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The Gorean Experiment - 12/10/2007 2:05:48 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
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Tal Free
Greetings slaves,

I have heard this term often. (The Gorean Experiment)

Personally, I do not view it in any way shape or form, an experiment. Actually, if JN never wrote the books about Gor, we would not, today have the word Gorean at all. obviously. So, what would we have in it's stead?...I believe we would have what we could call, Natural Human Law.
Not societal law, but rather behavioral law. Something we had already and something that was our way of life for eons.
Todays societal ways are what I feel to be the true experiment and I also feel, failing miserably.
I have mentioned in other threads, various times, that I feel womens Lib and other affiliated groups were the beginnings of the break down of our structured lives.
No, maybe it did not start with WL, but to me it certainly was the most recognized start of the breakdown.
No life was not perfect when men were what I would say, at the top of it all, but we did not have the atrocities or blatent destruction of natural order, we do today.
Men and women were not the complacent beings they have become today.
Men were the bread winners, the leaders of family and country, the solid foundation of our culture.
Women were the emtional stablness to our men and children the mens companioned sounding board of sorts.While men made our homes and country safe to live in, women made it safe and secure by easing the minds of men by taking care of hearth and home his children and giving them a sense of peace and security he needed to have in order to relax when he came home to the home he worked so hard for.
No, There is no Gorean Experiment, I feel the ideals, philosophies, the moralities are everything we already know and have lived. It is the new, everyone is equally the same and no gender is better then the other at any life task, that is the experiment.
I feel Goreans are only getting back to bare roots. Having the desire and drive to live life as God intended. I know not all, believe in God, so I will also express it in this term..as natural evolution had intended.
Progress can be an asset in the human race, but it can also be our destruction and I feel has already started being our destruction.
Will we continue to cut off our noses in this world, despite our face, or will the rest of the world end up, opening their eyes wide and see, what we who are living Goreans already see?
We say, slaves give themselves over consensually. Maybe this is true, but how can one say it is consensual, when in reality it is only what is natural and what in their souls know it can be no other way. As with Free, I use to say, this is (my chosen lifestyle) I have come to realize, this is not my chosen lifestyle, it is infact, what I am, what I always have been and what I always will be.same as the slaves, only worded a bit differant.
I live a life, (in my opinion) that my heavenly father intended me to live. Or, for others. What evolution laid out for them.

I just wanted to express my feelings tonight, after reading and catching up on some threads. I hope it was thought provoking or at least a pleasant read.

I wish all well,
Maahsatti

< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 12/10/2007 2:10:50 AM >


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/10/2007 9:51:09 AM   
noyeh


Posts: 501
Joined: 4/4/2006
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Greetings Masters,
Greetings Mistress Maahsatti,
Greetings Mistresses,
Greetings fellow slaves,

I totally agree with you 100%.  Even without the word gorean many people of earth have lived the philosophies ever since the beginning of time. Norman Just happened to create a  fictional story using the old philosophies that have been with us since the Dawn of Man and will be with us till the end. Its only Mother nature taking its course. Even evolution cannot stop the "truth" of the philosophies.



wishing all well,

< Message edited by noyeh -- 12/10/2007 9:52:22 AM >


_____________________________

personal slave of Master Jeff the Seeker
His property slave slut and pet
His concubine/first girl of the House of the Seeker

noyeh-JtS-fg

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/10/2007 9:58:18 AM   
aeleberaNB


Posts: 690
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Alberta, Calgary, Canada
Status: offline
Greetings Mistress Maahsatti:

Thank You for the thought provoking post.

i agree with You wholeheartedly.

wishing You well,
aeleberaNB



_____________________________

He is the Master, i am His slave, His property, His muse to do with as He pleases, when and where He pleases. Trust in thy Master as HE knows what is best for His property.

(in reply to Maahsatti)
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RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/10/2007 10:00:01 AM   
Dddyanlittlegirl


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That does have some truth in it.

_____________________________

"Without trust there is no relationship."

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RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/10/2007 11:21:52 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7259
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
Good afternoon Mistress Maahsatti

I pretty much agree with what you have said.

Ahhh society. LOL. I think that the opinions of ‘society’ are pretty amusing if you want the truth. Everyone is so concerned about not offending each other that they have forgotten how to be themselves. It may be wrong; but I truly do laugh about it sometimes.

Maybe it’s just because I refuse to blend into what society thinks is right; I know I am an oddity and I don’t even try to hide it. I just let myself be myself and who ever does not like it…well…that’s their cross to bear, not mine.

A Gorean Experiment. LOL. I find labels truly fascinating. Everyone trying to label themselves; define themselves; all so that the so called society can have a better understanding of who and what they are. Perhaps that is why I argue with anyone who says that my past relationships were Gorean. I was the way I was long before I ever read a book, long before I ever knew what the terms submissive, slave, Master, Dominant, Mistress…even meant. I simply AM. Life itself is one big experiment; I hope it never ends.

Have a most wonderful day

mist

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.
Real people are not perfect.
Perfect people are not real.

(in reply to Maahsatti)
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RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/10/2007 4:48:52 PM   
shantraMSW


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Joined: 12/8/2007
Status: offline
Greetings Mistress Maahsatti,

I just wanted to say that you put in to words, and beautifully, a great many things Master and I believe.

Thank you for the post.

Respectfully, shantra

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/10/2007 4:57:39 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline


This space intentionally left blank^Wcranky.

< Message edited by Aswad -- 12/10/2007 4:58:05 PM >


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/11/2007 8:48:19 AM   
Akashaa


Posts: 11
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
what a good post. I've been wondering if the gor thing is really more of the 1950's thing done up with creatures and stuff. like the whole man is dominant woman is submissive mindset, and socially people were sposed to be honorable but where black men and women were called "boys" and "girls" to remind them that they were from slave class and to keep them down. from what i've heard that's what women's lib broke up really, the 1950's pleasantville deal. so i wonder if the whole attraction to the gor thing is like a reactionary conservative "make it all go away and be the good old days again" impulse. I may be wrong, but it seems there's some connection there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

Tal Free
Greetings slaves,

I have heard this term often. (The Gorean Experiment)

Personally, I do not view it in any way shape or form, an experiment. Actually, if JN never wrote the books about Gor, we would not, today have the word Gorean at all. obviously. So, what would we have in it's stead?...I believe we would have what we could call, Natural Human Law.
Not societal law, but rather behavioral law. Something we had already and something that was our way of life for eons.
Todays societal ways are what I feel to be the true experiment and I also feel, failing miserably.
I have mentioned in other threads, various times, that I feel womens Lib and other affiliated groups were the beginnings of the break down of our structured lives.
No, maybe it did not start with WL, but to me it certainly was the most recognized start of the breakdown.
No life was not perfect when men were what I would say, at the top of it all, but we did not have the atrocities or blatent destruction of natural order, we do today.
Men and women were not the complacent beings they have become today.
Men were the bread winners, the leaders of family and country, the solid foundation of our culture.
Women were the emtional stablness to our men and children the mens companioned sounding board of sorts.While men made our homes and country safe to live in, women made it safe and secure by easing the minds of men by taking care of hearth and home his children and giving them a sense of peace and security he needed to have in order to relax when he came home to the home he worked so hard for.
No, There is no Gorean Experiment, I feel the ideals, philosophies, the moralities are everything we already know and have lived. It is the new, everyone is equally the same and no gender is better then the other at any life task, that is the experiment.
I feel Goreans are only getting back to bare roots. Having the desire and drive to live life as God intended. I know not all, believe in God, so I will also express it in this term..as natural evolution had intended.
Progress can be an asset in the human race, but it can also be our destruction and I feel has already started being our destruction.
Will we continue to cut off our noses in this world, despite our face, or will the rest of the world end up, opening their eyes wide and see, what we who are living Goreans already see?
We say, slaves give themselves over consensually. Maybe this is true, but how can one say it is consensual, when in reality it is only what is natural and what in their souls know it can be no other way. As with Free, I use to say, this is (my chosen lifestyle) I have come to realize, this is not my chosen lifestyle, it is infact, what I am, what I always have been and what I always will be.same as the slaves, only worded a bit differant.
I live a life, (in my opinion) that my heavenly father intended me to live. Or, for others. What evolution laid out for them.

I just wanted to express my feelings tonight, after reading and catching up on some threads. I hope it was thought provoking or at least a pleasant read.

I wish all well,
Maahsatti

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/11/2007 8:52:14 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 37392
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
Maybe the  0250s or the 0350s or the ....0950s or the 1050s........need to round yourself out a little, kiddo.

Pick up a book, have a read.  Your library is free and a wealth of knowledge.

Ron

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to Akashaa)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/11/2007 9:10:33 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 1470
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
Tal and greetings
 
Maahsatti thank you for a well written essay.  Your view echos much of what some Social Scientist have been saying.  In their view, society has become to techincal, social roles have become undefined, thus many of the problems in modern cultural occured.  Some do agrue the need to return to such ways, other point out the points of roles and structure are neccessary, as the late Bill Campbell did. 
 
I wish you well
 
Nosathro

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/11/2007 11:37:11 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
Actually, Akashaa made a sadly accurate observation... for some, the 50's household bits are what Gor is about. And, as far as I can tell, that's hardly how it's supposed to be. The values are different. The morality and philosophy are alien to the mindset of that era. As for the bits on how men and women relate, the FC is freer than the 50's wife, and the kajira infinitely less so. Diminishing Gor to mere ludditic romanticisim is nothing short of appalling.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/11/2007 1:45:23 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:


Diminishing Gor to mere ludditic romanticisim is nothing short of appalling.


I did no such thing and is not what my post was suggesting.

I wish you well,
Babs



_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/11/2007 10:13:04 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
Greetings Maah,

I am at least glad to see Free Women speaking of these things, even though I do not fully understand why. Gor was written, the series has been read, the series has been studied, some of the things are applied here.

If someone did not call the color blue, blue, then what would we have called it?

Live well,
Orion

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to Maahsatti)
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RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/12/2007 5:48:45 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

I did no such thing and is not what my post was suggesting.


I was not referring to your post, but to a general trend I've observed on these boards.
If you feel the finger is pointed at you, ask yourself why, not me.
I wasn't pointing anywhere in particular.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/12/2007 6:01:21 AM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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Tal Orion,

We would call it the grue of the sky, as Vietnamese does.
This may seem frivolous, but I assure you it is quite pertinent.
One starts with light and dark then progress to add other colors.
Old Norse blue included black, Japanese blue includes some greens.
The Western color scheme currently distinguishes just 11 primary colors.
Every language starts at light and dark, and its precision evolves from there.
But our perception of colours does not change over the course of this evolution.
Just our concepts of where these lines between different primary colors are drawn.

For your reference:
B. Berlin, P. Kay; "Basic Color Terms: Their Universality and Evolution"; 1969.

I hope the analogy and the implications are clear.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/12/2007 6:16:36 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6075
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
I have written of this before somewhere, it is my belief that the great social experiment we now live with is ruining our society.Man/men I see as becoming emaciated, they fall from what they are supposed to be, to become what is seen in the media as a bumbling joke.How many have witnessed TV advertisements and shows where the male is seen as an idiot?Conversly how many have seen a male character in a tv show to be pure male?

I know women who hark back to a time they could be a 'kept' woman, just be there for hearth and home, nothing more , just her man and his family, but they feel this is an impossible dream as so many women are expected to have careers and choices.

The old ways, ways thousands of years old worked, possibly it was'nt for some, but largely it worked.Perhaps those some, were like panther girls of the Gor novels.What is happening, or has become to happen I feel came into being in the twentieth century, along with the tv set, a social experiment, intended or otherwise, but I feel it is not working and may even be societies downfall and eventual break up, natural order prevented and there the nature of mankind.

But as in all things, nature will rebalance the equation in it's own time.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Aswad)
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RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/12/2007 12:52:35 PM   
Maahsatti


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Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
Greetings Aneirin,

  I do not know why, but your post made me think of a quote used in a movie, a movie I happen to love btw.

" The day may come when the courage of men will fail, but today is not that day."

Aragon: Lord of the Rings

I wish you well,
Maahsatti

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/12/2007 8:58:20 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
Tal Aswad,

Blue is one of my favorite colors, in all of it's hues. I am happy to read that someone else knows alot about it as well, and caught the fact that blue is blue, no matter the hue, but the eye can tell water from sky.

Live well,
Orion

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/13/2007 12:50:26 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
Greetings All,

  I want to thank everyone, for their input on this subject. I look forward to reading more, if others choose to participate. If not, I have enjoyed those who did.

I wish all well,
Maahsatti

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The Gorean Experiment - 12/13/2007 2:59:45 AM   
WickedPrince


Posts: 27
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
I have read the series wholely, in fact I have first editions of all but the very first of the books. Where I agree with Norman is that the idea of Man as a natural Dominant, and woman as a natural submissive fits +90% of human history and thus affects a great deal of our instincts and emotions. Where I disagree with his philosophy is in two things. First is that changing this dynamic is unnatural. The only rule that is absolutely natural is that THERE WILL BE CHANGE. Life which fails to change with the times, DIES. Perhaps it's in MAN'S best interests to see a change in the roles. Perhaps not just yet though. That decision is beyond my ability to judge.

Second is that a change in this sex-role dynamic is what's ruining our society. What's ruining our society is a culture that teaches us to care about nobody but ourselves. DON'T care about your spouse, if your marriage fails get a divorce and move on. DON'T care about your parents, if they get to too old to take care of themselves, put them in a nursing home. DON'T care about your neighbors, who the heck are they anyways? DON'T care about your co-workers, either you or they will probably move on to a new job soon. DON'T care about your kids, if they act up there are medicines for that. If you want to point at 990 thousand years of man as a cave-dweller where MEN dragged their choice of females back to the cave as proof of men's superiority over women, then how can you forget the impacts of the change in numerical social dynamics? In those ages "society" involved tribes of usually about twenty individuals, not MILLIONS, living in close consert.

In the days of the caves, every member of a tribe knew each other implicitely, and every member of a tribe was responsible for the survival of the tribe. Tribal individuals whose actions were detrimental to the tribe were not tolerated. Now-a-days - as a personal example - I live in an apartement building with perhaps 50 other individuals whome I know not at all. I may barely recognize the faces of some of them when I pass them in the hallways. Last year one of my neighbors was assaulted by her boyfriend (he had her on the ground and was jumping up and down on her) in the hallway outside my apartment and I was the only one who did anything about it by calling the cops despite the fact that the girls screams could be heard quite clearly through-out the building. I seriously doubt our distant ancestors would have sat by and ignored such an activity regardless of what reason the male may have claimed for his attempt to kill his female. Yet such activities are common-place in our new world. And it's not because men have forgotten to be Dominant and women have forgotten to be submissive. It's because WE have forgotten to be a community. It's because we have forgotten that being a human being means caring about more than "Number One."

I will follow that by saying that I do believe that there is still a place for the concept of "Male = Dominant, female = submissive" in our modern world. A man's purpose in life is to fiercely protect his woman and family, and I don't think that you can entirely expect him to show courage and fierceness in the face of lifes dangers for his loved ones and expect him to quell that entirely at home. I don't recognize this as a "Universal Truth" but as something that is the most common norm for Humans. I refuse to point the finger at Dominant women and claim all the ills of our society as their fault. But I do rejoice in being a Man, and hope that I will find a woman who will rejoice in being MINE.

One of the ideas that Norman ignored was that many tribes included a Wise Woman who understood things about life that MEN never could, and even the Tribal Chieftain would listen to her suggestions and accept her advice. Being a MAN who considers himself to have some little wisdom, I am willing to accept the advice of women when I think it valuable, and the one giving it has my respect. I wouldn't consider this to make me weak or submissive, however.

Norman recognized that sometimes Nature causes a change in "Natural Law" when it comes to the sexes. That sometimes women are born more Dominant, and men are born more submissive. In his view of how Nature intended this to be dealt with, the oddities were killed. Submissive men would be killed by the dominant men of their tribe as failures, dominant women would be killed because they would fail to submit. The problem with that idea is that it fails to take into account ACTUAL human history, where strong females sometimes ruled NATIONS, and did so with at least as much wisdom as any MAN could have. It fails to take into account that Nature is about change. And that change means that no "Natural Law" remains consistant for long. If  "Natural Law" insisted that nothing ever changed, then life on Earth - if there were any - would still be single-celled organisms swimming in the primordial soup. Life is about evolution, fail to evolve when it's needed, and die.

In short, what's destroying our society is a culture that trains us to be selfish. That trains us almost from birth to care only about "Number One." How can you expect humanity to survive as BILLIONS of "Number Ones?"

(in reply to Maahsatti)
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