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RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/14/2007 4:15:56 PM

Posts: 345
Joined: 7/11/2004
From: Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream

When the Westword article was written, the financial situation wasn't as bad. The female part of the ownership has suffered tremendous medical problems and expenses, and they just don't have the funds to fight this on their own anymore.

Sorry to hear that they've encountered medical and financial problems.

quote:

We have had a club closed here in Denver also. The Labyrinth. Believe me, when a city sets out to close a club of this nature, they ALWAYS look for some kind of zoning or code issue to use to close it so they don't have to face the real reason. The Enclave has adhered to every single code on the books, and that is why the city has not been able to use a code violation to shut them down.

I think you missed the point about those clubs that have been rightfully closed due to code violations. If they were legal, like the Enclave, they too would have had successful outcomes in court. Many businesses are closed for code violations, not just kinky ones.

quote:

There is a donation option on their website for donations to the legal defense. Any help would be appreciated.

Kewl beans. Can you post a link so folks can donate?

John

The link for the Enclave... enclavewest is in my signature. The donation button is on the opening page.

Thank you for any help you can give us.

_____________________________

Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

check out: www.enclaveproductions.com
www.enclavewest.com

(in reply to Rover)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/14/2007 4:19:18 PM

Posts: 345
Joined: 7/11/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream

We have had a club closed here in Denver also. The Labyrinth. Believe me, when a city sets out to close a club of this nature, they ALWAYS look for some kind of zoning or code issue to use to close it so they don't have to face the real reason. The Enclave has adhered to every single code on the books, and that is why the city has not been able to use a code violation to shut them down.

There is a donation option on their website for donations to the legal defense. Any help would be appreciated.

The Denver Sanctuary has been in business as a leather/BDSM lifestyle club for awhile now, and the Harbour for several years before them. The City and County of Denver is aware of their presence and has had a hands-off relationship with the club so far, despite one person repeatedly making anonymous complaints. Denver and Commerce City are very different, but it's definitely an enforcement choice made by respective city authorities, subject to change without notice. There'd be a lot more assurance of legal protection if there were more legal precedent around the country, but when you get a prosecutor with a bug up their bum, as is happening in Commerce City, and they want to keep prosecuting minutae with the intent of bleeding a business dry, they'll do that. Contributing to the legal defense fund will help the Enclave set a legal precedent.

Are there more fundraisers coming up?

The last fund raiser was The Taste of Leather that we held last month. The next one we hope to do in January.... a Dom/slave auction. (Highest bidder gets either negotiated services or a public scene. All to be within guidelines and negotiated, of course.) We appreciate your help, Saskia. You have stepped up in the past, and we hope you will continue to do so in the future. Thank you.

_____________________________

Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

check out: www.enclaveproductions.com
www.enclavewest.com

(in reply to MsSaskia)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/14/2007 4:42:46 PM

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fast reply-
I seem to recall the Chateau here in Los Angeles was fully licensed, for non-sexual scening, as a pro-Domme venue.

(in reply to MsSaskia)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/14/2007 6:50:25 PM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Rover stop seducing me dammit.

What about Woodhull?

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(in reply to AnimusRex)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/14/2007 7:03:31 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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I have no idea how you can resist. It's the prison thing, isn't it?

John

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/14/2007 7:12:36 PM

Posts: 1224
Status: offline

There's nothing i can do to affect the outcome of this litigation, but i just wanted to post and offer my support and sympathy for those affected, particularly the investors who stand to lose a great deal of money. It seems pretty clear the city's motive for litigation is to suppress D/s activities, even gatherings, and that kind of repression is repugnant.

i hope the Club wins.

pinksugarsub

_____________________________

(in reply to Rover)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/14/2007 7:29:23 PM

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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When I saw the title of this post it interested me because I've applied to two different universities in Denver and part of the reason was the active scene community that seemed to be there.

I do hope it works out for you all. If we were there, my family would certainly be helping to keep the scene community alive in general if not in a specific case.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to MystressDream)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/14/2007 9:22:15 PM

Posts: 345
Joined: 7/11/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

When I saw the title of this post it interested me because I've applied to two different universities in Denver and part of the reason was the active scene community that seemed to be there.

I do hope it works out for you all. If we were there, my family would certainly be helping to keep the scene community alive in general if not in a specific case.

I hope if your family chooses to move to Denver that I will be able to be one of the ones to welcome you here. It really is a beautiful place to live.

_____________________________

Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

check out: www.enclaveproductions.com
www.enclavewest.com

(in reply to thetammyjo)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 1:21:00 AM

CollegeConundrum

Posts: 322
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline

Good.

People need to take the fight to these motherfuckers and not just for BDSM but for private freedom in general.

(in reply to MsSaskia)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 4:41:53 AM

Posts: 89
Joined: 8/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream
The Enclave IS a private membership club. But, BDSM doesn't have a place in the traditional zoning codes, so they have determined it falls under an "adult entertainment" license. If they are able to stay open and operating after this new batch of legal fees, they intend to fight for an actual "BDSM" zoning classification. But, for now, if they don't get some monetary help, the fight will be over.

Do you know if anyone around the country has been able to get legal recognition (zoning or other changes) that specifies BDSM? If there's a precedent, it'd help the Enclave's case, I'd think. Would the NCSF know?

Our research hasn't found any anywhere in the country... and the attorney's haven't been able to locate any precedents either. That is why this fight is so crucial. NCSF hasn't been helpful in any way whatsoever. All they say is they are watching it with interest, and MAY offer advice if the Supreme Court finds in favor of the Enclave and the owners can find attorneys to sue the city in a civil suit.

There's a club in Washington DC called the Crucible. Not sure how they are listed in the zoning/licensing, but they, to the best of my knowldege, are an openly BDSM club. They host alot of the Black Rose parties, and others like it. maybe they can contact them and see if they can use that as an example. Dunno.

good luck!

http://www.the-crucible.com/front.htm

(in reply to MystressDream)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 5:58:57 AM

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

When I saw the title of this post it interested me because I've applied to two different universities in Denver and part of the reason was the active scene community that seemed to be there.

I do hope it works out for you all. If we were there, my family would certainly be helping to keep the scene community alive in general if not in a specific case.

I hope if your family chooses to move to Denver that I will be able to be one of the ones to welcome you here. It really is a beautiful place to live.

Let's all keep our fingers crossed that I get many first interviews and then several on campus visits and finally at least one offer. Academia is it's own little world in terms of jobs and it's almost impossible to explain to anyone outside the system.

Today's goal: Finish three more applications then I have only three more to go. Then it's out of my hands again.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to MystressDream)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 7:49:08 AM

Posts: 345
Joined: 7/11/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sammy7626

quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream
The Enclave IS a private membership club. But, BDSM doesn't have a place in the traditional zoning codes, so they have determined it falls under an "adult entertainment" license. If they are able to stay open and operating after this new batch of legal fees, they intend to fight for an actual "BDSM" zoning classification. But, for now, if they don't get some monetary help, the fight will be over.

Do you know if anyone around the country has been able to get legal recognition (zoning or other changes) that specifies BDSM? If there's a precedent, it'd help the Enclave's case, I'd think. Would the NCSF know?

Our research hasn't found any anywhere in the country... and the attorney's haven't been able to locate any precedents either. That is why this fight is so crucial. NCSF hasn't been helpful in any way whatsoever. All they say is they are watching it with interest, and MAY offer advice if the Supreme Court finds in favor of the Enclave and the owners can find attorneys to sue the city in a civil suit.

There's a club in Washington DC called the Crucible. Not sure how they are listed in the zoning/licensing, but they, to the best of my knowldege, are an openly BDSM club. They host alot of the Black Rose parties, and others like it. maybe they can contact them and see if they can use that as an example. Dunno.

good luck!

http://www.the-crucible.com/front.htm

There are several large clubs in the larger cities that operate as open BDSM clubs. Cities like NY, LA, SF, for example, have no problem with these clubs operating. I don't know whether they require any special licensing for them, or if they just allow them to exist.

Even Denver itself is tolerant of a BDSM club. As MsSaskia has stated, the other club, which is located in Denver operates under the "it's ok for now" policy of the Denver authorities. As long as there are no wavs made, and nobody running for election decides to make it a big deal, then it will continue. But, Denver does not even have the proper zoning and license for a BDSM club.

Once the fight is won for the permanent license under the adult entertainment classification, then the fight would start to get an actual BDSM classification in the books. The Enclave doesn't want to stop at just getting the adult entertainment license. They want to push the authorities into creating a legal definition and license for exactly what we do.

They need the help of the community worldwide to accomplish this. Colorado is known for some of it's groundbreaking legislation... this is an excellent location to push for this kind of thing.

Once again... Thank you all for your interest.. I just hope you give us more than verbal support if you can. If you can't, please crosspost this information and help us fight this battle.

_____________________________

Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

check out: www.enclaveproductions.com
www.enclavewest.com

(in reply to sammy7626)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 12:03:12 PM

Posts: 345
Joined: 7/11/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

When I saw the title of this post it interested me because I've applied to two different universities in Denver and part of the reason was the active scene community that seemed to be there.

I do hope it works out for you all. If we were there, my family would certainly be helping to keep the scene community alive in general if not in a specific case.

I hope if your family chooses to move to Denver that I will be able to be one of the ones to welcome you here. It really is a beautiful place to live.

Let's all keep our fingers crossed that I get many first interviews and then several on campus visits and finally at least one offer. Academia is it's own little world in terms of jobs and it's almost impossible to explain to anyone outside the system.

Today's goal: Finish three more applications then I have only three more to go. Then it's out of my hands again.

Well, it's a bit hard to type with my fingers crossed, but I do wish you well and all the luck in the world. You will love Denver if you relocate here.

_____________________________

Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

check out: www.enclaveproductions.com
www.enclavewest.com

(in reply to thetammyjo)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 2:45:07 PM

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

Do you know if anyone around the country has been able to get legal recognition (zoning or other changes) that specifies BDSM? If there's a precedent, it'd help the Enclave's case, I'd think. Would the NCSF know?

Years back, Washington DC was harangued until they changed their ABC/Liquor codes to allow flogging and other types of SM activities in licensed premises (aka bars.) I don't recall the exact year or specifics, but I'm sure folks on the current Black Rose board would be able to get specifics.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to MsSaskia)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 6:33:26 PM

Posts: 345
Joined: 7/11/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

Do you know if anyone around the country has been able to get legal recognition (zoning or other changes) that specifies BDSM? If there's a precedent, it'd help the Enclave's case, I'd think. Would the NCSF know?

Years back, Washington DC was harangued until they changed their ABC/Liquor codes to allow flogging and other types of SM activities in licensed premises (aka bars.) I don't recall the exact year or specifics, but I'm sure folks on the current Black Rose board would be able to get specifics.

Thank you. That information will be passed on. I appreciate the interest of all who have posted here.

_____________________________

Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

check out: www.enclaveproductions.com
www.enclavewest.com

(in reply to MisPandora)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 7:36:19 PM

Posts: 51
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline

I live in Colorado Springs and I would be happy to help out any way that I can. I have a very close Dom friend that lives here too and he will help out as well. Neither of us are in a position at this time to monetarily help, but we'll do anything else until which time we are better able to monetarily help out. Is the auction in January open to those of us that are non-members? Feel free to e-mail me with anything I can do. :-)

-edited to add- I posted the OP on another forum that I read. I'll forward any helpful information to you MystressDream.

< Message edited by clover0320 -- 11/15/2007 7:44:04 PM >

(in reply to MystressDream)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 8:00:58 PM

Posts: 345
Joined: 7/11/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: clover0320

I live in Colorado Springs and I would be happy to help out any way that I can. I have a very close Dom friend that lives here too and he will help out as well. Neither of us are in a position at this time to monetarily help, but we'll do anything else until which time we are better able to monetarily help out. Is the auction in January open to those of us that are non-members? Feel free to e-mail me with anything I can do. :-)

-edited to add- I posted the OP on another forum that I read. I'll forward any helpful information to you MystressDream.

Thank you, clover0320. If you can't make a donation, you might consider coming up and attending a mixer or two. We have several members from the Springs. <smile> If you do, ask for me at the door and I would love to meet you.

_____________________________

Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

check out: www.enclaveproductions.com
www.enclavewest.com

(in reply to clover0320)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 8:16:09 PM

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Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

I wish you the best of luck on your fight One of the problems is we are in an election year. No one wants to rock the vote. In the past a lot of clubs have brought drugs or have brought in things that have been harmful to the community. When you see public things like Folsom did in front of ums and families that is a bit to far. With freedom of expression. comes freedom of responsibility. There is a right time and place for everything
this year might not be a good one for activist causes with ncsf or ACLU. Just an observation

Prior to this post, I want to apologize in advance to MystressDream, I do not know the particulars about this fight and I'm not sure (based on my kink factor and enjoyment of it) that I'd want my local dungeon to be part of the local "chamber of commence" I really hope that it all turns out positive. Now with that said:
Latex,

There is no way that I am going to sit back and let you post this and slam clubs RE: drugs etc! The first leather bar was a public licensed bar in Chicago! There are several nightclubs, bars, clubs, etc that sell alcohol that are good standing citizens. You're comments about Folsom is crap, do you realize how much money they donate to great causes in San Francisco? As well as how many local leather groups get active with the Folsom Street Fair? Are you the authority on what is harmful for the community?

Z-

Let me put it this way. There is a move to ban a lot of things in our country. under tone you might say. the religious right is a sleeping giant. Now you can keep pounding away at a public freedom this and that. But when you step and offend and shove your concept of life the universe so far down certian groups throat they get pissed. only need to watch the news and see patterns on social society change.
Do not take my word I do not care. Does not matter to me one way or the other was doing ds before the net and before it became fashiion statement.

If you think i am slamming anything. Then you do not understand my point.
do what want be what you want. just keep in mind. Politically certian orgs are bigger and have more power then other ones Also keep in mind the supreme court is more right then left just a point

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 11:09:35 PM

Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline

You might want to ask your question about precedents at the BDSMLegalIssues mailinglist at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BDSM-LegalIssues

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver - 11/15/2007 11:34:47 PM

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Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline

the URL for the crucible is http://www.the-crucible.com/front.htm.

I'm sure if you called or emailed fraizer would love to help you out!

(in reply to Guilty1974)

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