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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 3:06:36 PM

subtee

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Well, here in Iowa I do get cold...but never frigid...

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

That's my kinda girl right there... her mind went right to the handy dandy slutling passifer... I'm less than 100 hundred miles from you at the moment you starved little beast...

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

Huppie: I will have me an ice cold Frigid Freewoman Beer, please.

Lite with extra head, no?

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Don't believe everything you think...

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 3:55:04 PM

SeeksOnlyOne

Posts: 2012
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fast reply...

thanks to those who responded to my question.....i have to say i have never seen it cause rape and beating to go out and dance and flirt at a place you are well known at and/or surrounded by friends. i am sure it happens, as i saw a movie with jodie foster in it that was based on a true story, but should i ever get to the point i worry about that happening if i choose to go out and have a few drinks and dance the night away, i just wont leave my home.

i suppose if i decided to claim the Gorean label, i would go on being exactly who i am and, as in any group of folks and friends, it would either work or it wouldnt.

i dont like labels of any kind very much though, so thats not going to happen , but i suspect i could have fun around a group who were Gorean, as i wouldnt have to worry bout them saying one thing and meaning another, which is about the only thing that can turn me off quickly on some one.

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it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

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Post #: 162

RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 4:16:53 PM

Maahsatti

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you never stated the flirting was with a man that you knew.
Of course it does not apply to a man you know...(most times)
sometimes it can...most rapes and date rapes happen to women by men they know.

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

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Post #: 163

RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 4:40:20 PM

dawntreader

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

Huppie: I will have me an ice cold Frigid Freewoman Beer, please.

Lite with extra head, no?

And a complimentary pair of beer goggles

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

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Post #: 164

RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 4:54:25 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Greetings Maah,

I am not sure what clubs you have gone to, but the ones I have gone to, and worked at when I was younger, were not like this. Except for some really hard core dives, I caanot even think of a club that this would happen in.

Live well,
Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

Greetings Cheryl.

So glad to hear you love your husband, even while that is totally your busines.
You may think flirting with men in a bar is harmless and I hope you never have to find out differantly. maybe pubs over there are differant.
But over here, you do that, eventually you will end up raped and beaten if not worse...dead...and why?....because you felt behaving flirty and unchaste was amusing at the time.

I will say it again. FW have standards to hold up and live by, set forth within the Gorean Philos and Ethos....I have see extreme definate lines between behaving as a FW and (not)...Do what you will, say what you will...live as you will...in life..but do not call it Gorean, when it clearly is not.

Take care,
Maahsatti

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 4:59:07 PM

thornhappy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

Greetings Cheryl.

So glad to hear you love your husband, even while that is totally your busines.
You may think flirting with men in a bar is harmless and I hope you never have to find out differantly. maybe pubs over there are differant.
But over here, you do that, eventually you will end up raped and beaten if not worse...dead...and why?....because you felt behaving flirty and unchaste was amusing at the time.

I will say it again. FW have standards to hold up and live by, set forth within the Gorean Philos and Ethos....I have see extreme definate lines between behaving as a FW and (not)...Do what you will, say what you will...live as you will...in life..but do not call it Gorean, when it clearly is not.

Take care,
Maahsatti

Greetings Maahsatti--

I don't understand the conflation of flirting and unchaste behavior - is flirting unchaste in itself? Is it perhaps only for men to do?
V/r,
thornhappy

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Post #: 166

RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 7:54:36 PM

Musicmystery

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I picture an aged thread, eyes closed, barely able to breathe, lying motionless, kept alive only by the battery of life-support machines, silently praying over and over "Please. Please. Just let me die...."

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Post #: 167

RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 8:28:48 PM

dawntreader

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This calls for an appropriate dirge!

How about "Dirge" by Bob Dylan

I hate myself for lovin' you and the weakness that it showed
You were just a painted face on a trip down Suicide Road.
The stage was set, the lights went out all around the old hotel,
I hate myself for lovin' you and I'm glad the curtain fell.

I hate that foolish game we played and the need that was expressed
And the mercy that you showed to me, who ever would have guessed?
I went out on Lower Broadway and I felt that place within,
That hollow place where martyrs weep and angels play with sin.

Heard your songs of freedom and man forever stripped,
Acting out his folly while his back is being whipped.
Like a slave in orbit, he's beaten 'til he's tame,
All for a moment's glory and it's a dirty, rotten shame.

There are those who worship loneliness, I'm not one of them,
In this age of fiberglass I'm searching for a gem.
The crystal ball up on the wall hasn't shown me nothing yet,
I've paid the price of solitude, but at last I'm out of debt.

Can't recall a useful thing you ever did for me
'Cept pat me on the back one time when I was on my knees.
We stared into each other's eyes 'til one of us would break,
No use to apologize, what diff'rence would it make?

So sing your praise of progress and of the Doom Machine,
The naked truth is still taboo whenever it can be seen.
Lady Luck, who shines on me, will tell you where I'm at,
I hate myself for lovin' you, but I should get over that.

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

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Post #: 168

RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 8:40:23 PM

Maahsatti

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Hi there Orion,

Well, while it is true, that the bars I use to frequent would be considered, hard core and divish, as I use to hang with bikers and in my 20s I was a professional Dominatrix. It is a known fact that even moreso today in the nicest of clubs People slip drugs into a womans drink, date rape drugs, etc..it is known or should be I hope, that no one should ever leave their drink un attended, ever ever.
Women at an alarming rate are reporting, that they have gone out with friends even to these clubs and the next thing they know, they are waking up in places they have no clue of. some women have even ended up hospitalized and dead.
I am pretty surprised that these things seem surprising to you and others, specially this day and age when it is all over the news. Please, I suggest doing a search on the issue. I am confident you will find what I am saying to be true and alarmingly recent as well as frequent.
What I am trying to stress though is, our behaviors can be a trigger. Now in NO way am I saying , women bring this on themselves or that they ask for it...Far from it.
However, I totally agree with what dawntreader wrote and that was

quote:

In my opinion, we dress for the attention we wish to seek and the impression we wish to make~

simply,
j

I am not someone, sharing my opinion of a topic, without knowing a lil of what I am speaking of.
Things have happened to me in my younger life, I do not much care to talk about, specially in an open forum, my intent though is to stress a point.
Also as I have said before, many times even, on this very thread. That there are very clear lines between a FWs behavior and actions and those actions of not being a FW.
The books stress and support them as well do the men I associate with r/l.
I am not trying to insult anyone elses way of living. I am not, but what I am saying is, do not call it Gorean, when it is not.
I have learned much and have grown a lot, since incorporating Gorean standards and philosophies into my life. and I am not saying that everyone needs to live their life by my ideals and beliefs. women will live their life as best they can and in a way they feel suits them and by the way the men around them deems suitable.
I speak of only my views and standards and the standards of the Gorean men in my life and in the way we feel Gor standards apply.

Always, wishing you well and the best,
Maah

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 8:49:18 PM

Maahsatti

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Greetings,

The action of flirting is not unchaste in and of itself, but when it is accompanied with sparce dress and flaunting overly forward behaviors...is when it becomes unchaste.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a little flirtation, when it is mild and not smutty. I flirt as well, I feel it is in a womans nature to flirt a bit.
Like I said before. a FW lives life to the fullest, but we always know and mind our place no matter where we are and what we do in all places and all times.

Maybe I should record this....lol..or more appropriately for online..do one of those emote thingies, where I just click an icon and my words get repeated all over again, over and over and over and over....(laughs)

Maahsatti

< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 1/7/2008 8:50:05 PM >

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 8:52:24 PM

amelliagrace

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I picture an aged thread, eyes closed, barely able to breathe, lying motionless, kept alive only by the battery of life-support machines, silently praying over and over "Please. Please. Just let me die...."

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

This calls for an appropriate dirge!

I'm sorta partial to Forrest Lawn, as heard on the album An Evening With John Denver:

Forest Lawn
Oh, lay me down in Forest Lawn in a silver casket
With golden flowers over my head in a silver basket
The drum and bugle corp play taps while cannons roar
Sixteen liveried employees sell souvenirs from the funeral store

I wanna go simply when I go
They'll give me a simple funeral there I know
With the casket lined in fleece
And the fireworks spelling out "Rest in Peace"
So take me when I'm gone to Forest Lawn

Oh, lay me down in forest lawn they understand there
They have a heavenly choir in the military band there
Just put me in their care I'll find my comfort there
With sixteen planes in the last salute they'll drop a cross from a parachute

I wanna go simply when I go
They'll give me a simple funeral there I know
With a hundred strolling strings
And topless dancers with golden wings
Oh, take me when I'm gone to forest lawn

Oooh, come, come, come, come
Come to the church in the wild wood
Kindly leave a contribution in the pail
Be as simple and as trusting as a child would
And we'll sell you the church in the dale

To find a simple resting place is my desire
To lay me down with a smiling face comes a little bit higher
my likeness cast in brass will stand in plastic grass
While hidden weights and springs tip his hat to the mourners filing past

I wanna go simply when I go
They'll give me a simple funeral there I know
I'll lie beneath the sand
With piped-in tapes of Billy Graham
Oh, take me when I'm gone to forest lawn

Rock of ages cleft for me for a slightly higher fee
Oh, take me when I'm gone to Forest Lawn

*Wicked Evil Grin* It's been one of those days, and I'm in one of those moods. *Deep Breath* OK, I'll try to behave now.

PSA: Warning: Holding your breath while waiting for me to behave could result in injury or death.

Regards-
Grace

Edited to fix the mess made by my typist.

< Message edited by amelliagrace -- 1/7/2008 8:53:41 PM >

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 10:22:10 PM

Musicmystery

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...and the Golden Beetle creeps ever closer....

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/7/2008 11:57:48 PM

ygraine

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Plays TAPS
finis.
or is it?
Film at 11.

Y

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/8/2008 1:12:40 AM

Cherylmazana

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Ahh now I understand where you are at Maahsatti,

However tests done in the UK have shown that in 99% of the cases where a woman claimed date rape through drugs the simple truth was she drank so much she simply can’t remember what happened, and then drunk out of her mind the man took advantage of her agreeing to everything she said.

I used to work in bars and clubs on Union Street and every night we would find someone passed out in the toilets or glassed so I know about dangerous bars, but I also saw women laying in the gutter in pools of their own vomit, and men openly feeling up a drunken women who could barely stand, and then outside a steady procession of women flashing their bodies to the police.

Strippers whores and drunks I mixed with them all and not once did I ever hear of a woman being raped in the bar, and in 10 years only 2 were raped walking home alone at 3 am, most were simply too drunk to know what was happening and because of that allowed what she wouldn’t if sober getting much more than she bargained for including some nasty diseases but back then we just used to believe if they were that stupid and that drunk to go home with a stranger usually with her friends also going off with other strangers then she got what she asked for. Which these days is classed as rape, then it wasn’t but then again I don’t believe that when a man is having consensual sex and you ask him to stop mid stroke that if he doesn’t then that is rape either. If you believe that is rape then not one man is safe from a rape charge.

The God of fools and drunks often takes time off, probably so he can have a drink and complain about how foolish the fools are.

The few drugs that can cause date rape are not as freely available as the scare and hoax e-mails would lead you to believe. What is common though is fools who drink enough booze to float a ship and then act amazed when someone takes advantage of it.

Cheryl
(sorry no ending yet … oh the power in preventing the golden beetle from creeping closer lol)

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/8/2008 1:34:21 AM

Maahsatti

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quote:

but back then we just used to believe if they were that stupid and that drunk to go home with a stranger usually with her friends also going off with other strangers then she got what she asked for. Which these days is classed as rape, then it wasn’t but then again I don’t believe that when a man is having consensual sex and you ask him to stop mid stroke that if he doesn’t then that is rape either. If you believe that is rape then not one man is safe from a rape charge.

Cheryl, wow,
You actually feel, that if a woman ends up having too much to drink, that she (deserves) to be taken advantage of, by some derelict, jack ass with no scrupals or morals, in some damned alley way or something?...Or if a woman is, what we would call, (making out) with a man and decides, she does not want things to progress further, is asking for it? and deserves to be raped anyways?.

This is exactly the behaviors I expressed in an earlier post. That drinking reduces inhabitions and that a FW should not participate in.It can and will lead her into at the very least, a poor reputation and at the very worst, lead her into being harmed in some physical fashion.
But I do not feel that just because a woman ANY woman, makes an error in judgment, such as drinking too much, should be taken advantage of. or deserves to be.
You have proven my very point. Men will indeed, watch a womans behavior and mannor of dress and take full advantage of, when given the oportunity.
Now, not all men would. I feel men like Orion,Ty and quite a number more, I know would not act in such a despicable mannor , but lets face it. The number of men who are honorable these days are far and few between.

Maahsatti

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/8/2008 4:31:01 AM

Maahsatti

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quote:

The few drugs that can cause date rape are not as freely available as the scare and hoax e-mails would lead you to believe. What is common though is fools who drink enough booze to float a ship and then act amazed when someone takes advantage of it.

I find myself reading and rereading over this post of yours
and I must confess, every time I do, I find myself even more flabbergasted.
at the 30 to 50 yr old mentality of it, where there was a time that it was always the womans fault in these situations and the mentality that it must have been the womans own doing.
I as well, worked in a bar and seen all too many people over drinking and ending up passed out in unsavory locations.
Date rape drugs might be uncommon in England, but not in America and it has been a growing concern and behavior within our establishments.

While I totally agree that MOST of these tragic occurances that happen to women can be avoided...how?...by not putting themselves out there in those enviroments , behaving the way they do.
But in no way, does a woman deserve to be abused in such a way, just because they do. NO human being deserves to be treated like that.
This will be the last post I make to you concerning this issue and your post, unless you ask me a direct, reasonable question. I think it would easily become inflated otherwise...lol

I wish you well,
Maahsatti

PS, This issue with such drugs is not a hoax either, sadly, it is all too real and more common then you know

< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 1/8/2008 4:32:21 AM >

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/8/2008 5:19:23 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Greetings Maah,

I spent some time doing a little research on the internet, and have found while the claims are there, the evidence to support them is not. because of my colorful back ground, I am familiar with the drugs that someone would use as a date rape drug, and they are not as easily attainable as you seem to indicate. If you have found evidence to the contrary, please let me know.

Flirting and dressing a certain way, and being raped because pf it, and having someone slip something in your drink at a club are two different issues. While there has been occasion that someone spiked someone else's drink, it did not happen because they were being flirtatious, it happened because they were being follish and not paying attention to their drink with a stranger.

I have never frequented biker bars so cannot speak for them, but in non-biker bars and pubs, what you describe is extremely rare.

Live well,
Orion

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/8/2008 7:01:53 AM

camille65

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G'morning Everyone,This has been a most fascinating thread for me to read. There is much to think about and absorb, and yes there is some that I strongly disagree with.In particular the idea of a woman dressing in sexy garb being equal to a woman having loose or no morals and therefore placing herself in danger. I honestly find that absurd. It takes away the power of the individual IMO to hold that as truth.It means that men are so weak that they are turned by a short skirt and contemplate rape and or abuse.It means too that a woman wearing a short skirt or flirting (or even being friendly) is a negative tawdry thing to do. I see it as part of a womans power to use or not use. For me there is a huge difference between crossing my legs and smiling coyly at a man offering to buy me a drink and throwing all caution to the wind and inviting sexual congress. The main reason I am responding is that I feel some of this has gone beyond the concept of what a FW is by going into what is right/wrong for any strong woman who chooses her apparel based upon mood. Today I go to court for a forgotten (and first ever ever) parking ticket, I am wearing a grey suit and heels. I will dress appropriately despite knowing that many there will appear in jeans and baseball caps (which personally appalls me).Tonight when I go out I will be wearing a short above the knee dress and heels. I will still be dressed appropriately because my behaviour is appropriate.I see a difference between dress and behaviour. Thank you all for a most interesting topic to read. ~camille who is embarrassed to have forgotten to pay her one and only ticket in almost 20 years of driving!

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/8/2008 8:30:17 AM

Cherylmazana

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If a woman gets so drunk she can’t walk and falls unconscious in a gutter then yes she does deserve what happens to her. If however she does nothing wrong apart from flirt or dress “wrong” then it’s a different story. Your beliefs seem to be putting the two on the same level which in my eyes they are not.

In the same way if you drink and drive then expect to have an accident, and in my opinion be killed yourself for murder if you kill someone. You can’t just give the pathetic excuse I was too drunk to know what was happening, balls and double brass ones if a Gorean uses that type of excuse.

It’s this ridiculous idea that all men are out there ready to spike your drinks and rape all women that has caused the streets to become empty at night and therefore dangerous which is the saddest thing of all.

If you consent to sex then change your mind after penetration then you are a bitch and no man deserves to be hauled up before a judge on a rape charge for that.

If you take heroin believing you won’t get addicted you deserve the addiction. If you are forced to take it and become addicted you need help.

If you kill you deserve the death penalty. If you kill in self defence you should be applauded for getting a problem off the streets.

If you surf board where there are sharks expect to get mistaken for prey and bitten or killed.

I take responsibility for my actions I expect others to take responsibility for theirs.

Cheryl

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RE: Frigid Freewoman - 1/8/2008 8:34:55 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ygraine

Plays TAPS
finis.
or is it?
Film at 11.

Y

We may as well face reality and just re-name the thread what it's become and what it apparently will live on forever to be:

"Freewoman's Thread: support and girlie time"

_____________________________

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Post #: 180