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RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 3:35:04 PM

dsubmissiveman

Posts: 38
Joined: 4/21/2007
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quote:

are set, ask them, if they don't they fucking don't, legal/shmeagal. I have been to many boutique

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maya2001

quote:

ORIGINAL: dsubmissiveman

Ron(ne),

I would take the receipt as long as it meet the conditions set out above along with contact info the registered business owner, as most receipts include.

Although, why is it so hard for you to understand the concept that a registered business should be able to generate a receipt on request? I have been dealing with all kinds of legal business my whole life, and never had the difficulty of getting a receipt until now, which make me question the legitimacy of a business. Wouldn't you question a business that did not provide you with a receipt?

Hmmm ever tried getting a reciept from a doctor in Ontario for the fee they charge to write a sick note or for filling out claim forms?? some bill anywhere from $10 to a $100 for notes and forms, most will refuse any form of payment other than cash, they are professionals and definitely legal yet most will refuse to provide receipts.

Never had this experience myself. While doctors might only accept cash, they have no problem issuing a receipt. At least in my experience.

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Post #: 61

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 3:36:28 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
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I can understand the sensitivity of US pro-dommes, but the OP lives in Canada and readers are from Europe and UK, Canada, Australia and NZ and elsewhere. He is not asking for a receipt from a US pro-domme.

Legal brothels have public liability insurance. Legal brothels pay taxes. Legal brothels can give receipts. Legal sex workers are regularly tested for STDs. Legal brothels cannot be raided. Law abiding clients should stick to countries (and Clarke County - thank you!) where prostitution is legalised.

Whether the OP is "law abiding" is a separate question altogether!

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 12/20/2007 3:39:15 PM >

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Post #: 62

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 3:44:22 PM

dsubmissiveman

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Joined: 4/21/2007
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Um, whether he gets reimbursed or not is not my business. But he has also stated he is sliding them through on his employee reimbursement form, and plans to be rather dodgy and call it something else. Do I care? N O. But, for him to be worrying about whether they are paying taxes on what he is paying them, when HE is not paying taxes on what he is giving them, seems to be a bit of calling the kettle black.

JMO< your mileage may vary, I only planned to make one simple statement of my opinion on this , as it is pretty cut and dried, and there it is. I do not feel this is earthshattering material, I only wanted to point out that the two points of is 1) is professional domination legal and 2) are they paying their taxes have nothing to do with each other in premise.

edited to add: That was my point, even if a business is being run in a legal manner has nothing to do with whether they pay their taxes, as far as the legality of the services they offer.
[/quote]

kc692,

I clumped the two issues together:- the legality of the service and the income reporting, because I just wanted some clarification as to how the pro domme business operates with regards to the law.

I have admitted that my attempt to get these expenses reimbursed may be a little shady, but at the same time I am willing to take the risk as my employer has previously overlooked such expenses. This really is an issue between myself and my employer.

However, if a pro domme is not registered as a business and is inviting clients over for a donation and/or tribute, they are putting both themselves and their clients at risk. As a business establishment, many patrons assume that the business is legal but if it is not legal, the clients are left without much recourse should there be any issues.

With regards to my issue and my employer, if there were any problems at least there would be a mechanism to resolve disputes as my employer could easily track me and ask for clarification. However, if a client unknowingly visited a unlicensed business such a pro-domme, what legal recourses do they have to report any issues with the service?

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Post #: 63

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 3:56:31 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dsubmissiveman

why is it so hard for you to understand the concept that a registered business should be able to generate a receipt on request? I have been dealing with all kinds of legal business my whole life, and never had the difficulty of getting a receipt until now, which make me question the legitimacy of a business. Wouldn't you question a business that did not provide you with a receipt?

Because you are asking the wrong question. The issue isn't legality. The issue is not being harassed. No one's going to walk into a WalMart and shut it down for a day by fingerprinting the employees and putting them in jail just because it's a retail store.

Ms. Saskia's from Colorado. There's a case at the Supreme Court there about a city trying to shut down a fully licensed BDSM club. She and I have discussed that situation at length. I've donated to the club's legal defense fund, for Pete's sake. At least one of the people (and no I'm not saying who) who has responded to you on this very thread is a scene-aware attorney. You're not getting uninformed opinions here. People have good reason to be wary of the excesses of government even though they operate 100% within the law.

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Post #: 64

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 4:01:53 PM

dsubmissiveman

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RedMagic1,

What does issuing a receipt have to do with harassment? Maybe it might be a issue about the cultural/attitude difference towards sex work in the U.S.A vs Other Developed Nations, but I'm just speculating on that one. I'm still under the impression that if you are a registered business that has obtained licensing and you pay your taxes, you should be able to generate a receipt.

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Post #: 65

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 4:04:58 PM

Casseopia

Posts: 76
Joined: 11/27/2007
From: Monte Serreno, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Legal brothels have public liability insurance. Legal brothels pay taxes. Legal brothels can give receipts. Legal sex workers are regularly tested for STDs. Legal brothels cannot be raided. Law abiding clients should stick to countries (and Clarke County - thank you!) where prostitution is legalised.

Whether the OP is "law abiding" is a separate question altogether!

I just wanted to add here that its outside of clark county in the state of nevada, not inside, just so people dont come back and rag on anyone, other than that, thank you for trying to keep things on track.

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Post #: 66

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 4:14:23 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

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Thank you very much for clarifying for all readers. I am not a practising attorney in the US and it has always confused me which part of Nevada is legal!

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Post #: 67

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 4:15:45 PM

ChainsandFreedom

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Joined: 6/20/2007
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No, Springer's Mayorship ended because he bounced a couple of checks to prostitutes, not because of recipts

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Isn't that how Jerry Springer's political career ended?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockmeupplease

A receipt??? It might be legal, but I doubt it's tax-deductible!!

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Post #: 68

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 4:17:16 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dsubmissiveman

RedMagic1,

What does issuing a receipt have to do with harassment? Maybe it might be a issue about the cultural/attitude difference towards sex work in the U.S.A vs Other Developed Nations, but I'm just speculating on that one. I'm still under the impression that if you are a registered business that has obtained licensing and you pay your taxes, you should be able to generate a receipt.

I cannot speak to Canada. (Lady S, are you reading this thread?) But I'll talk about the US.

Where I live, and in most states, spanking someone with the bare hand over jeans is assault, and it is not legally possible to "consent to assault." That means that any Top engaging in impact play is in a very defensive situation if the bottom complains to the authorities.

What would the receipt say? I certainly enjoyed the suggestion, "Employee Training," but for real. It would provide a name, address, phone maybe, and a description of services rendered. Let's say the description is "Fantasy Fulfillment $300." Now let's say that a year from now someone gets elected who says that the already-existing laws say that anything provided under the codewords of "Fantasy Fulfilment" were illegal all along. There's a paper trail FOREVER that ties that provider with that description. Win or lose, she's got a fight on her hands that could bankrupt her. I don't see how that's worth a session with a few businessmen who don't give a crap about who she is as a person.

Why would someone want to open herself up for attack -- especially if she doesn't even know you?

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Post #: 69

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 4:22:14 PM

MsSaskia

Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dsubmissiveman

RedMagic1,

What does issuing a receipt have to do with harassment? Maybe it might be a issue about the cultural/attitude difference towards sex work in the U.S.A vs Other Developed Nations, but I'm just speculating on that one. I'm still under the impression that if you are a registered business that has obtained licensing and you pay your taxes, you should be able to generate a receipt.

The ability to generate a receipt is not defacto proof of anything but the ability to go to an office supply store and buy a book of receipt forms. Your possession of a receipt is not proof that any business has or has not paid tax on your, or any other, transaction. Your possession of a receipt is for your convenience only. The detriment of the business owner in a hostile climate for that business is that there is something either in that business owner's own writing or generated by their own equipment giving proof that a service the authorities don't like has been provided. No matter how trumped up a legal case brought by a city authority may be, even spurious documentation can make a very shaky case look more substantial.

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Post #: 70

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 4:22:51 PM

backseatbebe

Posts: 195
Joined: 4/12/2006
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wow
i cant believe what judgemental, angry answers have come from a simple question

who are any of you to say he wants to cheat his company?! do you work for them as well? how do you know its not ok, obviusaly hes not trying to hide where the receipt comes from so perhaps it is ok with the company, but that isnt your business anyways!!!
but on top of that all the name calling "liar", "deceptive", "dishonest"
to me i see this as a honest man, probably one of the few willing to give their information to a pro domme
unlike the men who hide this kinda stuff

you all turned this into a ethical debate
when really he asked a simple question if pro dommes are legal
and why they dont provide receipts

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Post #: 71

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 4:28:37 PM

MsSaskia

Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: backseatbebe
you all turned this into a ethical debate
when really he asked a simple question if pro dommes are legal
and why they dont provide receipts

He's asking about the legality of a business he's supporting, which means that he's questioning the business owner's ethics. He's supporting the business he's questioning, which directly relates to his own ethics. That's how it's an ethical debate.

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Post #: 72

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 4:39:48 PM

kc692

Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dsubmissiveman

Um, whether he gets reimbursed or not is not my business. But he has also stated he is sliding them through on his employee reimbursement form, and plans to be rather dodgy and call it something else. Do I care? N O. But, for him to be worrying about whether they are paying taxes on what he is paying them, when HE is not paying taxes on what he is giving them, seems to be a bit of calling the kettle black.

JMO< your mileage may vary, I only planned to make one simple statement of my opinion on this , as it is pretty cut and dried, and there it is. I do not feel this is earthshattering material, I only wanted to point out that the two points of is 1) is professional domination legal and 2) are they paying their taxes have nothing to do with each other in premise.

edited to add: That was my point, even if a business is being run in a legal manner has nothing to do with whether they pay their taxes, as far as the legality of the services they offer.

kc692,

I clumped the two issues together:- the legality of the service and the income reporting, because I just wanted some clarification as to how the pro domme business operates with regards to the law.

I have admitted that my attempt to get these expenses reimbursed may be a little shady, but at the same time I am willing to take the risk as my employer has previously overlooked such expenses. This really is an issue between myself and my employer.

However, if a pro domme is not registered as a business and is inviting clients over for a donation and/or tribute, they are putting both themselves and their clients at risk. As a business establishment, many patrons assume that the business is legal but if it is not legal, the clients are left without much recourse should there be any issues.

With regards to my issue and my employer, if there were any problems at least there would be a mechanism to resolve disputes as my employer could easily track me and ask for clarification. However, if a client unknowingly visited a unlicensed business such a pro-domme, what legal recourses do they have to report any issues with the service?

Who would you report an issue with a pro domme to? And what kind of issue would it be, being as she probably at least touched you, so that would leave a domestic abuse case wide open with your receipt if you were not happy with the level of service you received. Ding ding ding, I think we have your answer, especially if you told them you wanted a receipt so you would have recourse if you were unhappy with the service provided you. I doubt they post a "NO REFUNDS" sign at their door.

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Post #: 73

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 4:52:18 PM

dsubmissiveman

Posts: 38
Joined: 4/21/2007
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kc692,

I only used that reason as a potential reason as there are a myriad of other issues that can occur when one visits an establishment under the impression that it is a legal business, when in fact it is not. However, I would presume that the law would put a greater onus on the establishment to ensure that it operates legally rather than the client to find out if a business is legal.

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Post #: 74

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 5:10:11 PM

dsubmissiveman

Posts: 38
Joined: 4/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

quote:

ORIGINAL: backseatbebe
you all turned this into a ethical debate
when really he asked a simple question if pro dommes are legal
and why they dont provide receipts

He's asking about the legality of a business he's supporting, which means that he's questioning the business owner's ethics. He's supporting the business he's questioning, which directly relates to his own ethics. That's how it's an ethical debate.

MsSaskia,

I didn't know that a simple question could turn into a statement? If someone were to come up to me and ask me if my line of work were legal and on face value, I took it as an honest question, I would explain the merits of my line of work, its legal history and the regulatory orgnaizaions and their role.

I would not take offense to it, provided that I believed they were asking an honest question and were sincerely interested in obtaining more information.

By the response that I have received from the question, many did not think that I was genuinely asking the question to obtain further insight. It's pretty sad, given the fact that I have not anywhere in any of these posts made any value judgement about dommes nor the owners of domination establishments.

< Message edited by dsubmissiveman -- 12/20/2007 5:32:50 PM >

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RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 5:47:07 PM

MsSaskia

Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dsubmissiveman
MsSaskia,

I didn't know that a simple question could turn into a statement? If someone were to come up to me and ask me if my line of work were legal and on face value, I took it as an honest question, I would explain the merits of my line of work, its legal history and the regulatory orgnaizaions and their role.

I would not take offense to it, provided that I believed they were asking an honest question and were sincerely interested in obtaining more information.

By the response that I have received from the question, many did not think that I was genuinely asking the question to obtain further insight. It's pretty sad, given the fact that I have not anywhere in any of these posts made any value judgement about dommes nor the owners of domination establishments.

Asking if a business is legal is a simple question on a subject-verb-predicate level, but it is an extremely loaded one. I highly doubt that if you approached any random business owner and asked if they ran a legal business, calling into question their very legitimacy, they'd consider it a benign question.

If you were somehow unaware that the sex industry is different than other industries in the eyes of the law, I can see how you'd think your question should only be taken at face value. Since pro dommes in Canada can be prosecuted as easily and for the same reasons as those in the US, it seems unlikely that you'd be that ignorant of an industry you support.

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Post #: 76

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 5:51:29 PM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dsubmissiveman

Ron(ne),

I would take the receipt as long as it meet the conditions set out above along with contact info the registered business owner, as most receipts include.

Although, why is it so hard for you to understand the concept that a registered business should be able to generate a receipt on request? I have been dealing with all kinds of legal business my whole life, and never had the difficulty of getting a receipt until now, which make me question the legitimacy of a business. Wouldn't you question a business that did not provide you with a receipt?

Are you so seriously novice or naieve that you don't grasp the simple concept that the expectations from marching your canuck ass into a dungeon for an SM foray is slightly different than the expectations one could have, say, walking into your lawyer or your doctor's office? You can't honestly be that blind.

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Post #: 77

RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 5:53:26 PM

MisPandora

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SolangeRichards

I'm not a tax pro, but I have taken clients to strip joints and expensed the costs to the company. They were of course well aware of what was being done and in fact the only reason I was there with clients was because the company wanted it that way. These bills were later of course used for tax deductions by the company.

In the USA there is a strict criteria for the deduction of entertainment by the IRS. If you're able to meet that criteria, dinner, drinks and a visit to the local nudie bar are all deductable.

As for the legality of professional domination, the short answer is yes...in theory. Where trouble can be come however is in the area of striking another person. Outside of sanctioned things like boxing, martial arts and the like, anytime anyone strikes another person in the USA, whether mutually agreed upon or not, you are opening yourself to a potential problem. For the most part the police just avoid it all, but you cannot discount the fact that they don't have to. The same rules could apply to private play parties where no money whatsoever changes hands. I am aware of no locality in the USA where the laws on assault have any wording indicating that BDSM activities are exempt.

You can tell your client to dress like a six year old and squawk like a chicken, you can tell him to crawl around like a snake and kiss your shoes, you can tell him to do all kinds of things and if he agrees you are fine but anytime you smack a face or paddle a rump, under any circumstances, you can be at risk with the law.....

Blah blah blah -- he's in CANADA. Different rule book, people.

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RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 5:56:51 PM

MisPandora

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jackod

in las vegas is illegal,but just in clark county,jack

Guess again, Jack. You're speaking of SEX. You're not speaking of the various and sundry acts that might involve an SM session. The possession of handcuffs by a non-law enforcement individual in the state of Nevada is illegal, as is the act of assault (there is even a section in their state statutes that discusses consent not being a valid defense and that sport events like boxing) are exempt from the statute. You're not left with alot....

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RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 6:03:25 PM

SolangeRichards

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I thought the thread was of a general interest nature, and I was not under the impression it was a Canadian only thing.

I did however predicate my remarks with references to the USA...........

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Post #: 80