RE: "Easy" to be...?

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RE: "Easy" to be...? - 10/6/2007 6:37:55 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
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Greetings Kimveri,

I have been thinking about this topic, as it relates to others that I have started.

So what does it takes to be a Gorean Free? Some of the females in the books have gone from Free Woman to slave, and vice versa. Can someon actually for from Gorean Free to slave as well?

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kimveri

G'morning, folks,

I keep encountering statements to the effect that a kajira without a collar is a Gorean Free Woman. This confuses me. In speaking with Un on this, I posed a question that he felt might promote thought & thus was worthy of posting. The question is as follows:

Is a kajirus without a collar a Gorean Free Man?

I keep thinking it can't be that easy to be a Free Gorean.

I wish you all well,

~Kimveri

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Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.

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RE: "Easy" to be...? - 10/6/2007 10:06:35 AM

ameenah

Posts: 164
Joined: 11/29/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kimveri

I have always taken this, in context, to mean that being released from a specific individual owner does not necessarily mean the girl will no longer be mastered, merely no longer claimed (“owned”) by that individual.With all that said, I do still think that a slave who has been released from
a man’s collar would indeed become free (but not a Gorean Free Woman) if she is no longer subjected to mastery by any men. It may be a painful process, feeling that condition fade & being unable to stop, or even slow, its loss. For some women, I would think that would be a bit like bleeding to death slowly. Because of this, I have long felt that it is incumbent on Gorean men to exercise mastery over those slaves who find themselves uncollared. I would think it the ethical & humane thing to do.

I wish you most well, & enough,

~Kimveri

Mistress Kimveri,
Thank you for your sentiments above. ameenah has thought about the girls who, for whatever reason, have found themselves released. To ameenah, if Master Orion released ameenah, that would be the same as killing the girl he has made (and is still in the process of making me to be.) Yes, that would be akin to slowly bleeding to death.

Master has recently started to refer to such slaves as 'strays'... they are still what they are... slaves, but they are without an owner, and much like a stray, find themselves struggling to survive. We see several of them here on the collarme boards. ameenah wonders Mistress, why don't the Free address this problem? Perhaps there should be some organized place for such girls to go under the direction of a Master and/or Mistress to help them in the interim, and then to eventually, place them in a home of a Gorean Man.

Honestly, if ameenah lost her Master, she would be a total mess of a girl. I can't imagine others are so very much different than myself.

Thank you for your thoughts, Mistress,
~ameenah{Orion}

< Message edited by ameenah -- 10/6/2007 10:07:41 AM >

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RE: "Easy" to be...? - 10/8/2007 11:57:18 AM

Unbuilder

Posts: 131
Joined: 7/8/2007
From: Alaska
Status: offline

Tal, Orion

The OP did, and does, relate to some of your posts. It could easily have been made in response to your post re: status, rank etc. The use of caps regarding Free Goreans of either gender was intentional, to indicate the difference between those that are really free, and those that are not owned.

quote:

So what does it takes to be a Gorean Free?

Ahhhh, the $64,000 question. For thousands of years, philosophers have been exhorting humans to accept the fact that they are intrinsicly free. While most of the earlier philosophers that I'm aware of seemed to be addressing men (perhaps because the biologically imperative differences between men and women were taken for granted) Norman also includes women. *I* think that recognising those biological imperatives while at the same time accepting the intrinsic freedom of both genders, is the factor that makes "Gorean Philosophy" different from the ideas of other philosophers. Perhaps there have been others who said much the same things. It doesn't seem reasonable to assume that in the space of time between Thales and the present day nobody has addressed that aspect. On the other hand, Lange was awarded a doctorate, based on a thesis which, as I understand it, required an original thought.

In my mind, based on my reading of the Gor series, that is the qualifier that makes Gorean Philosophy unique.

As I see it, there are those people who conciously recognise that they are able to choose their path in life. Their fullfillment is in choosing to live their life to the maximum. I refer to those people as Free.

Then, there are those people who are satisfied to "get by", making choices that are based on what's easiest to earn instead of what's the most rewarding. I refer to those people as free.

And there is another group of people, who aren't able, or willing, to choose to live by any set of self actualizing values. Their lives are lived by value sets that are imposed on them by others. Yes Virginia, there really are slaves.

Taken together, a Gorean Free would be one who recognises that they have the ability to live their life to the maximum within the biological imperatives of their gender, while at the same time, recognising that there are biological imperatives. Men are not the same as Women. The gender imperatives that apply to men aren't the same as the imperatives that apply to women.

I wish you well

Un

_____________________________

In an endless universe, lie infinite opportunities, *anything is possible.
I am the man that I have chosen to become, for better or worse, the credit is mine, as well as the blame.
Objectivity should be a tool with two edges, one for you, one for me.

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RE: "Easy" to be...? - 10/8/2007 1:59:37 PM

Kimveri

Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
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Howdy, ally!

quote:

ORIGINAL: allyC
a woman who embraces the part of the Gorean philosophy that encourages self-reliance, autonomy, and the "greatness" of freedom and strives to live her life within that belief is indeed (in my opinion) a "Gorean" free woman.

Indeed, & this would be just as true of a man as well.

The question of whether this is easy to accomplish is what I'm struggling to get at. I find that some people feel that because it arises from one's primal nature that it must be "easy". This does not seem to be the case to me. In our current culture(s) expressing one's nature is rarely accomodated by those around us, let alone facillitated. We are swimming upstream.

It may be simple, but I do not think it is "easy". As I have said before, if it's "easy", then someone ain't doing the work!

Serve him with grace & fire,

~Kimveri

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"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

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RE: "Easy" to be...? - 10/8/2007 2:05:14 PM

Kimveri

Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
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Afternoon, Orion,

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Can someon actually for from Gorean Free to slave as well?

Yes, in my opinion, that is possible. I think all it takes is a choice to master that person backed by a will stronger than theirs. Of course, the process may not be immediately successful, especially if they resist. ;-D

Well wishes to you & yours,

~Kimveri

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"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

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RE: "Easy" to be...? - 10/8/2007 2:39:25 PM

Kimveri

Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
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Hello, ameenah,

quote:

ORIGINAL: ameenah
Mistress Kimveri,
Thank you for your sentiments above.

You are most welcome, ameenah.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ameenah
ameenah wonders Mistress, why don't the Free address this problem? Perhaps there should be some organized place for such girls to go under the direction of a Master and/or Mistress to help them in the interim, and then to eventually, place them in a home of a Gorean Man.

This is a difficult dilemma to address, ameenah. Firstly, you have the issue of geographical distances. The "strays" (Thanks, Orion -- great term) live in all areas of the world. That would mean the sole "place" available to them all would necessarily be online. Online is fraught with deception, misunderstanding & misinterpretation. Helping someone navigate through all of that when they are already "wounded" (via release) is a weighty responsibility. It provides little opportunity for the guidance, warmth & connection needed to encourage real healing, let alone the ability to move forward to better things.

Secondly, to offer such a chance at actual healing, one would need to be offline with these "strays". Considering the depth of their vulnerability, could anyone expect them to uproot themselves in order to literally go place themselves under the guidance of someone new, someone they may not know well enough to trust to the degreee needed to let down their guard?

Also, what about the investment of time, energy & so on that such free person(s) would be laying out for these "strays"? What measure of caution/care is sufficient to protect those "healers" from the occassional "stray" who balks? There is the chance that a wounded female of this sort may well attack those who seek to aid her, merely out of fear of greater pain.

Who helps those who help?

Then you have the opposite scenario -- the person who only wears the mask of "healer" in order to prey upon the wounded & hopeful. Also, there is the female who wears the mask of "wounded slave" to enact some malicious agenda. There are some truly excellent pretenders & some extremely twisted people in the world, I assure you. :-\

It may sound harsh, ameenah...& it is harsh...but release is where the girl's own determination to survive, to keep seeking a master, comes into play. Either she has the strength to keep going, or she is lost, to the community at large as well as to herself.

It has to be done case-by-case -- at the choosing of each free person who decides a specific "stray" is worth the time & risk. It's the same for the girls -- each "stray" must decide where she can get the guidance she needs to heal & continue.

Serve him well,

~Kimveri

{formatting improved when...}

< Message edited by Kimveri -- 10/8/2007 2:40:50 PM >

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