legal situations.)

I see nothing wrong with leaving some kind of help from a slave if it is legally needed for special reasons.  I myself do not agree with marriage to a slave as it changes the dynamic's. To me it's not a issue about power at all.

My Master left me legal power of attorney to handle his affairs while he is in iraq. This is something that I did not relish but without it my Master and I both would have suffered so much unneeded hardships. There was nobody here in his present home but me to handle things that he could legally trust. He has been with me for 2 years and he trusts me.

The biggest problem or question I see in the power department is does the Master trust his slave? Or can he? Yes I can see a Master not legally giving any type of power over to a slave that was not neccassary if he did not trust her.

Many  a Master in the books left his first girl in charge of simple affairs if need be. Tarl Cabot aka Bosk had a simple plain slave girl that functioned as his scribe both as a Free Woman and as a slave. Because he could trust her. So I see nothing wrong with a slave Co-signing or having a Power of Attorney if she can be trusted.

Just because I have a power of attorney makes me no more important than any of my Masters other property. I am still just that and I never forget it either. I know the reason why I have what I have. Its because he trusts me and knows that I will not abuse the privilege he has granted me. It can be taken away just as fast. I also know its a neccassity for me to handle his affairs in his absense.

I used to be one that thought a slave should never have such affairs. And in its state there are those that should not have a power status when needed because they can't be trusted.

Once my Master returns home all powers will be canceled out and in fact I will create my own Power of Attorney reversing the power exchange so my Master has true control over any of my assets as he deems fit that he should have. By allowing me to have POA in his absense he is showing me he trusts me beyond a doubt as his slave to handle what needs to be taken cared of as a proper first girl would do.

I still ask how high I am to jump before doing anything. My Master gives me explicit instructions to what needs to be done if I have to use the POA. And trust me I have had to use it already to extend a loan for my Master. Its saved a lot of hardship for him financially. Me being there when he really needed me. So I can safely say my Master does not regret making this decision.

So there are times when a Master can overextend their circle of steel with reason. And there are real time reasons why it sometimes becomes a neccasity. Real life sometimes creates reasons when it needs to be extended. Especially when a Master has to be thousands of miles away from his property and his homestead. I speak of this from newly learned experience that sometimes real life makes it neccassary for a Master to make decisions he would normally frown upon. My Master and I are living it right now.
 
So really and truthfully there is no question of should they or could they. Its a matter of a Judgement call and the neccasity needed for the better of the Master and his home. If he needs his slave to legally step up to plate for him be it a POA or  Co-sign there should be no question about what he decides for his home. Its what the Master decides that works best for his home that matters. It matters not what others think of the situation or how the slaves feel about it. Its about what that Master is comfortable with and what best suits his homes needs.


wishing all well,

< Message edited by noyeh -- 9/13/2007 2:04:00 PM >

_____________________________

personal slave of Master Jeff the Seeker
His property slave slut and pet
His concubine/first girl of the House of the Seeker

noyeh-JtS-fg
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/13/2007 3:37:02 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Hello Noyeh:

I cant claim to know about others.. or even other people who claim the title of Gorean. I do know some people who have TPE relationships some call them Gorean some call them leather. They leave their day to day running of the home to their slaves when away for extended periods of time. They leave the over all managment of the home to a trusted equal an overseer so to speak.  In that household expenses are taken out a household account set up for that said purpose but for things like in the event of demise executors take charge of the house and the preset wishes of the Dominant are exercised. Things like living wills are in place, powers of attorney and so forth. Never would they put the submissive/slave in  a position in which they wouldnt have a support system in the event of emergency or tragedy.. its all about responsible Ownership.  I dont think its that they believe that their slaves are incapable of rational sound judgement, rather that the slave becomes so immersed in the D/s context that they need, crave .. require a guiding hand.. that that is their comfort zone and why do all the work to get them there only to say .. OPPPs ...now go be independent Ive got to go away for an extended period.

Regards
SD

< Message edited by Sylverdawn -- 9/13/2007 3:38:34 PM >

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to noyeh)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/13/2007 3:38:23 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Tal Noyeh,

I'm not sure if this topic stems from the contract of marriage agreement or not. But if a man hands you a POA to execute his bidding in his absence, that would not be a contract that he entered into with you so much as a contract he created for the legal authorities. It is a solid avenue in which he can excersise his duties to his home in his physical absence.

I see no reason he should not do this, considering the legal system in which he operates.So long as it leaves you no jurisdiction over him and doesn't leave you entitled to any of his properties it is a prudent move to insure fluid operation of his home. He simply allows you under his direction to execute duties in his absence. That is all well and enough.

Serve well,

Bull

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to noyeh)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/13/2007 5:02:03 PM   
Kallikrates


Posts: 37
Joined: 4/9/2007
Status: offline 		Tal Bull,

thanks for pointing this out.

I wish you well!
Kallikrates

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/13/2007 5:06:07 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Noyeh,

Legally it works, convenience wise it works, but could it be working outside the Gorean mindset of what a slave is?  I don't know.  Here is why.

I am going to use what you have stated here as well as pull from other things you have said in the past to ask something to express my example.  Seeing your Master has FM of Gorean Nature (based on many times you have posted that you have done stuff with Free Men), why he would not allow one of them power of attorney, afterall, if you live through what is Gorean, would that not be the most logical step for a Man who not only calls himself Gorean but has Gorean brothers close at hand which many do not?  This way the slave would, in my opinion, seriously get the concept of slave and it would be a very Gorean thing for a Gorean Man to do when he has but a slave?  Why would your Master not give power of attorney into the hands of a close male relative or friend, instead of simply a slave - especially if you are not married?  POA's for a woman who is a slave living in the home of a Man is simply a convenience, what would he do if she were not living with him or he did not have a slave.  So does using the convenience hold within the concept of slavery, sure, but on some level does it hold with what is the relationship between a Man and his slave?  By your own words you feel he trusts you, that does confuse me, because it implies if he did turn to a FM to handle his affairs instead of his slave it would imply he didn't trust her enough.  I don't agree.  I would see it as he simply was treating her as a slave, who needed be involved in business of the Free.

Would not a Gorean Man feel more comfortable with a Gorean Man who is a close friend handling what he normally would than a slave?  I guess is do Gorean Men seriously view slaves as they did on Gor?  Would him reying on a Gorean Man intead of a slave not be more along the lines of living within the concepts of Gor versus utilizing our society to give his slave powers over things she normally would not have? 

While i am not sure what trust would have to do with it, i would find it unnatural for a Man to keep a slave he didn't trust, i am not sure it is absolutely a necessity for a Gorean Man to give his slave power of attorney (especially when she is not his wife), when he probably has a Free person whom he trusts also.   Iwould think it was more of a convenience of what our society allows him to do within a woman having rights. 

Would not it be more within the keeping of a slave to turn to a Brother who is Gorean or a Male relative to execute necessities in his absence than his slave?  Is not giving his slave POA's simply more convenient but not really a necessity?  I wouldn't see it as he didn't trust his slave if he relied on a Gorean FM to help him out in such a situation, i would simply see it as a Gorean Man keeping her as a slave and turning to Free to handle such aspects (just as he would if he were there) while he could not.    So i am lost as to why you believe its a trust your Master puts in you, if it had to do with trust, would he not allow you this power while he was there?  Not sure if this makes sense. 

I hope i asked this correctly.  The reason i brought it up was because i also was going to as a POA question today, not based on a Man giving his slave, but what if a slave is asked to take POA of their parents if they ever have need.  Would you as a Man 1) allow it, 2) say yes, but then make all the decisions for her even if they were not your parents, or 3) say yes, and not interfere but advise her when she requests assistance in figureing something out.

angel



< Message edited by barelynangel -- 9/13/2007 5:13:07 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/13/2007 5:18:05 PM   
noyeh


Posts: 501
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Master SD,

I see no reason why a slave can't be left in charge. I am the only one in his household. Yes he has friends but none he has known longer than me. He makes sure I am taken cared of as I am his property. He did not just say ooops play independent either. He basically left me to use my brain and to serve him in his absense and taking care of what is his is part of a slaves duties. He is serving proudly overseas so that he has the money to buy a house someday. And if a slave is not willing to be there for him and take care of things as told to do then what good is a slave to her Master?

A slave even if she is just that should be one that the Master can trust when things needs to be done and to the utmost of the slaves ability even if it means leaving her alone with his or her things. My Master trusts me fully and I am fully capable of taking care of his things because they are his and its my way of serving him while he is gone.  My Master also views me as family. If I don't take care of his things I in the long run will hurt for not properly doing so. I full know the coniquences if I don't.


Greetings Master Bull,

I agree with you most of the way except for one thing. No a POA is not the same thing as marriage but just like a spouse in some ways I do have some rights to conduct business for my Master minus the priveleges of marriage. I can sign his signature to anything. However even though it is not the same kinda contract as marriage.  It is needless to say a legal contract. It is a contract to what I can and can't do in his name. Which there is basiclly nothing that I can't do in his name.

A POA is a contract and is legal its signed by both parties and noterized and is witnessed. Its a contract giving me full rights to do his bidding in his name and also gives me legal right to handle all financial things including opening and closing bank accounts. No I do not consider myself in control of his assests but by law when I signed it and he signed it and it was notorized it put me in full control just like I was him while he is away.

Unlike marriage though. The contract can be ended by just him ripping up the papers in front of a witness and announcing it is null and void. That is all it takes to end a power of attorney. Very simple. But only a trusted person should be permitted this type of contract because A person with this kind of legal paper work can ruin the person they are POA for. So only a person that can be trusted should ever be put in a position be it a slave or a Free. Picking the wrong one can make you or break you.

However mind you I treat the contract my Master created as only a extension for him when he needs business done. If a slave is not married to her Master and she can be trusted it is very good for her to have one if he is going to be away for a extended period of time for the sake of running the household. Without it I would have suffered some dire problems. Because he is in iraq and he can't just handle the utilities if they get shut off or something. I have too and without the power of attorney I can't handle financial business for him if it is needed right away. 

He does not have access to overnight mailing systems or phones like we do. He needs me to be fully functional for the house. Even if he had a Free to appoint to do so its easier for him to appoint me because if I receive a letter for something to be done right then and there I can do it and it just plain makes it easier for his household to run if someone in the house holds this status till his return. Plain and simple.

We have a gorean friend that is in school right now. He and his house is suffering because he did not prepare his household with such things. Its making it harder on his girls because they have no legal power to handle business for him while he is gone and its been a struggle for him. Even he agrees he had done so before he came out here. He regrets it now. There are just some things that need to be done and a POA does not compromise the house as long as the slave is trustworthy. It saves a lot of heartaches and troubles and time wasted being on the phone or writing letters trying to get things fixed when you can have someone right there fix it for you.

wishing all well,

_____________________________

personal slave of Master Jeff the Seeker
His property slave slut and pet
His concubine/first girl of the House of the Seeker

noyeh-JtS-fg

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/13/2007 5:23:49 PM   
noyeh


Posts: 501
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings barely,

As good as it would to have a Gorean Master friend do this for my Master. This would not work. Because I have to make drop of the hat decisions for my Master when they need to be done I am not his wife. He takes care of me and he may be away for periods of time where I may have to handle his bank account and bills. I am the one that lives with the lights gas and rent being paid if a untrustworthy person took my place then I suffer and my Master suffers. Though I am not his wife it allows me to think for my Master when it needs to be done. I know my Master better than anyone and I know when and if something needs to be done legally.

No unwarranted things need to be done that I or he does not know about. He knows every move I make. It just works better having me handle it because I am living in his house-hold. As  I said before there is nothing wrong with a slave taking care of matters while her or his Master is away as long as she is trustworthy. That is a part of what being a slave is about following her Masters orders even if it is giving her or him legal powers to do so. This is the real world not the fictional place of Gor. Its always better if you can to have someone in the very household your from handling matters. My Master considers me family even though  I am his slave and he trusts me with all that he is. And I would never do anything to break his trust.

_____________________________

personal slave of Master Jeff the Seeker
His property slave slut and pet
His concubine/first girl of the House of the Seeker

noyeh-JtS-fg

(in reply to noyeh)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 5:19:09 AM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Hello Noyeh

Thank you for the appellation.. incorrect though it maybe.  I didnt say you couldnt.. I was simply stating how Ive seen it done.. and now that you have so kindly pointed out that you dont what any opinion that doesnt agree with your own I will hush.

SD

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to noyeh)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 6:44:02 AM   
donnaamarie


Posts: 335
Joined: 9/7/2007
Status: offline 		greetings noyeh,

I was having a conversation with my Master this morning regarding many issues pertaining to finances.  At one point we discussed that his job would be offering up medical insurance in the very near future.  Right now he is without medical or dental insurance but can easily use a Veterans Hospital in the case of emergency.  He jokingly said "marry me" because my insurance is far better than anything he may be getting, as well as being free through my employer.  My 2 boys and I are covered under it now.   At this point neither of us really wish to get married.  We've been together 4 1/2 years with only a collar around my neck, and not around my finger.  However, in the future should his health reach a point where medical insurance was a clear necessity, marriage wouldn't be out of the question.

I wonder how this would work in terms of the topic?  Would my Master be taking something from me and giving me power in the relationship?  I don't see it as that.  It would be a necessity, something I can give to him that would add to the way that I serve him.  Would his inability to provide his own medical insurance make him less of a Gorean man?

Just some thoughts.

donna

p.s. i had originally posted this on the "Gorean men extending their steel" post, but realized it was only for Free Men.  I put it here hoping that there is some connection, not wanting to start yet another post on the same subject.

< Message edited by donnaamarie -- 9/16/2007 6:50:50 AM >

_____________________________

Life is not about waiting for storms to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.

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RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 7:51:35 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		This is one of the things prenuptuals can cover.

Again, as Bull said, it's a contract between the master and the state.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to donnaamarie)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 9:09:22 AM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Tal to the Free and property,
Greetings noyeh,
First let me thank your Master for his service! May he come home to you safe and whole and find victory in Iraq.
One of the things I love about Goreans is their belief in doing what's right for themselves. "They march to the tune of their own drum." What's right for your Master may not be right for another Master. I don't believe that everything one Gorean Free does should be done by all Gorean Free. Their are things that are universal between all Gorean Free such as belief in Natural Order, Male supremacy, honoring codes, etc. but in day to day living each decides what's best for themself.
I wish you well,
TM4Y

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to noyeh)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 9:49:34 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		A conceptual (if not practical) issue with a POA...

If a slave can sign her owner's name to anything, with the power of his word, it would stand to reason she has the power to sign her own release.  It is handing the keys to the jail to the inmates.

It's simply an issue where the idea of consensual slavery, as we practice it, do not meet with the reality of slavery.  It's an echo of the schism between those who believe they can marry their slaves, and those who believe otherwise.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Totalmaster4you)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 10:09:27 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings Master

But then as the only slavery legal in the west are consensual slavery, it do not matter what my Master give me or not, i could just walk out the door and if he tried to stop me he would be braking the law. Consensual slavery is a cooperation between the Master and the slave, so yes letting the slave handle a bit of the finances or co sign a contract might give her a little more power, in truth the slave have quite a bit of power given to her by sosiety, and she can not give up that right, all she can do in a Master/slave relationship is choose and promise not to use it.

May i wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 10:48:37 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

Greetings Master

But then as the only slavery legal in the west are consensual slavery, it do not matter what my Master give me or not, i could just walk out the door and if he tried to stop me he would be braking the law. Consensual slavery is a cooperation between the Master and the slave, so yes letting the slave handle a bit of the finances or co sign a contract might give her a little more power, in truth the slave have quite a bit of power given to her by sosiety, and she can not give up that right, all she can do in a Master/slave relationship is choose and promise not to use it.

May i wish you well



Girl,

Possession is 9/10ths of the law.  I think you'd find it very difficult to escape slavery as easily as you seem to assert it.  My slave knows well that she may either beg release (and possibly be afforded my assistance in her transition back to freedom) or she may revoke consent; meaning her ass is, literally, out the door, wearing the clothes on her back.

Should I have returned from an extended trip, to find she has signed over my house, car, and possessions to herself, it's pretty clear who's ass would be out the door.  This is where the concept of slavery simply does not meet with the reality of consensual slavery. 

Personally, I wouldn't collar a slave to be my own, if I could not trust her with everything I owned.  On the other hand, I won't give my collared slave keys (literal or figurative) to anything she does not absolutely require to perform her duties.  In noyeh's example, I would have done as her owner did.  I'm just pointing out it's a hefty risk, and not a situation I would have welcomed; not because I do not trust her, but because I believe that it forces a huge psychological strain on the ties that bind our relationship together.  The irony, is that this is something I may very well have to consider in the coming year or three.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 1:51:47 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings Master

i do not know how it works in USA but in Norway had i chosen to leave i could have gone to any number of crisis centers, i would have been given a place to sleep, help wjot money for food until i could find a job. i know it is not this way in all over the world but in Norway at least while i might have had to abandon the things i have now, and it would be a bit thight for a while, i would in no way starve, and that is just what is legaly affored to me. Most pepole also have family that can help if they are put on the street, or friends. my point is not to question how you look at it or how you do things Master. i am just poining out that in most cases the slave's own desire to be slave, and sometimes psycological factors are holding her slave, legally she can leave at any time so that a M/s relationship neccesarily becomes a coperation between the Master and the slave.

May i wish you well.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 5:43:36 PM   
Kateryn


Posts: 17
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Possession is 9/10ths of the law.  I think you'd find it very difficult to escape slavery as easily as you seem to assert it. 


 
By the favor of the Free, this one could not help but reply here...
not only could this girl not free herself, her Master has indeed many times indicated she will NEVER be freed, not even if she begs for her freedom, which she has done a time or two.  Walking away is simply out of the question, and does not enter her mind.  This girl's Owner is right when He told her... she can walk away... but she will always come running back.  This girl's internal enslavement is such that she is slave to the core.  Anything this girl owns "legally" by society, under her conditioning... is by rights her Master's not her own.  Further, this girl's owner did put a ring on her finger, as well as the collar on her neck, for financial reasons and for the reasons of society's view of our lives together.  The girl was not given a choice in this, she was simply told this is what was going to happen, and it did happen.  It is always Master's choice in these things, and the Master's choose what is the best thing for them and for their household, plain and simple.  The Master's are always right.
kateryn

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 7:54:17 PM   
noyeh


Posts: 501
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline 		A conceptual (if not practical) issue with a POA...

If a slave can sign her owner's name to anything, with the power of his word, it would stand to reason she has the power to sign her own release.  It is handing the keys to the jail to the inmates.

It's simply an issue where the idea of consensual slavery, as we practice it, do not meet with the reality of slavery.  It's an echo of the schism between those who believe they can marry their slaves, and those who believe otherwise.

Stephan


Greetings Master Stephen,

(I am gorean kajira and I agree to do what my Master tells me and I agree to be rightless. But by court of law what I have agreed too would not stand up in a court. I am not saying what I am saying to disrespect you or any Free here. I am just stating what is the truth by court of law. I humbly apologize now before hand if any Gorean Free are offended by what I state.)


A POA means nothing to a slave. It is merely there to serve the purpose of handling  his business legally while my Master is out of the country.(extend a loan for Master handle the utilities, manage is bank account if needed...etc) And as far as signing my name to walk out of his life? There is no written contract to cancel out only a verbal agreement. Goreans don't do "slave contracts" and if there were one it would not be legal in this country unless it was a certificate of marriage.  And even then I can walk out the door at my own choosing without a POA.

A slave contract is not recognized by a court of law so I would not "need" a POA to legally sign myself a "freedom slip". Last I heard chattel slavery was illegal in the good ole USA. There is and only ever can be Consensual slavery. Any other form is illegal and can cause issues for the Owner of said slave if he held her by force. Up to and including imprisonment and fines. The penalities are severe. This is why My Master always makes sure that I know that I can walk should I ever decide I don't want to be with him.

Which won't happen. I am his. He collared what matters most my heart so I won't be walking anytime soon if ever. As far as the POA goes it better helps me serve him while he is away from home. The other day I lost the interenet connection. This is our main means of communication. I had to go and use the power of attorney to put my name on the account to get it fixed. Without it I would have been up the creek with no paddle. Also I had to extend a loan for my Master so he could have extra money till he got his first pay check.

Its easier for me to handle all this then having to run to someone and get them to sign everytime I need something done they have lives also. I do not view myself has having anymore power than I had before my Master left. I just view myself as serving him fully and completely. I have nothing to hamper me from serving him while he is gone. No excuses. He knows it and I know it.

And as far as  answering the handing of key's to a inmate. Did you know that "Angola State Penitentrary" issued rifles to inmates back in the older days and assigned them to towers? There were fewer escapes back then then there is now. A fact. The death rate was higher but very few escaped back then. So fearing a slave could run when the door is already open when you hand her the "key's Is pointless. Even if she did not have the key's the door is already open for her to run.  Whats stopping her? More than likely her heart.


ORIGINAL: Stephann

Possession is 9/10ths of the law.  I think you'd find it very difficult to escape slavery as easily as you seem to assert it. 

Possession is only  9/10th's of the law if someone abandon's something on your property and does not come back for it. Otherwise it is stealing.  A person's life is not legally yours not even through marriage. If a person wants to walk away from you in real there is nothing your or anyone can do about it legally. If she signs stuff over to you? Sure it is legally yours if it is a legal contract granting you property of her stuff. This you can get away with. But legally you can't steal anything from her if there is no contract.

A Judge would laugh at you if you took her to court over anything she owned prior to moving in with you. Slave or not.  And you certainly can't hold anyone by force. This is the real world and not a fantasy world where Me Tarzan You Jane!! You do what I say or I cage you!! You try and cage someone without their consent it is considered forced and illegal holding and imprisonment of a citizen with legal rights!! I am gorean kajira and I agree to do what my Master tells me and I agree to be rightless as his slave. I am what I am by heart in my heart its legal but by court of law what I have agreed too would not stand up in a court. I am not saying what I am saying to disrespect you or any Free here. I am just stating what is the truth by court of law.

wishing all well,






_____________________________

personal slave of Master Jeff the Seeker
His property slave slut and pet
His concubine/first girl of the House of the Seeker

noyeh-JtS-fg

(in reply to Kateryn)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 8:40:28 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		girl,

This being the case, why bother with slavery at all then?  If there is no legal, moral, societal, or community face to save or keep, it would seem that all that exists is a delusion of slavery, no?

Hence the 'conceptual' problem with a POA; the POA undermines the suspension of disbelief that exists in all consensual Master/slave relationships.  After all, since there aren't any 'real' chattel here, we must be operating under fantasy yes?

My point is not that a POA is wrong; my point is that it's detrimental to an M/s relationship. 

As for possession, if the lease is in my name, and my 'girlfriend/slave' terminates the relationship, and (states depend here) I want her to leave, I legally need to evict her.  If she walks out the door, and I change the locks, then we're dealing with a whole other issue; without records, receipts, or proof, it's unlikely she'll recover so much as a sock when she vacated.  This really isn't a major point to discuss here, though.  When my slave and I split, she begged release, I eventually granted it, and we maintain a friendship even today.  I'm only pointing out that I could have made her life much, much more difficult had she simply walked out.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to noyeh)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 9:32:58 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Stephan,

If the will of the owner is such that a girl could not exercise her rights, then it does not matter. I believe many things have the possibility to undermine the relationship, but this is where extraordinary Men will show that though those rights may be there, the slave will still follow absolute obedience. It will depend upon case by case. A POA can be a possible pitfall if not handled properly, but in some cases it is needed, though the cases should stay rare. In the particular case of the House of the Seeker, Jeff knows that he has brothers to call upon if in his absense he needs his house set right, but with the girl he has left in charge, I doubt that would be necessary.

Each incident will be different, and I agree that in general giving a POA to a slave, is not something I would normally recommend. In this particular case, it shows that there can be an exception, and the rule is still intact.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

girl,

This being the case, why bother with slavery at all then?  If there is no legal, moral, societal, or community face to save or keep, it would seem that all that exists is a delusion of slavery, no?

Hence the 'conceptual' problem with a POA; the POA undermines the suspension of disbelief that exists in all consensual Master/slave relationships.  After all, since there aren't any 'real' chattel here, we must be operating under fantasy yes?

My point is not that a POA is wrong; my point is that it's detrimental to an M/s relationship. 

As for possession, if the lease is in my name, and my 'girlfriend/slave' terminates the relationship, and (states depend here) I want her to leave, I legally need to evict her.  If she walks out the door, and I change the locks, then we're dealing with a whole other issue; without records, receipts, or proof, it's unlikely she'll recover so much as a sock when she vacated.  This really isn't a major point to discuss here, though.  When my slave and I split, she begged release, I eventually granted it, and we maintain a friendship even today.  I'm only pointing out that I could have made her life much, much more difficult had she simply walked out.

Stephan


_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: - Gorean Men, slaves and sometimes neccassary contr... - 9/16/2007 9:40:04 PM   
noyeh


Posts: 501
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters Stephan,

There are many reason's to remain as I am. Because I know in my heart what I am. But the fact is this is not a fantasy world. My take on it is, "What your stating is if there is not fantasy world why be a slave or a Master." I don't nor does my Master live in a fantasy world. We know there are some things that hamper the fullness of a true gorean Master slave relationship. We live by the philosophies we do not play at being gorean. My Master knows there are some things are just not possible. He makes sure that I am clear on this and understands this. He makes sure I live with a sane sound mind. He makes sure each day that I am aware of what I am and what my rights are. To him I am a rightless slut that does his bidding. To the outside world I have as many rights as any other citizen of the United States. Common sense comes into order in real life.

There is nothing detrimental  in a Gorean relationship about him creating a POA for me to handle his business while he is out of country. It does not effect our relationship one bit. In fact it would keep me from being hampered from doing things he needs me to do. He is just as in control of me as he ever was. I know my standing in his house and if I forget it He knows how to handle me. He has gorean friends right now that he can send to the house and they can very well spank me. The point is he created the POA the way it is for convience. Its easier and quicker for me to handle things because I am in the household.

Someone outside the household may very well say, Oh well it will get done when I feel like it.  Sometimes things need to be done quicker than I could go to someone to handle it. When it might be dire that it gets done at the drop of the hat. My Master needs that dependability.  He has that in me and he knows it. Not saying anyone outside the house could not do just as good a job. Its how my Master prefers it. And that is his god given right to do as he pleases wether others think it is right or not.

And as far as evicting a girl. If she lives with you legally by law you have to give her 14 days to find a place to go. This law applies in most states. Other states may require a longer period of time up to 30 days.You can't just put her out and lock her out of her possessions. That is stealing. (I highly doubt a girl is going to walk out of the house without her things. You would probably be stuck calling the cops to try and kick her out.) Period and she can take you to court and get them should you choose to do that. I doubt seriously if a Judge would believe a Man would wear a girls dress that possibly could not fit him. Unless of course your into that sort of thing.


wishing you well,



_____________________________

personal slave of Master Jeff the Seeker
His property slave slut and pet
His concubine/first girl of the House of the Seeker

noyeh-JtS-fg

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 20
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