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RE: Frigid Freewoman


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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/9/2008 10:55:44 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

It is true that some women engage in offensive behavior because they know that they are unlikely to be physically challenged by a man to defend their assertions.


Due to what appears to be a condition in the general vincinity of the aspie/add/pdd spectrum ones, I have had some interesting problems because of this while growing up. My parents were quite reasonable people, and by far the most meritocratically minded that I have so far encountered (at least in terms of what they actually passed on). And inconsistencies always stuck out like a sore thumb for me; I didn't get why arbitrary cultural mores without substance to them were supposed to take precedence over cultural values or mores with substance to them. Consequently, when I was supposed to treat people based on their actions, rather than their gender, a notion I quite agreed with, that had an unintended side-effect: the females who believed their gender would shield them from those consequences that a male would encounter were quickly stripped of that notion. (Bear in mind that I've never been particularly inclined toward physical violence, so we're talking about situations where I would still consider it a reasonable response.)

Of course, that created quite a ruckus. Males who had assimilated only the freedoms associated with womens lib, and not the various bits about accountability, truly equitable treatment, etc., were not particularly pleased. My parents were clearly miffed about it, but saw what my reasoning was, and couldn't really find fault with it, despite wanting to. They did know my threshold is such that I don't usually raise a hand until the point where others would be done flattening the other party, so nothing serious came of any instances. Amusingly enough, the females in question seemed more intrigued than anything else, once the initial surprise wore off.

Minor hijack, but there it is. That particular tactic is one I have some distaste for.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/9/2008 11:49:48 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana

The few drugs that can cause date rape are not as freely available as the scare and hoax e-mails would lead you to believe. What is common though is fools who drink enough booze to float a ship and then act amazed when someone takes advantage of it.


Nor is it the ones they screen for, and particularly the well-known ones, that are best suited to doing the job in a reliable and predictable manner. For instance, many have been worried about Rohypnol (flunitrazepam), which was actually quite rarely used. What most don't know about it, is that if the dose is too low, there is no amnestic effect and no loosening of inhibitions that couldn't have been pulled off with a decent nachspiel, and if the dose is too high, it becomes a stimulant instead (verified in a laboratory setting; the tipping point without alcohol is about 4-5mg) and also causes a different kind of disinhibition (read: prone to violence, reduced sense of remorse, etc.). Exactly the kind of thing you'd want to avoid if you're going to take advantage of someone in such a way. There are other drugs, and combinations thereof, that will do the job reliably, and ensure compliance for as long as you want it, but most of those aren't screened for, and most people don't know which ones to use, or how to get them.

Personally, though, I fail to see the attraction.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Cherylmazana)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/10/2008 1:06:33 AM   
Cherylmazana


Posts: 1151
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		The trials I saw didn’t mention what drugs they tested for however they also tested for blood alcohol, in many cases these women were still drunk enough in the morning to have been arrested for driving, in some cases they were still over the limit that afternoon and the amount they remember drinking was enough to have rendered them unconscious by the experts, which doesn’t take into account the amount they don’t remember.

After all why drug a woman when she is kind enough to do it herself?

Cheryl

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/10/2008 9:50:32 AM   
Jahnaca


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Liz

Yes dress, attitudes etc all play a role, then again I see several assumptions being passed along here as part of the this discussion.

Flirting, what is it?  How do you define it?

I have been told since my teens I am a flirt.  Personally I never went out to actively “flirt” so I was confused over what it is guys were telling me.  During my first marriage I even went to extremes to be careful about my interactions with males so as not to appear to flirt.  Apparently I still was and to this day can’t figure out exactly how.  See there are different degrees of flirtation.  A lady batting her eye lashes behind a silk fan can be said to be flirting in a very lady like fashion.  The woman crawling all over a man in a sleazy fashion is also flirting.  So what degree are we actually talking about in this discussion.  Apparently many assumed the sleazy and forgot the other degrees thereof.  

Mini skirts the bane of free women.  Define mini?  Micro mini?  Above the ankle (to some that is mini in their eyes), above the knee (my mother personally feels showing knee cap is mini and obscene).  Mid thigh, is that mini?  Barely covering the rear, is that mini?  What about the rest of the attire?  Can we picture the power bee-with-an-itch dressed in a tailored $2000 dollar designer mini skirt and suit jacket then the down on your luck drug addict 2 dollar whore in a cheap gaudy mini (of same length)  on the street corner.  Do we see a difference?  

The statement “going out to drink/a bar.”  Does this by default mean the dirtiest dank scum of the earth dive in the city?  Can it be an upscale dance club/bar?  Sports bar filled with respectable business men?  You local town pub?  How about a simple piano bar?

Attitude does play a huge role in things.  How we perceive them and how we react to them.  Also how we present ourselves.  Certainly if your attitude automatically leads you down the scummy sleazy street your going to look at the concept in a light that well I even cringe at.  If though your attitude does not lead you to that place, you will have a different grasp of what is being said.

Yes even dressed to please and tease can be done in a dignified manner.  Going out for a few drinks and flirting can be to.  All these things (and more) need not be seen in only the sleazy way, your attitude will directly reflect presentation and much more.  Basically “things” alone are not right wrong or indifferent, unless you morally make it so.  If you do, what is the foundation of it?  In the case of Bab’s, I would view it the same as her to IF that is what I was thinking of.  I am not looking at the subject from her view point though and thus see a world of difference.

Jahna

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Mass-produced human beings are attractive only to those who expect to be their benevolent mass producers. John Norman

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/10/2008 10:19:36 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace
]One Man I know has said, "If Women ever grow up enough to work together on a large scale despite their differences of opinion, Male dominion is over."  Hmmm...maybe we should call it the "Free Woman's Cartel and Coup Association".   Regards- Grace


Just remember--at the end of the opera, Brunhilde throws the Ring of the Nibelung back into the Rhine, destroying herself and her kind.

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/10/2008 11:35:46 AM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace
]One Man I know has said, "If Women ever grow up enough to work together on a large scale despite their differences of opinion, Male dominion is over."  Hmmm...maybe we should call it the "Free Woman's Cartel and Coup Association".   Regards- Grace


Just remember--at the end of the opera, Brunhilde throws the Ring of the Nibelung back into the Rhine, destroying herself and her kind.

Tim


Indeed, Tim.
 
We humans are such a bizarre bunch of creatures.  All joking aside, I do believe women willing to work together rather than compete so much would precipitate a quantum leap for humanity.   Perhaps if women were "in charge" they would avoid some of the pitfalls that men have not.  It is equally probable that they would succomb to a few different ones, along with a few of the same ones. 
 
World domination isn't the slightest bit appealing to me. While the men I respect, and whose company and freindship I treasure foster a comfortable and cooperative spirit within me, many of men I meet cause me to understand why some women adopt Amazon mentality.
 
It can be, and has been, argued that natural order is male dominance and female deference to it.  That is far too simplistic, pat, and inadequate, to my mind.  In order for "natural order" to be defined in a manner which is applicable to all human beings, in all cultures, at all times, perhaps it would be better to describe it as as "each being true to self, and those inclined to pair finding the mate (or mates) which provide the complementary counterweight to produce balance, peace, and productivity".  When people are true to self and balance, when peace, and productivity are achieved, does it really matter whose on top, whose on first, and whose "in charge"?  Does it really matter what percentage of the time, in an optimally balanced society or relationship, either men or women would be "on top"?  I'd have to say that the balance was the important part, and the details of it distinctly secondary.
 
Regards-
Grace

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/10/2008 11:57:03 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		-fast reply-

hmmm........free women sure do like to go on about themselves..........

-twirls a pretty Turian collar around his left index finger-

Moo

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/10/2008 12:52:23 PM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		LOL  I know of at least three fundamental reasons why that is sometimes the case.  Can't help but wonder how many Men know what they are.
 
Regards-
Grace

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/12/2008 12:15:43 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana

After all why drug a woman when she is kind enough to do it herself?


That part always confused me a bit, as well.

Except as a kink, of course, and there are willing partners for that, too.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Cherylmazana)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Frigid Freewoman - 2/10/2008 4:23:12 PM   
MAWarGod


Posts: 174
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoundDown

I have read 7 of the Counter Earth series and have been coming across a concept I see jokingly referenced here occasionally.

That Free woman are sexually frigid, it is implied that unless a woman is enslaved she can never be sexually liberated nor respond in a lustfull manner. Is this coldness an integral part of being a Free women or just used as an illustration by Norman to point out the freedoms that can accompany slavery.

Also, are all the books written from the perspective of an Earth man or woman who is intergrated into this alien world?

Will Tarl Cabot or Christopher Marshall ever really evolve into Gorean men, or am I doomed to see them bumbling through this perfect world holding on to the morality of their boomed planet?

Any perspective, or suggestions for furture reading  would be greatly appreciated.

I think they mean Jason Marshall

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enjoying My permanent Vanilla cone!!

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Profile   Post #: 210
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