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RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/18/2007 12:44:48 AM

Posts: 69
Joined: 9/8/2007
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I once went on a date with a girl who - after telling me the story of how she hooked up with some stripper with big boobs - went on a rant about how bi guys were "not right in the head," and terribly confused. This was right after I told her I was bi. My mouth fell open and I just stared at her thinking, "Are you really so dense?" :\

(in reply to MistressPav)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/18/2007 10:05:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

quote:

ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

How does *anyone* know that their relationship - which they originally planned to last forever - will truly last forever? This is specious.

If two people are personally compatible - I don't mean if their *labels* are compatible, I mean if *they* are compatible - then their relationship can last...until they are no longer compatible. For whatever reason.

Not specious. Obviously any relationship could end if the people's needs are not being met. But the odds are less if you don't deliberately pick someone who has needs you already know you can't meet.

It never makes sense to me when people say that about bisexuality. I don't need to have sex with women any more than I do with. I'm just attracted to women as well as men. It's not like I have two seperate sex drives, one for men and one for women.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Celeste43)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/19/2007 12:07:30 AM

Posts: 3284
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From: BFE ohio
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y cant we all just accept each other? like Miss Pav stated. everyone wants to be treated equally but they dont treat others like equals. when i came out as bi a lot of ppl looked at me weird.. like i was diseased or soemthing. just becuz i like both guys and girls dont mean ull start liking both. christ ppl r stupid. if your that worried about me hitting on u or whatever tell me not to.

to the OP, i know youve said this several times but im still adding my .02, if hes that worried about you being a switch thats fine. there r other fish in the BDSM sea. find someone you r compatible with and can have fun with.

as a switch myself i usually look for switches for longer relationships... but i do have a few subs/slaves that i call my own. this is who i am and wether or not i fit into any ones definition of what a "true" whatever or not is... i dont really care. im a true me. deal with it..

/end rant.

H >:)

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(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/19/2007 6:12:38 AM

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Dear Switches, Lady's, Gentlemen and OP

Please excuse anything in the following that may offend (generally my words always offend someone LOL) at least there should be some passionate responses to what I have to say and I look forward to it all.

I don't normally follow the "role" rules the way many others (online) feel that is necessary. Just as I don't identify as straight, bi or gay,I don't believe that I can be defined by my role as dominant, switch or submissive. I am a dominant woman - by this I am not using it in a BDSM sense but in a descriptive sense of my personality. I am a total alpha, type A personality who dominates most everyone she comes in contact with as long as they will let me - not out of dominering or rudeness but because I have a strong, social, forward personality. I've been accused of being "a switch" as much as being a "goth" and my standard response is usually "You may see me as you wish, I love me as I am, and so do those who know me." I have been a Mistress since I was 18 - I have owned slaves, played with submissives, switched with switches, and generally enjoyed myself at every opportunity without worrying about labels. I only began to worry about labels about eight years ago when I started getting involved in online BDSM dating sites. I fell into the trap of allowing myself to be "labeled" and defined by that label for quite some time until I realized that I was tired of my "label" dominating me.

My Dom often refers to me as "The Mistress I am honored to Own." That phrase makes me melt! In 13 years he is the only Dominant I have ever accepted a collar from. Does it negate the fact that I am dominant because I submit to one? I propose that I am not defined by the label switch - but that I am defined by the actions and thoughts that make me who I am. Yes, I list myself as a dominant on collar me. But I do so because I am a dominant female who also happens to be Owned. It has no effect on the Bitch Queen when she is standing over her property with a whip. LOL I make no attempt to hide my alternate side from anyone - I am open on my profile about the fact that I live with my Dom and that I am seeking a slave to serve me. So is my selection of dominant deceptive - only to those wrapped up in their own worry about labels.

Forgive the length of my rant - I believe I can sum up my point by saying that hundreds of people have been swept up in the online need to "define" everything down to the letter. But we are humans and not defined by words but by our actions and personal thoughts. Any submissive (or anyone else) who chooses to label me, brush me off to the side for being "weak" because I submit, or feels that a role and a label must define who I am deep within, may continue down his/her seperate path and be defined not by who they are - but by what they appear to be.

I remain, better off hated for who I am than loved for what I am not.

Lady Luna

_____________________________

"Old goths never die, they just need less makeup"

(in reply to Hanable)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/19/2007 6:55:14 AM

Posts: 3066
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From: NYS
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Not specious. Obviously any relationship could end if the people's needs are not being met. But the odds are less if you don't deliberately pick someone who has needs you already know you can't meet.

It never makes sense to me when people say that about bisexuality. I don't need to have sex with women any more than I do with. I'm just attracted to women as well as men. It's not like I have two seperate sex drives, one for men and one for women.

Really? My experience with bisexual males is that they do need to have man on man sex. Not being a bisexual female, or knowing any personally I had no idea it could work differently for women. My experience with men is that they do need to express all aspects of their sex drive to feel fulfilled. And since I'm het, I was only looking for male partners.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/19/2007 1:16:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
It never makes sense to me when people say that about bisexuality. I don't need to have sex with women any more than I do with. I'm just attracted to women as well as men. It's not like I have two seperate sex drives, one for men and one for women.

Really? My experience with bisexual males is that they do need to have man on man sex. Not being a bisexual female, or knowing any personally I had no idea it could work differently for women. My experience with men is that they do need to express all aspects of their sex drive to feel fulfilled. And since I'm het, I was only looking for male partners.

I get urges to play with breasts but I also get urges to play with food products during sex, something Valyraen doesn't allow. Doesn't mean I'm going to cheat on him to lick whipped cream off someone's stomach. It's been over four or five years since I've had sex with a woman. Honestly I think I miss the chocolate sauce more.

My guess (based off my own limited experience with my bisexuality and my experiences with my friends) would be that they crave the anal stimulation, not the actual penis and could be fulfilled by a woman they loved with a strap-on. Most bisexuals I know, male and female, are quite monogamous and, while Valyraen and I are open to exploring poly, I will be quite content with just him if nothing works out.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Celeste43)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/19/2007 1:19:13 PM

Posts: 350
Joined: 11/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheInstrument

I once went on a date with a girl who - after telling me the story of how she hooked up with some stripper with big boobs - went on a rant about how bi guys were "not right in the head," and terribly confused. This was right after I told her I was bi. My mouth fell open and I just stared at her thinking, "Are you really so dense?" :\

The Instrument, you fucking ROCK! You keep on being yourself. I admire men who are bi and who will openly state it. That's impressive to me. I played with a bi guy once and he rocked my world. He was a bodybuilder and very good looking.

_____________________________

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(my boy "ToyZ")
Claimed & Collared 9magick#2008

"An it harm none, unless they deserve it, do what ye will." --Scorpio Creed

A- Rh-

(in reply to TheInstrument)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/19/2007 5:54:39 PM

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Joined: 5/3/2004
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Well, you know. Twue Dommes don't switch, and they never wear anything but a leather corset and high heeled boots. And they never, ever eat quiche. Twue Subs don't switch either. They never rise above their knees and are willing to brand a Twue Domme's initials on their forehead before meeting.

Folks who insist on seeking a relationship with a paper cut-out from the pages of a fetish magazine are likely to get exactly what they are looking for, and no more.

(in reply to twistedwillow)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/20/2007 7:29:16 PM

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Joined: 7/12/2005
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I am not a switch, i am strictly submissive in and out of the bedroom and find that in social or work settings i lean that way too to some degree.

It appears to me that we get caught up in semantics where the word "true" comes in. Dictionary.com has 24 definitions for the word "true". I am a true submissive according to several of them:

6. conforming to or consistent with a standard, pattern, or the like: a true copy.
9. properly so called; rightly answering to a description: true statesmanship.
11. reliable, unfailing, or sure: a true sign.

Synonyms being constant, steady, unwavering.

I require a Dom that is also constant, steady, unwavering in his role with me hence i am not interested in a switch for a partner.

I mean no disrespect by my choice and i certainly do not think less of those with a differing opinion. But i do agree with Celeste43 when she said:

"I'm one of those who would have refused, just as I would have refused someone who is bisexual. Simply because I'm monogamous and looking for a long term relationship and there is no way that I would want to be with a partner I couldn't fulfill."

I am not implying that a switch can not be monogamous as that would be ridiculous. I think the logic here is that if one is with a hetero sub female in a hetero dom role but also has bi sub desires the match is not a complete one. In such a relationship i would be concerned that i could not fulfill his needs.

Then there is the simple fact that i do not wish to think of my partner in a submissive role. That would just throw me all off balance. It is not a matter of thinking him "weak" for i do not see myself that way at all. I just can't wrap my head around my Dom also desiring to be submissive.

We tend to fear or dislike that which is different, the nature of our beast. I would think that in this lifestyle we would be more tolerant and accepting of each other in whatever roles we choose to play or live in as well as tolerant and accepting if one doesn't wish to play in yours.

pam

(in reply to colligocarus)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/21/2007 7:29:29 PM

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Joined: 9/8/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

Folks who insist on seeking a relationship with a paper cut-out from the pages of a fetish magazine are likely to get exactly what they are looking for, and no more.

Never has the point been so eloquently and clearly put.

(in reply to Najakcharmer)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/21/2007 8:01:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: txnights05

Synonyms being constant, steady, unwavering.

I require a Dom that is also constant, steady, unwavering in his role with me hence i am not interested in a switch for a partner.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions (and insert every other standard IMO preface). With that said, I don't really see how a Dom being a switch, or ::gasp:: even a bisexual switch means he couldn't or wouldn't be "constant, steady, unwavering" with you. While I'm not one of these people, I most certainly know switches who are very concrete in their interactions with people once they've settled. Once they decide someone's a sub, they always treat them as such and - most likely because of threads and sentiments like the ones here - stand steadfast by the decision that their own sub tendencies are no business of someone subservient to them.

Also, I think it's interesting that you say you aren't implying a switch can't be monogamous and that such a thought would be ridiculous, because I'm of the opinion that a woman thinking she can't fulfill the needs of a bisexual man is just as ridiculous if not more. What is fulfillment if anything but relative?

Such a statement is rife with insecurity, in my opinion, especially when you close your argument by speaking of the simple fact that you don't even want to "think" of your Dom in a submissive role. It's always more a matter of what people would rather "think" than how such a Dom actually operates. So many loaded words are thrown around on message boards that don't translate well to real life. We all like to think we like our Dom/mes to rule with an iron fist but wouldn't you agree that a good Dom/me should be fluid and able to adapt to any situation with relative ease? I think that's the hallmark of a true Dominant personality. A Dominant person knows how to take control and how to make things go completely according to their plans, but a -true- (::cringe::) Dominant person knows what to do when things don't work out so neatly.

So tell me, if it's not a matter of thinking such a Dom "weak," what is it that upsets you about the thought? It "throwing you off balance," and you not being able to "wrap your head" around the thought do nothing to provide us with insight into your feelings on the matter...or at least the phrases themselves don't.

< Message edited by TheInstrument -- 11/21/2007 8:09:50 PM >

(in reply to txnights05)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/21/2007 8:05:21 PM

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Joined: 11/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BloodLuna

I am a dominant woman - by this I am not using it in a BDSM sense but in a descriptive sense of my personality. I am a total alpha, type A personality who dominates most everyone she comes in contact with as long as they will let me - not out of dominering or rudeness but because I have a strong, social, forward personality.
I remain, better off hated for who I am than loved for what I am not.

Lady Luna

Couldn't have said it better than Ms. Lady Luna. Although I come across as "sweet" and "influential" and "coercive", no one ever comes right out and says- what a manipulative, dominating __________ (fill in the blank). And never have I switched, backed down, or been a doormat to the society of "the man".

(in reply to BloodLuna)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/21/2007 11:57:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheInstrument

quote:

ORIGINAL: txnights05

Synonyms being constant, steady, unwavering.

I require a Dom that is also constant, steady, unwavering in his role with me hence i am not interested in a switch for a partner.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions (and insert every other standard IMO preface). With that said, I don't really see how a Dom being a switch, or ::gasp:: even a bisexual switch means he couldn't or wouldn't be "constant, steady, unwavering" with you. While I'm not one of these people, I most certainly know switches who are very concrete in their interactions with people once they've settled. Once they decide someone's a sub, they always treat them as such and - most likely because of threads and sentiments like the ones here - stand steadfast by the decision that their own sub tendencies are no business of someone subservient to them.

Also, I think it's interesting that you say you aren't implying a switch can't be monogamous and that such a thought would be ridiculous, because I'm of the opinion that a woman thinking she can't fulfill the needs of a bisexual man is just as ridiculous if not more. What is fulfillment if anything but relative?

Such a statement is rife with insecurity, in my opinion, especially when you close your argument by speaking of the simple fact that you don't even want to "think" of your Dom in a submissive role. It's always more a matter of what people would rather "think" than how such a Dom actually operates. So many loaded words are thrown around on message boards that don't translate well to real life. We all like to think we like our Dom/mes to rule with an iron fist but wouldn't you agree that a good Dom/me should be fluid and able to adapt to any situation with relative ease? I think that's the hallmark of a true Dominant personality. A Dominant person knows how to take control and how to make things go completely according to their plans, but a -true- (::cringe::) Dominant person knows what to do when things don't work out so neatly.

So tell me, if it's not a matter of thinking such a Dom "weak," what is it that upsets you about the thought? It "throwing you off balance," and you not being able to "wrap your head" around the thought do nothing to provide us with insight into your feelings on the matter...or at least the phrases themselves don't.

Well put.

I don't limit myself or my partner by rigid roles or labels. I am faithful to him and his desires regardless of the fact that my preferences or interests can be varied, even if not fulfilled. All of his desires, regardless of their label, because that is what is important to me, not some imaginary projection of what he should be based on some internet group's fantasies. I don't imagine him in any role other than the role that is uniquely him.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to TheInstrument)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 11/22/2007 6:10:11 AM

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LadyChef - thank you! :)

TheInstrument "With that said, I don't really see how a Dom being a switch, or ::gasp:: even a bisexual switch means he couldn't or wouldn't be "constant, steady, unwavering" with you."
I love this!!!! I have absolutely no desire to switch with a submissive who is serving me. It 11 years for me to recognize that I had any submissive tendancies at all and another 2 years of wrestling against my owner to settle into being owned. It was this view of "switches" as being "weak or ineffective" as a Domme that caused me to deny my needs for 11years. And even though being a Mistress and owning my own slave makes me so happy that I was able to ignore those other needs for so long, accepting that I could submit and still be a strong, effective, Mistress suddenly made me a very fulfilled human being.

Lady Luna

_____________________________

"Old goths never die, they just need less makeup"

(in reply to laurell3)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 12/13/2007 9:55:30 AM

tdslittlehelper

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I think that if someone is looking for something or someone specific and tells you so that it is their life....

(in reply to colligocarus)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 12/13/2007 2:28:00 PM

Posts: 21
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline

quote:

I would feel as if there was a sword over me, worrying every day if this were the day that need would come over my partner all the time knowing this relationship couldn't last.

quote:

IMOHO that would be more a matter of your trust issues with that partner than your partner's varied desires. I am bi.. but I don't NEED to have a male AND a female partner. It's one pool to me, sexy is sexy whether it male or female... and love is love. I love a person, not what genitals they happen to have. Which means, I can be with one or the other and be faithful and monogamous if that is what we agree is right for us. Same goes as a switch, I don't HAVE to be both, the difference is in the person I am with. I choose to be poly mainly because my Master was not wanting monogamy when I met him, and I have grown to like being poly, but if he had wanted to be monogamous, I would have considered that as well. When I commit, I commit forever... but in my past, it's usualy my partner who changed and not so much me usually. I know who I am, and I know what I want and I do resent the fact that you feel I have less of a chance to be in a committed long term relationship with someone because I might suddenly *switch* and change my mind.

Non lifestyle example: College student has a double major of medicine and law because of an equal interest in both. After graduation they choose to practice medicine, does that mean they can't be fulfilled in that occupation because they have an interest in law? Or that they are more likely to someday just decide to dump medicine and practice law than anyone else who decides to change professions at some point in their lives?

I like people, I like experiences and learning about new things. Even if it is something I am not interested in, I am interested in maybe getting to know someone who is so I can learn about their perspective, and possiblity discover something new I never encountered before. I am me, always and forever who I am... and I can commit as much as anyone.

If a pairing is good, then there is trust and trust should be what makes you secure, not what desires that person may have had or has. One can have desires but not need to act on them in order to be fulfilled.

Also, in my opinion anyone that thinks they can fulfil a person's every single need and desire on their own could be heading for some disappointment along the way.

_____________________________

Jewel
Bi, Poly, and Switch... I don't believe in limiting my options
"I'm a bitch, I'm a tease, I'm a goddess on my knees"... Meredith Brooks "The Bitch"

(in reply to Celeste43)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 12/13/2007 2:32:32 PM

Posts: 21
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline

quote:

What baffles the shit out of me is how each group of people (gays, dom/dommes, TS/TG, lesbians, bi, switch, poly....etc) expects to be tolerated and accepted, yet some people question and bash someone else for what they like. Why can't everyone just accept everyone else without being judgemental?

quote:

YES... well said. This has been driving me mad ever since I entered the scene. I have seen people who rant about wanting to be more socially accepted and understood, then that same person turn around and slam someone for their choices. It's hyoocritical and it also divides our community instead of pulling it together so we can all fight the same battle.

How can you tell a kid not to use drugs and then light up a joint in front of them. It doesn't work. You have to believe in what you fight for being for everyone, and not just people who agree with your choices.

Tolerance doesn't mean not having opinions it just means not saying or implying that your opinions are the only right ones. It also means that you don't assume something about an entire group of people just because you don't understand that group.

Learn, grow, love...

_____________________________

Jewel
Bi, Poly, and Switch... I don't believe in limiting my options
"I'm a bitch, I'm a tease, I'm a goddess on my knees"... Meredith Brooks "The Bitch"

(in reply to MistressPav)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 12/13/2007 2:37:28 PM

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
It never makes sense to me when people say that about bisexuality. I don't need to have sex with women any more than I do with. I'm just attracted to women as well as men. It's not like I have two seperate sex drives, one for men and one for women.

Really? My experience with bisexual males is that they do need to have man on man sex. Not being a bisexual female, or knowing any personally I had no idea it could work differently for women. My experience with men is that they do need to express all aspects of their sex drive to feel fulfilled. And since I'm het, I was only looking for male partners.

Something for me to chime in on. My experience on a large scale with other bisexuals is that many use it as a excuse NOT to be monogamous. I am bisexual and quite monogamous. It is more about the partner than the gender thereof. For some, it is a reason to have multiple partners. To my knowledge, there is really nothing that one gender can give me that the other cant at least emulate to a decent degree.

What I dont understand is those people who believe that you cannot be a "TRUE" Domme without having been a sub first, and yet if you have subbed and enjoyed it, then say you must be a switch. And then, if you are a switch, they arent interested, becasue you arent a TRUE Domme. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS PEOPLE!

My problem with switches in relationships has never been their roles, it has been their indecision. If someone could confidently and happily stay in one roll for me, then that would be fine. Often, though they cant and the relationships are short lived becasue they start getting their wanderlust.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 12/16/2007 12:55:42 PM

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There are those that label themselves as "true Dommes/Doms" and who also might look down on those of us that switch. I look on it as having a range of responses.

(in reply to twistedwillow)

RE: Not a 'true' Dom\sub because your a switch. - 12/16/2007 6:56:24 PM

BlackWolfSwitch

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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Happens to me as well. One must remember that when the word 'Switch' comes up, some people dive for cover like we've got five heads or something. That whole thing where we can do everything? It unfortunately also comes up in most people's minds as "Jack of all and Master of None.". Soooo.. yea.

My opinion? Their loss, not mine.

~Wolf

_____________________________

"Command of the collar, or submission to wear it. It's your choice. My choice is to know what I like from both."

(in reply to twistedwillow)

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