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RE: Third person speech


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RE: Third person speech - 10/25/2007 12:06:43 PM   
aeleberaNB


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From: Alberta, Calgary, Canada
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Greetings xoxi:

Master prefers me to speak in first person. in the books and i am sure i will be corrected if wrong, but the only time you see a slave speak third person is for reasons of punishment, to remind her of her place as a slave.

Master caught me a few times speaking third person and gave me a chance to explain why i did so, after explaining it to Him, He said that He prefers me to speak first person unless He says otherwise.

wishing you well,
aelebera{NB}

_____________________________

He is the Master, i am His slave, His property, His muse to do with as He pleases, when and where He pleases. Trust in thy Master as HE knows what is best for His property.

(in reply to nephandi)
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RE: Third person speech - 10/25/2007 2:37:07 PM   
SimonofTabor


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From: UK
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Greetings aelebera,

You are indeed wrong there. As I said there are dozens of occassions when slaves use third person speech in the books (if I recall correctly the only book without at least one example is Tarnsman [edit: Actually Tarnsman and Outlaw are the only two books without at least one example]), and very few of them are for punishment. In the vast majority of them it's the slave who chooses to use third person speech, because she feels the situation called for it. Sometimes she's done something wrong and is asking forgiveness, but other times she could simply be asking for something quite mundane, like a blanket perhaps. When it is used it is generally used as a way of showing the person she's speaking to that she knows her place.

Simon

< Message edited by SimonofTabor -- 10/25/2007 2:46:41 PM >

(in reply to aeleberaNB)
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RE: Third person speech - 10/25/2007 3:31:05 PM   
SimonofTabor


Posts: 123
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: UK
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Let me give just one example of the use of third person speech (I could list dozens). Consider the following passage (it's a bit long, but the context is important):



Elizabeth and Aphris entered, carrying the kettle between them, which they sat on the brass and copper grating over the fire bowl in the wagon.
“Go ahead and ask him,” prompted Elizabeth, “Slave.”
Aphris seemed frightened, confused.
“Meat!” said Kamchak.
After we had eaten and the girls had eaten with us, there not being that night much time for observing the amenities, Elizabeth poked Aphris, “Ask him,” she said.
Aphris lowered her head and shook it.
Elizabeth looked at Kamchak.  “One of your slaves,” she said, “would like to ask you something.”
“Which one?” inquired Kamchak.
“Aphris,” said Elizabeth firmly.
“No,” said Aphris, “no, Master.”
“Give him Ka-la-na wine,” prompted Elizabeth.
Aphris got up and fetched not a skin, but a bottle, of wine, Ka-la-na wine, from the Ka-la-na orchards of great Ar itself.  She also brought a black, red-trimmed wine crater from the isle of Cos.
“May I serve you?” she asked.
Kamchak’s eyes glinted.  “Yes,” he said.
She poured wine into the crater and replaced the bottle.  Kamchak had watched her hands very carefully.  She had had to break the seal on the bottle to open it.  The crater had been upside down when she had picked it up.  If she had poisoned the wine she had certainly done so deftly.
Then she knelt before him in the position of the Pleasure Slave and, head down, arms extended, offered him the crater.
He took it and sniffed it and then took a wary sip.
Then he threw back his head and drained the crater.  “Hah!” said he when finished.
Aphris jumped.
“Well,” said Kamchak, “what is it that a Turian wench would crave of her master?”
“Nothing,” said Aphris.
“If you do not ask him, I shall,” said Elizabeth.
“Speak, Slave!” shouted Kamchak and Aphris went white and shook her head.
“She found something today,” said Elizabeth, “that someone had thrown away.”
“Bring it!” said Kamchak.
Timidly Aphris rose and went to the thin rep-cloth blanket that was her bedding near the boots of Kamchak.  Hidden in the blanket there was a faded yellow piece of cloth, which she had folded very small.
She brought it to Kamchak and held it out to him.
He took it and whipped it out.  It was a worn, stained Turian camisk, doubtless one that had been worn by one of the Turian maidens acquired in Love War.
Aphris had her head to the rug, trembling.
When she looked up at Kamchak there were tears in her eyes.  She said, very softly, “Aphris of Turia, the slave girl, begs her master that she might clothe herself.”
“Aphris of Turia,” laughed Kamchak, “begs to be permitted to wear a camisk!”
The girl nodded and swiftly put her head down.
“Come here, Little Aphris,” said Kamchak.
She came forward.
He put his hands in the strings of diamonds on her throat.  “Would you rather wear diamonds or the camisk?” he asked.
“Please, Master,” she said, “the camisk.”
Kamchak jerked the diamonds from her collar and threw them to the side of the room.  Then he withdrew from his pouch the key to her collar and bells and, lock by lock, removed them from her.  She could hardly believe her eyes.
“You were very noisy,” Kamchak said to her, sternly.
Elizabeth clapped her hands with pleasure and began to consider the camisk.
“A slave girl is grateful to her master,” said Aphris, tears in her eyes.
“Properly so,” agreed Kamchak.
Then, delighted, Aphris, assisted by Elizabeth Cardwell, donned the yellow camisk.  Against her dark almond eyes and long black hair the yellow camisk was exceedingly lovely.
“Come here,” commanded Kamchak, and Aphris ran lightly to him, timidly.
“I will show you how to wear a camisk,” said Kamchak, taking the cord and adjusting it with two or three pulls and jerks that just about took the wind out of the Turian girl.  He then tied it tightly about her waist.  “There,” he said, “that is how a camisk is worn.”  I saw that Aphris of Turia would be marvelously attractive in the garment.
Then, to my surprise, she walked a bit in the wagon and twirled twice before Kamchak.  “Am I not pretty, Master?” she asked.
“Yes,” said Kamchak, nodding.
She laughed with delight, as proud of the worn camisk as she might have been once of robes of white and gold.
“For a Turian slave,” added Kamchak.
“Of course,” she laughed, “for a Turian slave!”
[Nomads of Gor pages 150-152]

This passage is a key part of the book, at least as far as Aphris is concerned. It marks the point where Aphris shows to Kamchak that she has at last accepted the situation, that she is now his slave. Towards the end of this passage third person speech is used not once but twice. They are both used by Aphris to underline that she now accepted what she was. Not only did she tell Kamchak that she was his slave, but she did so in a way that made it clear she meant it.

Now, the two occassions were not randomly chosen. They were both carefully chosen and were both in situations where it was appropriate to show she knew and accepted her place. The first was when she asked for permission to clother herself, and the second was where she expressed her gratitude to Kamchak for not only granting her request, but removing the bells she had previously had to wear. There are similar uses of third person in many other places throughout the series. Neither use is related to punishment, and neither is prompted in any way by Kamchak. Aphris used it of her own free will because she needed to make a point very clearly and unmistakably.

This is just one passage in which third person speech is used - there are many, many more.

Simon

< Message edited by SimonofTabor -- 10/25/2007 4:10:53 PM >

(in reply to SimonofTabor)
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RE: Third person speech - 10/25/2007 3:45:31 PM   
Vanatru


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimonofTabor

Greetings aelebera,

You are indeed wrong there. As I said there are dozens of occassions when slaves use third person speech in the books ...


Simon, sometimes I wonder if misinformation is given out on purpose just to see if the other person actually read the books, and then goes on to become stated facts over the years since the other person (who didn't read the books) transmits it to others, and on and on.

thanks for your post.

Edit: I guess it's also possible (among other explanations) someone tried to condense a lot of stuff, figuring the other person would actually read the books, and it all rolls downhill from there.

< Message edited by Vanatru -- 10/25/2007 3:48:33 PM >

(in reply to SimonofTabor)
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RE: Third person speech - 10/25/2007 4:09:06 PM   
SimonofTabor


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Indeed Vanatru, I've come across many many things repeated over and over again that are simply plain wrong or have been distorted over time, with the real reason for them long since lost (the phrase "there are no Sirs on Gor" being an example of that).

I would always encourage people to check what they hear or read against the actual books, and that includes what I say. I don't always guarantee to be 100% right on everything and nor do I expect everyone simply to believe me without question. Even when quotes are produced it can be worth checking them - I can't remember the point that was being made now (something about pity if I recall correctly, but I'm not at all sure) but I was once presented with a quote to back up someone's point which turned out to be completely fake (though not faked by them - I think they had read it on a website).

I'd also encourage people to not only check to see whether something is true, but to look behind it and find out the background. Referring again to the other thread, it may be the protocal for slaves not to use the word Sir, but it's entirely valid to ask why is that such an issue? With lots of things (though not all) there will be a reason behind it that will go a long way to aid the understanding of the issue at hand.

Simon

< Message edited by SimonofTabor -- 10/25/2007 4:28:33 PM >

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RE: Third person speech - 10/25/2007 6:09:05 PM   
SixFootMaster


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Magnificent, Simon. It's moments like that which make my blood rise in the expressed beauty in a slave.

(in reply to SimonofTabor)
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RE: Third person speech - 10/25/2007 10:20:33 PM   
Cherylmazana


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I have been informed that once upon a time certain members of silk and steel put misinformation on their website to see where it would turn up and who was stealing and copying their words.

Also a few in jokes were taken as gospel and passed around.

That is why I never trust websites only things I have researched myself.

Cheryl

(in reply to SixFootMaster)
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RE: Third person speech - 10/25/2007 10:23:53 PM   
aeleberaNB


Posts: 690
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From: Alberta, Calgary, Canada
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Greetings Master Simon:

Thank You for taking time to correct my post. i have not yet read all the books and am struggling with reading book 3 due to the questions i have, but will finish it this weekend as Master has instructed me to do.

as i said i was not sure if what i had posted was correct and for the misinformation i do apologize, but as i said i am still reading the books.

wishing You well,
aelebera{NB}

_____________________________

He is the Master, i am His slave, His property, His muse to do with as He pleases, when and where He pleases. Trust in thy Master as HE knows what is best for His property.

(in reply to SixFootMaster)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Third person speech - 10/26/2007 6:56:57 AM   
xaria


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Just wondering - to the Masters, do you prefer that your girl talks in third person, or do you prefer that she doesn't?  Or do you not care either way?

To the slaves - same question, which do you prefer, and why?



Greetings Free,
Greetings all,

Master doesn't always require me to use third person speach.  It's only in His presence or where i'm required to do so that i use it.  i started off doing so on the Gorean forums, but only because i wasn't sure if there was a preference here.  The more i kept reading, the more i realised that it wasn't a requirement. 

He only made this rule up when we started going to a Gorean talker together.  It was part of my training, and still is, used to find out more about the Gor lifestyle.  Mostly because the place we went required third person speech from all slaves.  i met and have learned much from the people that go there, but i also want to get away from the online part of Gor.  i want to learn the real life side of the Gorean teachings.  i want to continue to learn more about myself and the need that burns inside to please and be found pleasing.

i guess since it was asked for an opinion from slaves, i'll express mine here.  i prefer to speak first person, generally.  This is where the BUT (no, not butt) comes into it.  i say generally, because if i know that it is what pleases my Master or even a Master, i will gladly do it.  If they prefer me to speak first person, i will do so, because i live and love to please.

i wish you all well.

_____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
xaria - Property of Xavier
House of Logos

(in reply to xoxi)
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RE: Third person speech - 10/26/2007 4:53:09 PM   
Totalmaster4you


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Tal to the Free and property,
Greetings Six,
 
Would you mind explaining what your talking about?
 
Greetings xoxi,
I never require my slave to speak in third person. she does it on rare occaissions in being playful or apologizing. I do appreciate a slave writing in the 3rd person so I can see their mindset but it's not required by me.
 
Be well,
TM4Y

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to SixFootMaster)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Third person speech - 10/27/2007 3:08:29 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
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From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
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Greetings Mistress

It is the same whit other online misinformation i think. For example the silk colors, in the books a girl would wear the color of silk or other materials or nothing that her Master pleased, but many online sources say such and such slave wear red silk, such and such wear white silk, such and such wear yellow silk and so on and so on. While there are the definitions red and white silk in the book they only mean whatever or not a slave is a virgin or not.

Another such misinformation is the position karta, that i have never seen in the books, while kind of nice, it is a Gorean thing, the position where a girl kneels outside a room she want to enter, if a free person i present, whit her head to the floor until the free person acknowledge her and allow her entry. And there are many other bit of information that have been so common online none seam to remember they was never a part of the books.

Now i am not against adding things the Master like to the lifestyle he practice, but it is a shame that so many thinks these things are original information.

May i wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to Cherylmazana)
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RE: Third person speech - 10/27/2007 4:40:48 AM   
SixFootMaster


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I'm assuming that your question is in relation to the "magnificent" comment? Acting on that assumption:

The quote provided by Simon was stirring and magnificent, and his commenting on it insightful. Didn't think that would need an explanantion.


_____________________________

How-so oft fresh injurious deed
Doth turn Janus' petulant gaze
'pon the rocks and storm rift sea
And littered wood of broken days
disregard for toil shown
no ground broken, no seed sewn.

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Third person speech - 10/27/2007 10:04:39 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
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From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
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Greetings Master

Forgive me Master but was your post directed at me for i can not remember asking a question? my post was written as a reply on a comment from Mistress Cherylmazana about mis information. i am sorry for any misunderstanding. i to liked Master Simon's post.

May i wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to SixFootMaster)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Third person speech - 10/27/2007 5:04:08 PM   
SixFootMaster


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Heh, no sweetheart, it was addressed to TM4Y, in response to his question. Clicked the wrong reply button, that's all.

Be well nephandi


_____________________________

How-so oft fresh injurious deed
Doth turn Janus' petulant gaze
'pon the rocks and storm rift sea
And littered wood of broken days
disregard for toil shown
no ground broken, no seed sewn.

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 94
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