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RE: FW Dialogue - 1/19/2008 5:46:22 PM   
ygraine


Posts: 674
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Liz,
Isn't that women of joy?
I am glad you brought this up, actually. I have never been comfortable with the Mistress thing myself, and I am not sure why.  I never really figured it out, but it makes me squirm a bit.
I don't correct people one way or the other if they are in a private conversation with me but I do expect them to behave within the protocol expected by men when in a group setting.  I guess that is just about as far as it goes with me.

Y

_____________________________

If you think something is too good to be true, it probably is.

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/19/2008 6:19:21 PM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1791
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		Hiya, Liz-
 
Like ygraine, hearing the title of "Misteress" spoken in my direction is uncomfortable.  Actually, speaking for myself, it is far worse than "uncomfortable".
 
Being from the south, the term "Ma'am" is generally used as a term of respect or courtesy, especially when dealing with female relatives, women older than yourself, or those in positions of authority.  If I'd ever refered to my Aunt Estella as anything other than "Aunt Estella" or "Ma'am", my shelf life would have expired on the spot.  Not addressing this one particular school marm as "ma'am" would have resulted in things that would make having yourself deleted from the hard drive of life seem to be the positive choice.  It is far, far, far from being a BDSM term.
 
Now that I'm in my 40's I tolerate "ma'am" from well intended people.  I expect it from younglings in general, demand it of my own, and feel the same with regard to anyone falling into the category of "my student or subordinate".
 
When submissives I know call me Ma'am, I grit my teeth and attempt to take it in the spirit in which it is intended.  No doubt I'd feel the same if I met slaves from this site at a gathering where the circumstances dictated the necessity of them calling me "Miz", or "Ma'am".  I honestly don't think I'd be able to cope well with "Mistress"...not in any context.  Where I to own a slave, or be the FC of a man owning slaves, I'd be forced to come up with some alternative, methinks.  Otherwise, I'd likely run screaming into the night.  Personal quirk. That quirk goes deep enough that once upon a time, when a wonderful Man's very sweet spouse affectionately introduced me to someone else as "the Man's mistress", only my deep affection for, and friendship with her kept me from gaggig, urping, or slapping her right on the spot. (Yes, another term was adopted, to the relief of all, lol.  One that fit the situation far better, imo.)
 
I have some ideas of why I feel the way I do about the terminology, but am also sure that I haven't dug out all of them yet.  Only a portion of it has to do with being a subbie type personality.  Ah, life!  Such a grand adventure of exploration, both inside and out!
 
Regards-
Grace


(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/19/2008 8:12:08 PM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1791
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		FR-

Point of clarification, for what it is worth:
When people I genuinely like, such as Smilez, call me "Miz", I feel fairly comfortable.  Go figure.  I suppose that stems from my belief that attitude may not be everything, but it is much.  Thus my feelings about "the spirit in which things are intended."
 
Regards-
Grace

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/19/2008 9:06:45 PM   
Jahnaca


Posts: 708
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings ladies

Personally I hate the mistress thing, but that is only my quirk.  I do though expect it out of those who claim to be, or present themselves as slaves in a Gorean setting.  Not for myself but rather because it is expected behavior.  For those same women whom I have gotten to know on a more personal level and whom I would know their owners would approve I sincerely don't mind them calling me Jahna just not in public where fault would be found by some.  It's not worth the effort to defend or the grief involved.

Outside of any Gorean venue, I hate Ms...I am Mrs if you please.  Oh and I am not sir and yes, I am called that to lol. 

Jahna

_____________________________

Mass-produced human beings are attractive only to those who expect to be their benevolent mass producers. John Norman

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/20/2008 7:03:20 AM   
Terrah


Posts: 304
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		Tal Ladies!

Well I have thought on this for years now. I like Mistress. Ma'am has never set well with me ever. Mistress as a title is appropriate as that is what I am, not because of the books so much, as to me it's a state of mind in a way. I certainly think of it as respectful way to address me to those others who are more submissive than myself. I don't think it elevates my ego or makes me feel anything other than what I am, but it's definitely about respect to me personally.

And the Ms Liz thingy lol .. I would rather be called Lady Arlie.. but there ya go. But then what's in a name exactly? You just are not allowed to call me late for dinner.

I wish ya'll well

Terrah

PS update on the mare, she's still at the vet's. She is still innodated with the squirts, but she is eating and drinking, I dunno this is not good again, but we'll see. I am visiting her today after church. I'll talk to the vet tomorrow.


_____________________________

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyhow." (John Wayne)

(in reply to Jahnaca)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/20/2008 7:25:46 AM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1059
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		When do you, if you do, call yourself Mistress, and when do you, if you do, expect to be called that by slaves/subs?   And do you correct them if they don't

I dont call myself Mistress ever.. reminds me to much of a kept woman.. I prefer to be called Ma'am or Mz.. if I am called Mistress like.. Yes Mistress  or thank you Mistress.. I just smile.. if its someone I know I politely just say.. thank you .. just call me (insert given name)... If I know thats there protocal I respect it.. and keep the squiqqy's to myself.  Someone owned by me calls me Ms Ma'am or Madame.. never Mistress.. bleck cant deal with it

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/20/2008 7:46:21 AM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1791
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terrah

Tal Ladies!

Well I have thought on this for years now. I like Mistress. Ma'am has never set well with me ever.
I'm always fascinated by the drastically different reactions people have to the same words, ideas, or events.

quote:

Mistress as a title is appropriate as that is what I am, not because of the books so much, as to me it's a state of mind in a way. I certainly think of it as respectful way to address me to those others who are more submissive than myself. I don't think it elevates my ego or makes me feel anything other than what I am, but it's definitely about respect to me personally.
What it is in particular about the word itself that causes you to identify so strongly with it, Terrah?  How do you define the word?  Any idea why you view it so differently from "Ma'am", or even "Madam"?

quote:

And the Ms Liz thingy lol .. I would rather be called Lady Arlie.. but there ya go. But then what's in a name exactly? You just are not allowed to call me late for dinner.
  "Lady Grace" I could probably deal with, with little to no squickage.
 
Regards-
Grace

(in reply to Terrah)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/20/2008 9:00:15 AM   
ygraine


Posts: 674
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline 		hi Grace,
squickage? LMAO! can I use that later?
Y

_____________________________

If you think something is too good to be true, it probably is.

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/20/2008 9:01:57 AM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1791
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ygraine

hi Grace,
squickage? LMAO! can I use that later?
Y


Go for it, y.
 
G

(in reply to ygraine)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/20/2008 10:32:43 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace

"Lady Grace" I could probably deal with, with little to no squickage.
 
Regards-
Grace


And you look like a "Lady Grace"  i think it is perfect for you!
i have been called the Lady j by 2 Dominant friends of mine but other than that i am just j or jen.

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/20/2008 3:08:27 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1059
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry Lady .. reminds too much of "Hey Lady ..blank whatever.. " I am not a Lady of the Castle..nor do I hold a sword in a lake.. I don't wear medieval dress and nor speak in thees and thous. It has always seemed pretentious to me and prehaps that because the first Lady SO and So I ever met irked me beyond belief. 

SD 

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to dawntreader)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/20/2008 3:14:48 PM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1791
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sylverdawn

Sorry Lady .. reminds too much of "Hey Lady ..blank whatever.. " I am not a Lady of the Castle..nor do I hold a sword in a lake.. I don't wear medieval dress and nor speak in thees and thous.


LOL, well, that makes two of us, SD.


quote:

It has always seemed pretentious to me and prehaps that because the first Lady SO and So I ever met irked me beyond belief. 

SD 
Funny, isn't it, how such things come about.  Oddly, I find "Mistress" to be a bit more pretentious.  Then again, that is part of the beauty of life.  There is so much variety; so many different tastes, opinions, and reactions with regard to the same things.
 
Gotta love it -
Grace

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/21/2008 6:39:15 AM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1059
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sylverdawn

Sorry Lady .. reminds too much of "Hey Lady ..blank whatever.. " I am not a Lady of the Castle..nor do I hold a sword in a lake.. I don't wear medieval dress and nor speak in thees and thous.


LOL, well, that makes two of us, SD.


quote:

It has always seemed pretentious to me and prehaps that because the first Lady SO and So I ever met irked me beyond belief. 

SD 
Funny, isn't it, how such things come about.  Oddly, I find "Mistress" to be a bit more pretentious.  Then again, that is part of the beauty of life.  There is so much variety; so many different tastes, opinions, and reactions with regard to the same things.
 
Gotta love it -
Grace


True Enough.  I would take Mistress before Lady any day of week.. Mistress is just mildly annoying while for me being called Lady will get a not only a "No thank you"
but a " I dont care what your protocols are dont call me that"
 
Not that I am sure there are people who take SCA to a bdsm level...laughing..but it possible Im sure given what I have seen over the last 12 years anything is.
 
Winks.. peace be with you
SD

< Message edited by Sylverdawn -- 1/21/2008 6:40:01 AM >

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/21/2008 11:20:01 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2543
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Liz,

  I guess I am a bit old school, because I feel slaves and subs, should address the Free as either Mistress or FW and all men be addressed as Master, of course.

I am not BDSM, I am Gorean at all times, not just when the comp is on, or only when I am around other Goreans. I feel addressing us with title is a show of respect and only proper.
When I meet someone outside of the computer...I do not go around introducing myself as Mistress or FW of course, but if by chance, I meet someone who is a sub/slave, then I would have them address me appropriately.
I do not use Mistress or FW in my ID, simply because, it's foolish I think. I do not need to provide such a title overall, I find it borish...lol...Once a sub/slave realizes I am a Free, then and only then, do I feel it appropriate, they use my title.

Take care,
Babs

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/21/2008 6:03:55 PM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1791
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		FR-
 
The current discussion of titles, appelations, and terms of courtesy got me to wondering something.  Within Gorean households, at what age to you believe your male progeny should begin to be called "Master"?  Do any of those of you with adult male offstpring refer to them as "Master"?  Same questions with regard to calling your free female progeny "Mistress".
 
Regards-
Grace

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/21/2008 6:37:21 PM   
Terrah


Posts: 304
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		Tal Grace,

quote:

What it is in particular about the word itself that causes you to identify so strongly with it, Terrah?  How do you define the word?  Any idea why you view it so differently from "Ma'am", or even "Madam"?


Well Mistress to me has always been associated with a strong dominant female, even since I was little. I guess originally I got it from a tv show maybe or something I read. But to me I associate it with a very dominant woman, it's a title for me not because of the books, I had thought about this and can't remember my first experience with it, but then again I have a terrible memory.

OH yeah.. Ma'am to me is not respectful for two reasons. First it is a sub word of Madam, slang if you wish to call it that, and to me that is disrespectful from the git go. Second Ma'am reminds me of a old lady, now hold on ladies.. I am an old woman too.. but it's bugged me from the first time someone said it to me when I was like in my twenties. I still recall it and immediately corrected the woman who said it, I am not a ma'am, not old enough. I don't know if I will ever be old enough in fact.

Now Madam has two seperate meanings to me.. first one being a married woman, secondly a hooker.. Madam of the night? So I dislike that one as well.
quote:

"Lady Grace" I could probably deal with, with little to no squickage.


LOL oh.. the ol squickage.. I see..  Now with Lady I do not associate with the English standard or SCA or anything like that. I associate Lady actually with the Turians. I sure do love those guys who have been around here for even longer than I. I like Lady because it is classy to me, it refers to me being a woman and proper, with status in life, and I view Mistress as the same.

Hoped  that helped ya out a bit.

PS I saw my mare yesterday, she's doing a bit better now her poop is solid again which is a very good thing. Her breathing is not good however, she is breathing much too slowly, but is taking in big deep breaths unlike her short painfilled breaths she was having. She is still very sick and has lost at least 75 to 100 lbs, her hips are showing, and her ribs. I understand the loss but also pray she eats and doesn't lose any more. She is still pregnant but the vet cannot go in to see if it is still living or not, we assume so, or nature would abort it. It broke my heart to see her in such a state, but at the same time she did perk when I came in and called her name, she even hugged me. We had a nice talk and I left her not wanting to, but had to go promising her there were many wonderful people out there hoping she would recover soon. I do again thank you for your prayers and thoughts for her.

I wish you well,

Terrah



_____________________________

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyhow." (John Wayne)

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/21/2008 8:48:29 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2543
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Grace,

  I bring up my Um's by the morals and standards of the Gorean philosophies, along with Christian one's.
When they become of legal age, they will then decide how they would like to be addressed. I can not predict or speak for what they will choose to incorporate into their lives.What I can do however, is to bring them up with the clearest and most honest values I believe to be healthy and right.

Take care,
Babs

PS. When a slave is in my home, they will be instructed to address my Ums as Master(insert name)....but it would be more like how a nanny would address them...or when they recieve a formal letter...see what I mean?

< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 1/21/2008 8:50:56 PM >

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/21/2008 9:18:33 PM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1791
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

Hi Grace,

I bring up my Um's by the morals and standards of the Gorean philosophies, along with Christian one's.
When they become of legal age, they will then decide how they would like to be addressed. I can not predict or speak for what they will choose to incorporate into their lives.What I can do however, is to bring them up with the clearest and most honest values I believe to be healthy and right.

Take care,
Babs


The entire passage above makes perfect sense to me, and I feel essentially the same way about my own.  The highlighted passage, for me, explains much of why some of us elect to be called one thing and not another.  I can certainly respect another individuals personal preferences, with or without understanding their origins, but understanding them is helpful, imo, when it comes to building community relationships, long term interactions, and understanding of others.


quote:


PS. When a slave is in my home, they will be instructed to address my Ums as Master(insert name)....but it would be more like how a nanny would address them...or when they recieve a formal letter...see what I mean?


Certainly, I can see what you mean there.
 
Regards-
Grace

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/21/2008 9:27:33 PM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1791
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terrah

OH yeah.. Ma'am to me is not respectful for two reasons. First it is a sub word of Madam, slang if you wish to call it that, and to me that is disrespectful from the git go.
In actuality, Terrah, there is considerable disagreement about whether or not Ma'am is actually a deriviative of Madam or not.  Perhaps one of the folks around here who knows more about linguistics than I do can give some historical insight there.  Further, in the part of the world I grew up in, it is considered extremely respectful, whereas "Madam"  tends to be associated with hookers or "career women" (aka, 'feminists" - yeah, I know, doesn't make a lot of sense to me, that one, but never the less)

quote:

Second Ma'am reminds me of a old lady, now hold on ladies.. I am an old woman too.. but it's bugged me from the first time someone said it to me when I was like in my twenties. I still recall it and immediately corrected the woman who said it, I am not a ma'am, not old enough. I don't know if I will ever be old enough in fact.
   LOLOLOL - I've felt that way myself a few thousand times.  Yet, time marches on.  Unfortunately, it tends to, as a friend once said, "march across the face, leaving hoof prints, boot skuffs, and tank ruts".
quote:


PS I saw my mare yesterday, she's doing a bit better now her poop is solid again which is a very good thing. Her breathing is not good however, she is breathing much too slowly, but is taking in big deep breaths unlike her short painfilled breaths she was having. She is still very sick and has lost at least 75 to 100 lbs, her hips are showing, and her ribs. I understand the loss but also pray she eats and doesn't lose any more. She is still pregnant but the vet cannot go in to see if it is still living or not, we assume so, or nature would abort it. It broke my heart to see her in such a state, but at the same time she did perk when I came in and called her name, she even hugged me. We had a nice talk and I left her not wanting to, but had to go promising her there were many wonderful people out there hoping she would recover soon. I do again thank you for your prayers and thoughts for her.

I wish you well,

Terrah


She is indeed still in my prayers.  Thanks for the update!
 
Regards-
Grace

(in reply to Terrah)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/22/2008 12:53:27 AM   
Cherylmazana


Posts: 806
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		If I am associating with Gorean slaves I expect to be called Mistress Cheryl, if they do not then I will ignore them as not worth my time. That goes for IM and face to face, in forums they just show themselves up.

If a man wishes to address me as Lady then I have no problem with that either, it’s a sign of respect in the same way I might call him Sir, though in I would prefer my Christian name to be used by preference and its rare I would call a man Sir myself, cultural differences and I am not into BDSM.

I do not understand why so many are uncomfortable with the idea of being called Mistress at all, if you wish to be a Gorean free woman that is what you are to the slaves after all.

Like Maahsatti I do not introduce myself as Mistress as that seems too much BDSM and Dominatrix but I expect a slave to cotton on pretty quick.

Cheryl

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 60
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