quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

-fast reply-

I can see I should not have left the boards this afternoon and left you all to your own devises. Many of you are new or simply visiting and most are attempting to understand things about Gor; the first step is to leave our learned western hypocracies out of the senerio. This thread demonstrates the danger in trying to mix what is Gor with what is todays western way of thinking. There are a few laws that we, as Goreans must abided by to survive in this present world we find ourselves, that's ok and fair enough, but it is not important to morph what is Gorean to meet these demands, what is important if you don't like prison is that you abide by the given laws. Or never get caught not doing different, I choose to be cooperative for the most part.

This confusion is the demon created when someone tries to redefine what is Gor to meet legal parameters or the individual, not to mention social confines of western thinking. To be Gorean is what it is, the books have given sufficient guide to this end. Whenever we have a new wave of Goreans flow through the forums we go thru this very subject. My bet is that is why Leonidas has moved on to other things, or has decided to just go out and live his life as best a Gorean can. This same ole, same ole does challange ones sanity.

As you can see, many are confused on this issue, the reason they are is simple, just like little aimee, slut of Torvald, most are trying to find an Western societal parallel so that they can make Gor appear to be what suits them. She went back in time to find her excuse, that doesn't change the fact that a man does not enter into a contract with his property, unless he is other than Gorean, or partaking in an act that is un-Gorean. If owning a slave is important to some of you, perhaps you should be man about it, divorce her and keep her as a slave. Why worry about the western way of shit, she is just your slave, she is bound to serve and maintain her place through good effort. Just ponder on the reason you call her a slave, is it because of its romantic ideals or because she is your property, if she is, she has no say in your contractual obligations, make her truly accontable for her meals and quarters. Can you do that? Or will you afford her legal quarter, hence owning part of your ass? What are you trying to make Gorean? Think about it.

You folks can do whatever you feel is important to live your lives as you must; but just because you proclaim yourself Gorean and you want to do something does not mean that is Gorean or will be recognized as such by other Goreans. We all go through this personal battle, trust me, we all do. Now if you don't give a shit about what others think, we have nothing to debate. If you feel you must debate this, perhaps you first need to define to yourself the reason you want to debate this. Is it for the greater good and understanding of what is Gorean, or is it for a more personal and self serving reasons? 

Confusion does not lie in being Gorean, it lies in the attempt to alter its premise. I have said it before on many occasions, but I'll say it again. No one is forcing any of you to be Gorean, why force what is Gorean to be you?

Hope this post helps a little,

Bull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercc
....
Reading comprehension….

quote:

ORIGINAL: Braveheart6942
There is another type of dominance
which says, "I don't need this pie or any pie... I am self-sufficient. If you
wish to go my way then follow me, if not, then I will go alone."

quote:

True dominance is not about trying to be the "big man," "number one," or
"controlling the distribution of pie." True dominance steps back and watches,
knowing that if he wants a pie, he can get himself one.

quote:


Yes, it is true that some situations for the good of the tribe
or community require teamwork. To continue in your pie
example, a true dominant (who, by definition is not looking
toward self aggrandizement or furthering his own ego), will
put the needs of the group above his own. If he sees that
distribution of pie is not fulfilling the goal of everyone being
fed, then he may step in to take control to make sure that
the group, as a whole, is benefitted to the maxiumum degree.
He may even give his pie to another who did not get any,
secure in the knowledge that he can get his own pie later.

Being dominant is not a matter of "me first," it is a matter
of using one's leadership qualities and dominant orientation
to provide the leadership which the group needs to meet
its goals, and that may include a fair degree of cooperation
with other dominants for the good of all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Braveheart6942

Tal Najakcharmer,

Yes, it is true that some situations for the good of the tribe
or community require teamwork. To continue in your pie
example, a true dominant (who, by definition is not looking
toward self aggrandizement or furthering his own ego), will
put the needs of the group above his own. If he sees that
distribution of pie is not fulfilling the goal of everyone being
fed, then he may step in to take control to make sure that
the group, as a whole, is benefitted to the maxiumum degree.
He may even give his pie to another who did not get any,
secure in the knowledge that he can get his own pie later.

Being dominant is not a matter of "me first," it is a matter
of using one's leadership qualities and dominant orientation
to provide the leadership which the group needs to meet
its goals, and that may include a fair degree of cooperation
with other dominants for the good of all.

I wish you well,
Braveheart

quote:

ORIGINAL: Braveheart6942

Tal Najakcharmer,

Yes, it is true that some situations for the good of the tribe
or community require teamwork. To continue in your pie
example, a true dominant (who, by definition is not looking
toward self aggrandizement or furthering his own ego), will
put the needs of the group above his own. If he sees that
distribution of pie is not fulfilling the goal of everyone being
fed, then he may step in to take control to make sure that
the group, as a whole, is benefitted to the maxiumum degree.
He may even give his pie to another who did not get any,
secure in the knowledge that he can get his own pie later.

Being dominant is not a matter of "me first," it is a matter
of using one's leadership qualities and dominant orientation
to provide the leadership which the group needs to meet
its goals, and that may include a fair degree of cooperation
with other dominants for the good of all.

I wish you well,
Braveheart

quote:

ORIGINAL: Torvold
As for the maternal instinct over riding a slave instinct... hogwash.

quote:

As Norman detailed in Time Slave, the maternal instinct actually furthers the slave instinct by giving an additional reason for a girl to be pleasing so that she will be fed as well as her offspring. Granted, that was a survival issue, and not applicable to our lives today

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maya2001
Greeting Bull
I am not gorean and  a mere novice sub and only read the first couple pages, so my thought may have already been expressed already by others , if so I am sorry.
Reading an earlier comment I can understand the idea of gorean master wanting to protect his  slave and other property.  My highlighted portion of your post support my following thoughts about adapting western rules/laws to fit Gor.


In Gor, who took care of a masters property or slaves after his passing or if he  was no long mentally able to?  Is it workable  and will it guarantee protection of masters property  in the society we live in,  will it work for everyone including those who may have ex-wifes or greedy family members, wanting his assets or um's from a prior relationship?  If not then it may be necessary to adopt  and adapt the laws of earth inorder to fit your gorean culture , by keeping marriage at it simplest form in front of a JP with only witnesses inorder just to have the legal documents with the understanding that actual marriage is nothing more than a legal procedure necessary to making a last will and to ensure his assets are protected and his wishes are met..  The adaptation being she has no rights of a wife or FW she will remain slave, not wife  until the time he passes or  is no longer of sound mind, if other laws can be adapted or adhered to to fit gorean beliefs,  why not something along these lines if it will benefit the gor master???You  yourself may have no need of, as you may have few assets to protect, no family members who would contest a will, or  no um's from a prior relationship needing protection but many are not so fortunate so some form of adaptations of laws may be needed inorder to still  combine both worlds

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

Is a dominant male directly threatening her offspring?   If he is, she will most likely take her offspring and flee.  If she cannot flee, she will usually fight.   Keep in mind than infanticide is not an uncommon male behavior in primates.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Torvold
Yes, Lange is no anthropoligist to be sure, but then again, he never claimed to be. Besides, anthopology is all over the spectrum anyway with very few scholars agreeing on much of anything. My personal favorite was the 1800's pig bone identified as some new dinosaure.