Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are?

Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (Full Version)

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sirrand -> Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 7:14:29 PM)
I would like to ask a question. If a girl states she is a sub or a slave and then is offended by being called that what is she really? Wouldn't a true sub or slave be proud of who or what they are? I have noticed some subs act like brats and get offended if they are called, what they have declared them selves to be… are they using that as a test to see if a Dom/Master will verbally abuse them for their rudeness? Do they wish for a very strict Dom/Master? Do they need to be called on everything? Or they truly not what they say they are, not owned till they are owned? Maybe, it is a way of finding a sudodom who is really a submissive to their true Domme self? It is a puzzle. Any thoughts? One young lady answered: Most women prefer to be called by their names instead of being called sub or slave because it makes them feel reduced somehow, as if the only reason the dom thinks they exist is to submit to someone. You have to remember that these people are women and humans first. Although someo of them may use this as a test to see how dominant someone is, it is definitely not the case with most people. I know I despise being called sub because I feel it shows a lack of respect from the other person, as if he or she cannot be bothered to call me by me given name. I certainyl despise being called slave, well, because I am not a slave! lol I hope this answers your question. I replied with a joke, sort of; So there is no confusion collarme needs a new category called "I'm not till I am." lol She didn’t think the joke was funny and held her position; Collarme does not have a "I'm not 'till I am" feature because most people know better than to call someone they do not own either sub or slave. This was the crux of my argument; The Dom/Masters, that I have talked to, think it is disrespectful for a declared sub/slave not to recognize their rank. It seems a little petty either way to me. My position is I write it down at the top so the recipient understands I have read at least that much of their profile. Since they also object to my sending an introduction letter, and carp about me not reading their profile when they didn't even write much of anything. I feel I am acknowledging their wishes. What do the rest of you think. Obedience is Bless for the one who serves. Sir Rand

Isolde -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 8:00:45 PM)
Simple answer: I'm a submissive, not your submissive. I only respond to that title when it's used by my dominant. Any other dominant addressing me as such appears presumptuous and disrespectful, as if they're assuming they can demand submission from me when I haven't given it. Any dominant other than my own should refer to me as a person, not a submissive, and therefore use my name.

perverseangelic -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 8:05:00 PM)
Well, I am -not- a slave, a submissive, or a sub. I don't want to be called by those names because they don't fit me. My submission to my partner is NOT my rank. Submission, to me, isn't a rank. It's an identity. I am not in the submisisve role to everyone, nor do I have the desire to be. Some people like the identity of "slave" as "below everyone, in a service possition to everyone, respectful and obedient to everyone--owned by one." I can understand that, but it isn't who I am and doesnt' appeal to me. As such, I prefer NOT to be called by a title that implies a service possition by someone who I do not serve. Additionally, to me, "slave" "sub" "submissive" etc, to me, mean a very spesific idenitty and type of relationship interaction. They don't suit me, nor my relationship, so I don't use them, and to be called such results in me politely telling the person in question that I am not a slave/sub/submissive and would prefer to be called by my name. I chose "slave" on collarme, because it's one of the few options I've got.

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 8:24:29 PM)
It's not a matter of not being proud, it's a matter of social propriety. You don't call married women "wife" you call them Ms. Jones on first meeting and Betty after becoming friends or politely asking them. Presuming social closeness right off is terribly rude. Use the name you are introduced with (if it's slave, or cunt, or hole, great) until you have reached a social level of closeness or been given specific permission.

nella -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 8:32:39 PM)
i peronaly do not mind being called sub or even slave, but i dislike to be called dear, baby and such by strangers. Most here, do not like being treated like they are submissive to the world, becouse quite frankly they are not. And it is no wonder the girl you spoe whit got angry, if she told you not to call her a certin thing, and you made a joke as to her orientation and sincerinty, i would ahve been pissed to.

Fidelity -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 8:51:04 PM)
In shorthand..... You can use the title when you earned the right to. And not a second before then. Familiarity often breeds contempt for the overly familiar.[:D]

MtPleasantsubAsh -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 9:03:14 PM)
I concur! Here, here!!! wohoo, finally someone says it. it's okay to be called sub, i believe..but to expect submission is innapropriate, i think.. I dont know you yet, i have not commited myself to you, and just because i am a submissive, dosen't mean all have the right to dominate me. 'nough said.

doubleLeo -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 9:11:12 PM)
Maybe certain words are so powerful to their psyche, that to use them in any casual manner, OTHER than someone they know and trust is suspect to them? not sure...:-) I know when others call me "slave" casually , its not so much about me but more about them..How they are seeing me at the moment or feeling towards me..... it does not trigger me into an emotional response as it would if used by my Dominant. Not so much the words, but the intention behind it dL

DesertRat -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 9:30:58 PM)
While I was getting to know the girl who eventually did become my slave, I called her by her name. She was a slave, but not my slave. I even (gasp) capitalized her name. She called me by my name, and threw in increasingly frequent "Sirs". Still, she was just another citizen to me until the moment she let me know she wanted my collar. When she became my slave, I called her 'slave', 'girl', 'slut', etc., and stopped referring to her by her name and endearments like "you little snip". Similarly, she started calling me "Master", rather than "Bob", "Sir", or...my favorite..."senile old coot". Bob

imtempting -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 9:53:54 PM)
Im submissive,I dont need to be reminded that im submissive.

caitlyn -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 10:03:44 PM)
collarme needs more profile catagories

sirrand -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 10:46:19 PM)
There is more. A sub wrote to me; I saw something in your profile that struck a cord.....( If a girl states she is a sub or a slave and then is offended by being called that what is she really? Wouldn't a true sub or slave be proud of who or what they are? I have noticed some subs act like brats and get offended if they are called, what they have declared them selves to be… are they using that as a test to see if a Dom/Master will verbally abuse them for their rudeness? ) I have a given name and a nick that was given to me I feel that until someone gets to know me it should be used. This is what I feel to be mutual respect. And just because someone calls themselves something ....... doesn’t mean they are * smiles* I thank you for your opinion. I hope you will consider mine. So if I was to say sub sassy would you delete my letter? A formal declaration such as on the collarme site is not real? As I said further down I thought maybe a category called ‘I'm not till I am’ would not get your vote. I maybe old fashioned, but when a Dom/Master ask a girl 'Are you a submissive or a slave' and the girl's answered in the affirmative that was a declaration of intent. It also was a silent agreement between them both that they were interested in each other. In the mating dance of Dom/Master sub/slave this was the first step. I also said in my Journal; “This is the crux of my argument; The Dom/Masters, that I have talked to, think it is disrespectful for a declared sub/slave not to recognize their rank. It seems a little petty either way to me. My position is I write it down at the top so the recipient understands I have read at least that much of their profile. Since they also object to my sending an introduction letter, and carp about me not reading their profile when they didn't even write much of anything. I feel I am acknowledging their wishes.” So you don’t think that if I were to address you as sub or slave that I as a Master was not acknowledging your desire to be either. And that I was also declaring my interest in helping you attain that desire that you needed to help you be whole or you wouldn’t be declaring yourself on collarme. I feel it is not a presumption on my part but common courtesy and an acknowledgement of your deep need. Am I wrong? A gentleman friend and a Master. Sir Rand

sirrand -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 11:09:45 PM)
She came back with... I will take the spanking for not reading thoroughly ......... I actually do not get bent out of shape for being addressed that way though I prefer girl. It takes pressure off early chats.......... I do enjoy good D/s chat if you are interested in chatting I can be reached... I replied; Giri, sure I would love to chat. You might want to see the exchange over the question on the message board under ask a Master. I am going to post your latest reply, I know you won't mind as long as I keep you anonymous. SR

DesertRat -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/6/2005 11:15:13 PM)
I dunno, maybe you should talk to still more Doms to get more opinions. I see this as something that is really not a big deal unless you choose to make it one. If a girl tells me, or her profile indicates, she is a sub or a slave, I don't take that as some kind of legal 'declaration of intent'. Nor do I view it as a silent agreement between us. Mating dance? I guess it's all a mating dance, eh? Even this discussion, in a way. If your interaction with a woman isn't going the way you would like, a discussion of semantics won't really help that. Moving on to the next one and looking for that click would be more productive, in my opinion. If the magic is there, it's almost impossible to say anything wrong. If it's not there...well, nothing is gonna make it be there. Pointing out inconsistencies or flaws in logic are a waste of time. Shrugging it off and letting it go would be better, I think. Bob

ElektraUkM -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/7/2005 3:56:51 AM)
I agree with the majority of replies here ~ calling someone 'slave' isn't appropriate unless you're her master. The 'wife' analogy given by ES is perfect. I'd go further and say that if someone called me 'slave' before they were my master... and not only that, but argued about it and tried to point out how illogical my position was, they'd be saying goodbye really soon. It's just SO disrespectful and belittling! I am an individual first and foremost, and would expect to be treated like one by anyone with any intention of collaring me. (This is my personal opinion, not wishing to force my perspective on anyone else! I'm sure there are doms who would say they wouldn't want to collar such an uppity mare [:D]) ~ Elektra

Synocense -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/7/2005 5:43:09 AM)
When I read the replies to this post, I got the sense we were starting some sort of equal rights movement all over again. "I am a human being first and foremost...." "I am submissive, but not YOUR submissive, sodontEVENstartbossingmearound!" Ok, Ok, we get the picture. I don't feel my name and/or identity is being replaced when someone calls me "sub" or "slave" or "girl" - but that is because I can identify with each of those roles at some point, on some level. For those of you who do not define yourself as "sub" or "slave" have a legitimate beef with being called such. Those who do, good grief, lighten up, please. It's hard for me to believe someone would use these terms as an intentional personal attack. I can think of better words. s I don't liken it in any way with someone I am not married to calling me "wife" - to me it is something assiciated and particular with our chosen lifestyle. : ) Syn "A rose by any other name...."

sultryvoice -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/7/2005 6:00:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Isolde Simple answer: I'm a submissive, not your submissive. I only respond to that title when it's used by my dominant. Any other dominant addressing me as such appears presumptuous and disrespectful, as if they're assuming they can demand submission from me when I haven't given it. Any dominant other than my own should refer to me as a person, not a submissive, and therefore use my name. I agree here..This has always been my view. Luckily, I have only run across one Dom that addressed me like that and I told him just how I felt about it. He said he would not chage that his wayt was right and he addressed all like that..Someone like that has no respect for me or any sub/slave...that would scare me about how they would be in a relationship. No matter my title, respect is the number one thing for me..My name is what I answer to until I am "with" a Dom. Then it is at that time the decision could be made about what he will call me..sub, slut whatever, would be fine at that time. But my name is what I prefer. I am a person first..sub second.. Respectfully, sultry

nella -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/7/2005 7:02:50 AM)
caitlyn amen to that, more chategories are needed. As for the discussion, some Dom`s even go longer and calls a submissive they ahve just met, slut, now whatever or not that might be a name some Doms and subs like to use between them, to just call a girl slut is disrespectful.

Isolde -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/7/2005 7:05:41 AM)
Does she know you're sharing her emails here? You may want to ask if that's allowed, I'm not sure if it's all right to do that. I still say it's presumptuous. See, according to your reasoning, you are assuming that a simple "yes" to your asking if she's a submissive or slave is a declaration of intent. Assumption is bad. If someone were to ask me that question, of course I would say yes but it wouldn't be my secret way of telling them I have the hots for them when in fact I am happily taken. But "yes" is the correct answer to your question because I am submissive and I prefer honesty, even with strangers. So let me repeat: I am a submissive. I am not your submissive, and you should never ever assume anything about the people you contact. Ask "May I refer to you as sub so'n'so?" instead and maybe you have an argument.

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/7/2005 9:23:10 AM)
First off, posting private emails from others on a public forum is generally bad taste and bad netiquette. Secondly, my being a slave is not a "rank" it's an orientation. At gay bars people don't call me "Bisexual female" and the question of calling me that or not and somehow I should be proud of it and thus referred as that is simply ridiculous. Using something other than a name given to you to use is rude, period. If they say "Hi Sirrand, I'm cumslut" then you either call her cumslut OR ask politely "Is there something else you'd prefer or that I could use instead?" Those are your only polite options. To turn around and suggest its HER lack of pride at not wanting to be called slave or anything else is just appalling and shows a complete lack of social skills on your part.

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