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Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group?


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Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 8:15:54 AM   
Cherylmazana


Posts: 1151
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		There was a statement made on another thread that stated this.

quote:


Bipolarber said        The simple fact is, BDSM is the sub-culture that came into being, allowing your group to exist in the first place. Maybe you guys shouldn't bitch about it too much.


However as I do not practice any form of BDSM I do not see how BDSM or D/s allows me to be Gorean, I would be interested in others thoughts.
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 8:21:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 37387
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Ja, that is the chicken and the egg in the apple and orange grove, there may be some link in that personal philosopy is something we all have some of, but from the point that we all crawled out of the cave we have all come into our own beings.  Goreans did not bear BDSM, nor was BDSM the mother of Gor.......any more than drinking whiskey causes lung cancer.

It is impossible to compute the effect of one upon the other.

Ron

lol, edited so you couldn't see my buck-ass nekkid freudian slip

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/15/2007 8:29:35 AM >

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to Cherylmazana)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 8:29:49 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		People like to puff up.

Do what you want to do-and don't worry about what blowfish exhibtionists want you to think-arguing only encourages them to be even more annoying.

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I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to Cherylmazana)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 8:38:28 AM   
LadyLynx


Posts: 1098
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline 		The thing is, that Goreans will continue to exist whether or not BDSM as a whole 'allows' it to exist.   And anybody/group who tries to excommunicate Goreans is/are pompous asses, and will have a major fight on their hands.  I am not Gorean, no interest in being Gorean, but I have no problem with it. 

_____________________________

Our community maybe openminded as a whole, but it is still made up of individuals who bring in their own opinions,baggage and agendas!

Known as SwitchWitch in my local community,and on IRC Bondage.

I also go by the nic SwitchWitch on MDS.

(in reply to RRafe)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 8:53:59 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Well, that's an interesting twist on my words, to say the least.... BDSM does not have any say in what kinks exist or not. What I said on the other thread was that, due to the BDSM communities' work at getting the DSM definition changed, we can ALL now practice our lifestyles without being institutionalized for being "mentally ill." The original thread was asking if Goreans should be given greater respect by the kink community. Naturally, this led to some nasty comments about how chaotic the BDSM community was, and how "superior" Gor was. I pointed out that maybe Gor has a lot to thank the BDSM community for, and maybe they shouldn't be putting them down.

Sheesh, people. Do you really have to lie (or in their terms, "spin") like a bunch of GOP wonks to build yourselves up?

(in reply to LadyLynx)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 9:00:09 AM   
LadyLynx


Posts: 1098
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline 		Now, now Bipolarber, don't lump all Goreans into that catorgory.  While of these subjects have annoyed me, they do pose good questions for discussion. 

_____________________________

Our community maybe openminded as a whole, but it is still made up of individuals who bring in their own opinions,baggage and agendas!

Known as SwitchWitch in my local community,and on IRC Bondage.

I also go by the nic SwitchWitch on MDS.

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 9:25:53 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings Mistress

BDSM is a lifestyle of induviduals, all one induvidual in the lifestyle can do when it comes to allow or dis allow anything is in his or her own home. Now if many BDSMers disalow Gor around them, then that would make Gor dis popular among the BDSM comunity but nothing more. Gor do not need the aproval of the BDSM comunity nor do the BDSM omunity need the aproval of the Goreans.

However it is true what the origial author of this post said that the BDSM comunity have been much more active in the media creating a more positive general opinion of theese kinds of lifestyles than Goreans have. As such the Goreans have things to be thankful for the BDSMers for. But that do not mean the BDSMers can allow or dis allow the Goreans to be, this is not a sosiety one can excomunicate somone from. What was said was mearly that it can be a bit hurtful whit all the snipes Gorean do at the BDSM comunity, inplying they are better than us, and at the same time seam to forget that it is mostly BDSMers that have worked hard toget theese kind of lifestyles accsepted.

May i wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to Cherylmazana)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 11:18:47 AM   
Zarius


Posts: 184
Joined: 2/9/2007
Status: offline 		bipolarber

If you go back to the original thread, you will see that the topic was a question. The resounding answer was NO, this was by both goreans and non. Thus your remarks here are over the top, where you accuse us of obfuscating.

Goreans dont put you down, I have seen you put us down though.  Those that are gorean do call people on their stuff ( read that SHIT) as you have been called on yours.

Again, bipolarber, stop clouding the issue, the ones that actually said freak show, and other things were indeed
non-goreans. Thus your arguments are null and void by that alone.


Cheryl

If you arent into BDSM, M/s or any of those other alphabets, to me being gorean as you are, does NOT make you a BDSM'er. If however you also practice Master/slave or bdsm stuff, then those elements which you practice (outside of the gorean philosophy, would fall under the title BDSM.

Your mileage may vary.

I wish you all well

Zarius


(in reply to nephandi)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 11:28:19 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana

There was a statement made on another thread that stated this.

quote:


Bipolarber said        The simple fact is, BDSM is the sub-culture that came into being, allowing your group to exist in the first place. Maybe you guys shouldn't bitch about it too much.


However as I do not practice any form of BDSM I do not see how BDSM or D/s allows me to be Gorean, I would be interested in others thoughts.



As Bipolar already addressed himself, he did not say or even imply that the BDSM community "allowed" Goreans to exist.  What he did say--and rightly so--is that the BDSM community has done much to de-stigmatize TPE relationships and other forms of "kink", including the Gorean lifestyle, and that without those efforts being openly Gorean (or other TPE dynamic) would considerably more difficult and problematic.

The notion that BDSM permits or denies lifestyle choices en bloc to any group is not a supportable argument.


_____________________________



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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 12:30:33 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 7245
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

due to the BDSM communities' work at getting the DSM definition changed, we can ALL now practice our lifestyles without being institutionalized for being "mentally ill."
 
Gor has a lot to thank the BDSM community for, and maybe they shouldn't be putting them down.

Sheesh, people. Do you really have to lie (or in their terms, "spin") like a bunch of GOP wonks to build yourselves up?


1. Gor doesn't really have much of a problem with the DSM, thanks.
2. It hasn't exactly "helped" Gor to have so many people associate us with BDSM.
3. Your gratuitious political bashing is irrelevant and obnoxious.
 
Thank you for contributing.
 
K.
 

(in reply to bipolarber)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 12:43:21 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
1. Gor doesn't really have much of a problem with the DSM, thanks.
2. It hasn't exactly "helped" Gor to have so many people associate us with BDSM.


Gor may not, but on Earth there are laws and government agencies (CPS comes to mind immediately) that will make all kinds of problems for people whom they believe to be abusing others in their household. 

Goreans may find it personally embarrassing to be associated with people who like to play spanky-butt, but the legal recognitions that the leather community fought hard to establish are indeed helpful to Goreans who might not enjoy having to defend their slaves and um's from the government.  No matter how good you are with a sword, or a gun, the government is still bigger than you.

To answer the original question as to whether BDSM "allows" Goreans to exist, the answer is of course not.  Goreans would exist regardless.  Some of their households would just be put to considerably more trouble on occasion, in the absence of the rights and recognitions that were won for us by the leather community, and that are still being actively defended there. 

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 12:48:51 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		~fr~

ReviseF65 and the like might indeed be said to be doing a thing or two to gain acceptance for TPE.
Which is not to say it's doing anything to gain acceptance for Gorean thinking.
Nor necessarily even for Free Companionship.

But, sure, it might limit the potential hassle of having a "well-adjusted" kajira, etc.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to celticlord2112)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 12:56:19 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		I think you're missing Kirata's point, Najakcharmer.

Gor has been seriously damaged by the association with BDSM in the sense that a lot of people now have the misconception that it's all about M/s and SCA, whereas those two are at best a tiny part of things for many of the subcommunities. Of course, I'd say that the use of a common label for several subcommunities, and not distinguishing philosophy from culture, has also been damaging, but that's a point me and Kirata probably disagree on.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Najakcharmer)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 12:59:43 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5310
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Hello everyone, a question from an 'other' if you don't mind.I am curious, how did BDSM get so linked with Gorean life? Or.. how did Gor get linked to BDSM?

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 1:09:38 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
Gor has been seriously damaged by the association with BDSM in the sense that a lot of people now have the misconception that it's all about M/s and SCA, whereas those two are at best a tiny part of things for many of the subcommunities. Of course, I'd say that the use of a common label for several subcommunities, and not distinguishing philosophy from culture, has also been damaging, but that's a point me and Kirata probably disagree on.


I don't believe that Gorean culture can be damaged in that manner.  It certainly can lead to some annoying misunderstandings and misrepresentation, but the folks who are Gorean, living by the books and not just roleplaying in chat rooms will not be damaged or even changed by the beliefs of others.

Annoying, yes.  Damaging, no. 

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 1:10:13 PM   
Jahnaca


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings camille

Go to the BDSM in the news section on collarme.  Look at the topic regarding submissive wives.  See how quickly people claim that is BDSM to.  Now you have the answer.

It is far easier to stop at the superficial then it is to embrace what is different and how.

Jahna


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Mass-produced human beings are attractive only to those who expect to be their benevolent mass producers. John Norman

(in reply to camille65)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 1:16:06 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 8563
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Hello everyone, a question from an 'other' if you don't mind.I am curious, how did BDSM get so linked with Gorean life? Or.. how did Gor get linked to BDSM?


Goreans are associated with BDSM because they choose to be by coming to BDSM sites and participating in BDSM forums. If it acts like a duck, walks like a duck and swims in the ponds of ducks, one is hard pressed to think of it as something other than a duck.

Unless and until Goreans leave forums such as these en masse, they will continue to be associated with BDSM because, simply, they're here associating with it. I dare say, no one is forcing Goreans to participate anymore than leather folk, kink folk or any other folk are forced to participate. If one comes here, they do so by their own choice and can't blame BDSM venues for acknowledging their existance here and believing they are part of the BDSM whole for being here. 

Celeste

_____________________________

۩ "The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." ۩
~Oliver Wendell Holmes~

(in reply to camille65)
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RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 1:18:15 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5310
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Hi Bita, it could be a goose you know. Thank you Najakcharmer for your response.

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 1:23:53 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 8563
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Hi Bita, it could be a goose you know. Thank you Najakcharmer for your response.


::sighs:: Thanks for reminding me that I have about 6 tons of goose poo on my front lawn that I need to go clean up before the snow falls.


Celeste

_____________________________

۩ "The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." ۩
~Oliver Wendell Holmes~

(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Does BDSM allow Gorean’s to exist as a group? - 10/15/2007 1:32:21 PM   
Jahnaca


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Bitatruble

Actually, no.  This has been going on far longer then coming to boards.  The assumption basically is, we both practice forms of m/s thus we are the same.  Oh and we use the words master, slave, dominance and submission.  It has always been this way.

Jahna


_____________________________

Mass-produced human beings are attractive only to those who expect to be their benevolent mass producers. John Norman

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 20
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