RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver

RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (Full Version)

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MystressDream -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/16/2007 7:28:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Guilty1974 You might want to ask your question about precedents at the BDSMLegalIssues mailinglist at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BDSM-LegalIssues Thank you for the link. I will certainly pass this on to the owners of the club. What is really needed now is monetary support for this cause. I would think everyone on collarme who wishes we could do what we do without prejudice would be interested in helping. I hope I am not wrong in asking for the help.

MystressDream -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/16/2007 7:30:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dyingsexy the URL for the crucible is http://www.the-crucible.com/front.htm. I'm sure if you called or emailed fraizer would love to help you out! *Thank you. I believe the Crucible has been contacted once, but, I will check and make sure.* edited to add: It amazes me that the clubs around the country don't seem to be interested in this fight. It could end up having national signficance. I guess, like most, people in this lifestyle and the business of making money off of those who enjoy the public clubs, will sit back and wait for someone else to lay everything they have on the line to fight for something they can then benefit from. I'm just hoping this plea for help doesn't go unanswered. Thank you.

PhoenixRed -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/16/2007 4:05:49 PM)
I believe that the situation in Denver can have a very favorable impact nationally, in that, if they are successful in squashing the city's appeal, it could set a legal precedent. THAT would be a big leap forward for the community at large. I'm not very active in my local community at this time. When an issue like this arises, I am reminded of how important community is. I am going to start going to local munches and monthly events. I will be alerting them to this situation and requesting that a fundraiser be planned, even if it's only one event per group. If we could all do that within our communities, it would make a large difference. Reality is, that when dealing with legal struggles, especially vs. a government entity, money talks and many times decides the outcome of the case...the one with more can bleed the one with less until they can no longer fight. Not only will that effectively close the club, but also remember how many individual's lives and livelyhoods that will affect as well. Financial domination seems to be a hot topic on the boards and endlessly rehashed... Where are all those into "financial domination" when you need them????? [:)] Step on up, you could be benefitting a number of Dom/mes by contributing... wouldn't that make you feel even more subservient, hmmmmm? Thanks, MystressDream for making us aware of this struggle. You have my support.

grlneedstolearn -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/16/2007 4:20:28 PM)
i have been there a couple times with an active member and it's a great great place for people to go. Munches on Sat. [:D]. Because, from what i've heard through the active members, that this is one of the biggest in the state of CO, if not the largest, and for it go, people from up north are going to have a hard time finding another place to go. i'm all for it staying open, but what can you do when the CO Supreme Court are being idiots about it?

PhoenixRed -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/16/2007 4:26:59 PM)
It is a great place from what I've heard...I haven't had the pleasure of visiting yet, but I think a road trip may be necessary in the near future.... What can you do? Support those who are spearheading this fight (morally and financially). Talk to people in your own community. Post about the situation in other forums on other sites you may belong to..... K, people help me out here, where did the quote "all it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing" come from (admittedly badly paraphrased)....

MystressDream -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/17/2007 1:02:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PhoenixRed I believe that the situation in Denver can have a very favorable impact nationally, in that, if they are successful in squashing the city's appeal, it could set a legal precedent. THAT would be a big leap forward for the community at large. I'm not very active in my local community at this time. When an issue like this arises, I am reminded of how important community is. I am going to start going to local munches and monthly events. I will be alerting them to this situation and requesting that a fundraiser be planned, even if it's only one event per group. If we could all do that within our communities, it would make a large difference. Reality is, that when dealing with legal struggles, especially vs. a government entity, money talks and many times decides the outcome of the case...the one with more can bleed the one with less until they can no longer fight. Not only will that effectively close the club, but also remember how many individual's lives and livelyhoods that will affect as well. Financial domination seems to be a hot topic on the boards and endlessly rehashed... Where are all those into "financial domination" when you need them????? [:)] Step on up, you could be benefitting a number of Dom/mes by contributing... wouldn't that make you feel even more subservient, hmmmmm? Thanks, MystressDream for making us aware of this struggle. You have my support. Thank you so much for your support. We are getting some people here stepping forward offering to help, and it is encouraging to see that there are a few in this community who can see the importance of this fight. I can't thank you enough.

cetacea -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/17/2007 6:05:52 AM)
Please, anyone that can help! This affects everyone in BDSM communities across the country, not just us here in Denver. Enclave is like a home to me, the owners are amazing people, i don't know what i would do if they had to shut down!

cetacea -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/17/2007 7:35:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: clover0320 I live in Colorado Springs and I would be happy to help out any way that I can. I have a very close Dom friend that lives here too and he will help out as well. Neither of us are in a position at this time to monetarily help, but we'll do anything else until which time we are better able to monetarily help out. Is the auction in January open to those of us that are non-members? Feel free to e-mail me with anything I can do. :-) -edited to add- I posted the OP on another forum that I read. I'll forward any helpful information to you MystressDream. Any support is welcome, even if its just attending the club regularly! Any money in the door helps to support our club. Also, we welcome baked goodies anytime grins

cetacea -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/17/2007 7:38:58 AM)
To all that are suggesting we contact other clubs... please know that this has been done, if you are a member of a club perhaps if you brought our issue to their attention there might be more of a willingness to help.

RosaB -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/17/2007 8:01:02 AM)
Hoping the club's owners are successful in their plight. I took a look at the sight via the link and all I can say is WOW! What an amazing set up, I've not ever seen a bdsm club so well rounded. Almost makes me want to relocate to the area. (Too bad I'm allergic to cold temps). The clubs seems to offer a way to give people an opportunity to socialize in a way that takes away some of the stress of walking into a venue and not knowing what to do with ones self. They actually offer us kinky folks a variety of non bdsm interactive activities. What a great way to better encourage people to mingle and get to know each other at an event. This one venue I hope to see stick around, and even though, I'm not able to directly, take part in its activities. I will do what I can to support it, as stated, its a battle that has repercussions that are far reaching. Rosa

MystressDream -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/17/2007 8:05:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RosaB Hoping the club's owners are successful in their plight. I took a look at the sight via the link and all I can say is WOW! What an amazing set up, I've not ever seen a bdsm club so well rounded. Almost makes me want to relocate to the area. (Too bad I'm allergic to cold temps). The clubs seems to offer a way to give people an opportunity to socialize in a way that takes away some of the stress of walking into a venue and not knowing what to do with ones self. They actually offer us kinky folks a variety of non bdsm interactive activities. What a great way to better encourage people to mingle and get to know each other at an event. This one venue I hope to see stick around, and even though, I'm not able to directly, take part in its activities. I will do what I can to support it, as stated, its a battle that has repercussions that are far reaching. Rosa Thank you Rosa... <smile> And, yes, it is an amazing facility. We have had visitors from NY, LA, Seattle, Chicago and Dallas tell us they have never seen anything quite like it. A dungeon facility with the feel of a social club. There is a donation button on the opening page of the website for those who wish to help us. If you can't help us, please pass the word on to those you know who can. *Thank you*

MystressDream -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/17/2007 12:18:32 PM)
*I want to thank all of you who have been emailing me directly about this issue. It is heartening to know there are some out there who care. Thank you.*

teesa -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/17/2007 1:05:06 PM)
I don't have all the experiance that some have when it comes to being in the lifestyale or being on the scene. However, what I do have is a love of people that will fight for what they belive in. I will back them up as much as I can any day. I may not always agree with a persons fight but I admire a person that has balls enought to fight for what they belive. That being said.... I fully support the fight that the Enclave is making. I belive this is and can be a very good thing for the BDSM community. I am only here to send out a second on MystressDream's call for help. These are great people and a beautiful place to play and enjoy the company of some wonderful people.

MystressDream -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/18/2007 1:23:33 AM)
*Thank you Teesa... <smile>*

DenverBear -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/18/2007 3:19:44 AM)
MistressDream, I just cruised by the Enclave's website. I would like to point out to those who read this thread that on the site, the owners of the Enclave have made audio files and documentation concerning their legal fight available. These are offered freely to help other clubs deal with the zoning and legal issues involved in trying to comply with municipal regulations and tactics. In terms of presenting the lifestyle in a positive light, I don't know what would be more effective than keeping open a legally zoned club with a valid business license . There are so many ways that local goveernment can find regulational and procedural ways to obstruct businesses against which they have a bias. Those people so satisfied that their local municipalities are not hassling local clubs should remember that administrations change, and it has been generations since there have been such strong assaults on the US Constitution and the rights of the individual. Having a legal club remain open, particularly a club whose owners are actively giving back to the community, is a victory for everyone in the lifestyle and anyone who treasures their civil rights. DB

cetacea -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/18/2007 7:38:08 AM)
to anyone in the Denver area.... if you weren't at Enclave last night you missed a great demo by MystressDream as well as some fabulous brisket provided by one of our members

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/18/2007 11:25:19 AM)
any watching the political debates or am i the only one. I guess people are not noticing the social changes shrugs

HouseWulf -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/18/2007 12:22:19 PM)
Hello everyone, I've been in the scene here in Denver for many years and I've seent things come and go. What baffles me is the inconsistancy in the "community". Now I use that term lightly because we do not have a community; LA has a community; SF has a community; NYC has a community because they have an established presence of dedicated people. Here in Denver you have a group of weekend warriors, dabblers and perverted troubadores spouting community and the by-lines of "Community". There are very few people who acutally live this, understand this as a way of life and make the commitment to further a real sense of Community. Unfortunately these few people are getting tired of the part timers who see this as just a way to get off. I know...I am one of the tired ones. We spout all the platitudes, we say the catch phrases and yet when it comes down to stepping up...it's about letting the other guy do it while we trot along placidly in a self absorbed bubble until we are hit upside the head with a tree branch. The Enclave is a last, best hope to create a community, not some "undergound" and our so-called community is letting it fail. The owners have fought a valient battle, they've done something that few if any BDSM Club owners have ever tried...legality....yet they are exhausted, drained and the City will win. The Bureacrats will win, the Blue Noses will win, prejudice will win, descrimination will win and worst of all...our freedoms will be dragged in the dirt because some anally retentive, psyco-sexually repressed parasite politician thinks their view of the world should dictate who and what we are. And the majority of our community turns a blind eye to this. They don't care...as long as they are not inconvieninaced. This reminds me of what the Nazi Regime did in Germany, they chose a group and removed their right to exist. No one did anything and the Nazis moved to the next group and removed their right to exist...so on and so forth until there was no one left to fight against them for their rights...they were all too afraid of the Nazis. Now we are facing a similar thing. To be sure our lives aren't at stake, but our freedoms are. Sure the City won't raid the place risking a constitutional issue...what they WILL do is drag things out and suck the last financial vestiges from the owners...who will then close the doors and the City wins. That is power at it's most repugnant essence at work. I would like to ask each and every person who reads this to think about one thing... why do you wait to help? During the Revolutionary War Patrick Henery exhorted the members of the Virginia State House to join the fight. His words ring true today just as they did then: " It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, "Peace! Peace!" -- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death! Patrick Henry - March 23, 1775 Our chains are being forged in Commerce City, why stand we here idle? What is it the community wants, what would they have? Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of the casual destruction of our civil rights. I know not what course others will take but I will never stop fighting this type of oppression, how about YOU? BlackWulf

cetacea -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/18/2007 12:49:27 PM)
Here, Here Sir! Well said BW Sir :)

DragonLady1971 -> RE: BDSM Crisis in Denver (11/18/2007 6:02:31 PM)
Being a member of the Enclave, it would be a shame for such a fine club to close. The community needs to band together on this. Locals, start showing more support and attend both nights. Don't let our club close down. This battle could help all of us in the long run if the win. Do you want them to dictate everything on how we live our lives? We kinksters need to show the owners our support.

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