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The BDSM community has done more to make Gor and other kink subcultures safe, legal and informed than you guys ever have. Were you guys responsible for getting the DSM definitions changed? (Allowing us all to practice our kinks without the threat of being declared mentally ill.) When did Gor spearhead the push for safe sex information and classes during the AIDS era? Do you guys ever have demos on how to practice things safely? Do you do any kind of outreach to the vanilla community, to teach others what you are all about? Have you worked to establish a legal support foundation for people in the kink lifestyle who have been unfairly harrassed by the authorities?

The simple fact is, BDSM is the sub-culture that came into being, allowing your group to exist in the first place. Maybe you guys shouldn't bitch about it too much.

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ORIGINAL: bipolarber
The BDSM community has done more to make Gor and other kink subcultures safe, legal and informed than you guys ever have. Were you guys responsible for getting the DSM definitions changed? (Allowing us all to practice our kinks without the threat of being declared mentally ill.) When did Gor spearhead the push for safe sex information and classes during the AIDS era? Do you guys ever have demos on how to practice things safely? Do you do any kind of outreach to the vanilla community, to teach others what you are all about? Have you worked to establish a legal support foundation for people in the kink lifestyle who have been unfairly harrassed by the authorities?  

The simple fact is, BDSM is the sub-culture that came into being, allowing your group to exist in the first place.

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I am aware that my desires to be owned property are not a sign of mental health, and I do not presume to be sane on that count.

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ORIGINAL: bipolarber

I'm not Gorean. The argument that it's not a valid "philosophy" because of it's fantasy novel origins doesn't wash. It doesn't matter WHERE the idea comes from, it's how well it stacks up against the competeing ideas. (If we were to discard ideas based on their fantasy book origins, christianity would be one of the first to fall.)

No, I have no problem giving goreans respect, even though I do not share their beliefs. I will give them respect the same way I do everyone else on the face of the planet: on an individual basis, based on their actions.

I will say this much though: I can't give much respect to some of the people who have posted on this thread. You demand respect from others, yet you call them a "freak show?" You feel that you are somehow superior to others, because they allow more personal freedom of sexual expression within their community, while you severly limit it via your "philosophy" in yours? BDSM may seem more chaotic to you, but I think you are confusing chaos with tollerance and diversity. The BDSM community has done more to make Gor and other kink subcultures safe, legal and informed than you guys ever have. Were you guys responsible for getting the DSM definitions changed? (Allowing us all to practice our kinks without the threat of being declared mentally ill.) When did Gor spearhead the push for safe sex information and classes during the AIDS era? Do you guys ever have demos on how to practice things safely? Do you do any kind of outreach to the vanilla community, to teach others what you are all about? Have you worked to establish a legal support foundation for people in the kink lifestyle who have been unfairly harrassed by the authorities?  

The simple fact is, BDSM is the sub-culture that came into being, allowing your group to exist in the first place. Maybe you guys shouldn't bitch about it too much. 

If Gor as a community is having problems with gaining respect, maybe there's an underlying reason? Like maybe Goreans have this obnoxious attitude about being "superior?"

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i have never seen going against the norm as being insane. If so most famous pepole in history that are remembered would be insane. Yes much of the normal, concervative sosiety do not accsept such things, that do not mean one is mentaly ill if one want them.

i like the definition of insanity that is used in Norway, that if you belive or want or generally if you mind work much differently from the general norm of you sosiety AND if this causes you problem or discomfort or causes problems for others. You are not insane then by going again the norm, strange, perhaps, insane, no.

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ORIGINAL: ygraine

Hey Babs, you crazy rabble rouser!
I thought about your OP, and I have to say, I know plenty of BDSM people that I respect as much as those with the Gorean moniker.  Some of my very dear friends are BDSM.  I think I have more in common with those of a Gorean bent, but I dont think there is a higher level of respect there.  I truly feel, and I have discussed this with many, that just because someone says "I am Gorean", doesn't really mean much.  The proof is in knowledge of the person over time, not in the label they chose.  I meet people who call themselves "Gorean" and I find them wanting.  I meet people who have no labels and I find knowing them exhilerating.  It is all about each individual to me.
Take care of you!
Y

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ORIGINAL: Zarius
The reasons goreans havent led a vanguard for equality is quite simple in my judgment, they arent organized as BDSM'ers are. They dont have Munches, Sloshes, Large or Medium events.

Goreans normally choose to congregate in numbers of less than 30 at the largest.  Now those that call themselves gorean, and are into a Master/slave relationship, might nominally qualify to fit under the BDSM umbrella of letters, on a basic level of Mastery and slavery, which BDSM and Leathermen practice. Yet, the Master/slave aspects diverge quickly in my judgment after the basics of Master and Slave. Goreans define M/s a bit differently, and choose to do so proudly. 

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Outside of the M/s portions of being a gorean, there is absolutely NO connection to BDSM as you like to define it. 

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ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

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ORIGINAL: Kirata
It sounds to me like plain old political correctness. If one group demands more respectful conduct from its participants than a second group, then in the matter of the level of respectful conduct expected the first group can fairly be said to set a higher standard. That doesn't make it a "better" standard, just a higher one.

Probably a better way of describing it is that slaves in the Gorean culture have a rigid social role and are held accountable for staying within that role by the community at large.  Slaves and submissives in most areas of BDSM culture have variable or flexible social roles and are held accountable only by their owner or dominant, who may not wish them to behave submissively to anyone else.  There are some areas of the BDSM community that do establish rules of social interaction based on orientation (eg, the "Old Guard' enclaves), but most groups have consistent rules of courtesy and discretion that everyone is expected to abide by regardless of who they are (or who they think they are).