amelliagrace
Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
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General Musings:
Ah, Men!
As far back as I can remember (and that is a frighteningly looooooooong interval these days) my best friends, and easiest friendships, have been mostly with......men. In point of fact, until I met some Gorean women, there have only been a few women I've enjoyed being around - well, for more than 20 minutes or so.
I find myriad things to adore about men - and plenty of things that drive me nuts. They are about as perfect as women are, sad to say. I suppose it is just that I find gender related irritations with men to be less annoying than those I see among women.
Kim said, 'I don’t understand the choices of some women. It seems we selected this sort of man from the Stone Age to now so why is his masculine presentation suddenly grating on our nerves? Do we expect men to have the perspectives women have? Do we expect them to try to present their ideas in the manner women do? Are we not being hypocritical to suddenly desire that they behave differently, when that is not the behavior women have selected for over the eons? "
I think I understand the general sentiment there...but. It seems to me the nature of women is to be generally more inclusionary and group oriented than men. This is something that drives me nuts with regard to my fellow females. The compulsion to flock to the restroom in a gaggle like a bunch of geese exhibited by so many of my sex is......AARRRGGGGGGGH. Put a bunch of them in a group and they will miss both dinner and the movie debating the options and seeking complete consensus unless one of them decides to go Domme. It doesn't seem to be enough to have a majority preference...noooooooooooo, that would be toooooooooo easy...we want unanimity, especially with friends and family. Yes, I know this is a general statement, and that there are exceptions. Still, every woman I've ever discussed this with has agreed there was truth to it. Whatch a group of little girls playing sometime. Watch how the strive to get on the same page, have everyone happy, and be in agreement. See how they fight if they can not readily find an "everyone is happy about it" arrangement. And so, that brings us to Men. Women tend to seek consensus. It is important to us. And it is only natural that we seek consensus with men we consider worthy of our time. What we fail at on a regular basis, IMO, and myself included, is losing sight of the reality that because men do think a bit differently, and have a differing perspective, we will get consensus part of the time, complimentary views which serve to reveal each other's blind spots part of the time, and outright disagreement the rest of the time. IMO, men are far better at Agree to Disagree without holding counterproductive grudges than women are.
There are many of those traits in men that other women have contributed to the selection of over time that I find attractive, important, or necessary. In my closest relationships with men, I also look for some traits that were not necessarily selected for over eons, by other women. No, I do not believe that makes me a hypocrit. Now, If I had been the one doing the selection for eons, and suddenly changed my mind about what I desired to see in men, then I'd be a hypocrit. I'm no more responsible for my great great great great great granny's preferences in men than I am responsible for the actions of a plantation and slave owner of two centuries ago, or those of my own great grandchildren, when their day arrives.
I strongly agree with you, Kim, on, "Why toss up our hands & walk away, abandoning what’s clearly a successful social strategy because we can’t separate the idea from the it’s delivery? " Seperating the idea from the delivery, in order to properly address it, is important. There is still wisdom, however, in that gem from The Art of War, regarding losing the battle in order to win the war. There are times when a single instance isn't worth bothering with. But if you stand there long enough, eventually a really good oportunity comes, and a teachable moment can be had - on both sides of the discussion. Sometimes it isn't what you say, but how you say it. At others, it isn't what you say or how you present it, so much as it is when you say it.
In most cases, I don't consider it adviseable to completely write of an individual for one or even more offenses, or points of disagreement. I tend to feel that way about groups of people as well. I've learned over time that not doing so can be of benefit to me...and this I learned primarily from men. That there are exceptions to that, I've learned mostly from women.
I've been called "tenacious" more than once, by polite individuals...."stubborn assed bitch" from the less courteous. There are times when I wondered if it was actaully more a virtue, or more an unproductive resolve to not accept what others degreed, "is just the way it is." On rare occaisions, I've looked at something and decided that it really wasn't worth the energy expenditure. There has been critisism from others regarding my tenacity, as well as my lack of, in various situations. On that one, I don't ever expect to see consensus *grin*.
Where were we? Oh, yes...Men. In observing the interactions of men and women, I find that my most consistant source of extreme irk, is when I see an attitude of "that's the way they all are, they aren't capable of seeing or doing differently." or the equally arrogant and meritless, "well darlin', if you were a man/woman you'd know better." I have to guard against this within myself, and I'll own it. Frankly, if neither men or women are capable of seeing and doing differently, as a result of receiving information, observation, growing as individuals, or a desire to be the best they can be, it is by individual or collective choice. I look for the ones who can, and do, and will.
In a community such as this discussion board, my continued participation hinges on one quesiton, 'Is it worth it?' Is it worth the time? The aggravation? The dealing with both those admired and those disdained? Somewhere between the third and tenth day that it isn't, it is time to move on. Others draw their own lines in different places than I do. What they gain and lose by that is on them.
Grace
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