RE: FW Dialog

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RE: FW Dialog

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RE: FW Dialog - 6/3/2009 9:07:10 AM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

Morning Cheryl,

You wrote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana

The title thing is an interesting subject it is one of the easiest ways to see what a slave and often their owner is like.

For myself I expect to be called Mistress by any slave who calls themselves a Gorean slave, owned or not. If they don’t then I look to see if the reason is themselves or their owner more often than not with an owned slave its their owner, and with an un-owned slave its usually because they want the trappings of being a Gorean slave without the mental changes that make a slave.

I won’t be rude or demand to be called Mistress, I don’t see the point of lowering myself to their level and in all honesty we do not live on Gor and I am not a petulant free woman with a knife to cut off the ears of any slave that displeases me.

But I often wonder why they are so insecure as to refuse to use a title that simply shows they have accepted who and what they wish to be, maybe because in their hearts they haven’t?

Cheryl

I would simply respond that in many cases, there have been women that jump back and forth from both sides of the kneel, and therefore it sometimes makes it confusing for folks (especially new ones) to judge who is a free woman. I tend to lean towards the side of a slave should error on the side of caution and refer to any new woman as Mistress, as it is better to be corrected about the status of a person than to attempt to make a judgement; but that is just me and my opinion.

We then come to the issue of those "free" womem that aren't really free, they are just slaves puffing themselves up on a soapbox, and looking for a bit of attention... enough said.

I wish you well,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Cherylmazana)

Post #: 1321

RE: FW Dialog - 6/3/2009 12:49:03 PM

Maahsatti

Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

We then come to the issue of those "free" womem that aren't really free, they are just slaves puffing themselves up on a soapbox, and looking for a bit of attention... enough said.

Hiya O Handsome Thadius,
I like to affectionately refer to them as ...*slaves in robes*...lol a very old term, but very fitting.
Unfortunately, they exist and there is not thing one any one can do about it, save to recognize them and treat them accordingly IMO.

Much care,
Babs

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 1322

RE: FW Dialog - 6/4/2009 2:41:47 AM

Maahsatti

Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I think the difference today is, especially in Collar Me, is the influx of soooo many other beliefs. When a girl's Master has instructed NOT to call anyone Master/Mistress, who am I to go against a girl's owner?

Hello Liz,
No, neither would I seek to go against a slaves Owner and his instructions and I agree, a slaves actions reflect more on her Owner and IMO when a slaves owner openly practices and condones behaviors that could be easily taken offensive to some Free, such as instructing his slave to blatently disreguard how to properly address a Free, Even if that Owner does it because he dislikes that Free or feels they do not deserve the title or position of being Free ( and this is just for an instance, 1 out of many many other distasteful behaviors)To me speaks volumes to the character, honor and integrity of that owner.

I also respect other cultures and beliefs and when dealing with a BDSM submissive I politely ask they not address me as Ma'am and ask they address me as FW, since I understand many BDSM Dom/Dommes prefer to not be addressed as Master or Mistress and in turn do not allow their collared to address others as such either.

A great deal of time, my prefered request is met with respect and it is agreed upon.
Sadly there are also a lot of times (an increasing amount of times these days) I am met with an angered, huffy attitude in which I get confused over because it seems those particular people get so completely angry so very suddenly before I even get a chance to respond, that has always had me scratching my head. However...as you well know, once I recover from that confused stun...I return that persons attitude in kind....grinz...only most times it is in 10 fold.

Now, I am not saying I am any kind of angel...I have dealt out my share of unreasonable attitude over the years but IMO, generally we as intelligent creatures tend to learn and grow as we experience life and that is why I get so frustraited and all fired up to see the decline things have taken over the yrs and how not only has things declined but how it seems to be accepted as per the norm.

Anyways, these are just my thoughts and feelings on the subject of Respect/manners.
Indeed Respect *must* be earned however when one strives to always use manners I can not help but feel that is a part of earning respect...it is a start anyways.

Take care,
Babs

< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 6/4/2009 2:44:29 AM >

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)

Post #: 1323

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/5/2009 8:02:20 PM

MissDominae

Posts: 94
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

Thank you to Elizabeth Anne for her kindness in steering me to this forum. I hope to learn much, grow more and make friends amongst people of like mind.

My respects to you all ....... Dominae (Olivia)

_____________________________

***~ Success can not be measured in the respect gained from others, only by the respect that, with complete self honesty and freed of ego or delusion, we are able to give ourselves.~***

(in reply to Mitzie)

Post #: 1324

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/6/2009 7:27:16 AM

amelliagrace

Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline

Nice to "meet" you, Olivia. Feel free to cmail me for any reason.

Gracie

(in reply to MissDominae)

Post #: 1325

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/6/2009 9:23:57 AM

ElizabethAnne

Posts: 1710
Status: offline

Hello Olivia!

And welcome, I'm umm...thinking that not many people call me "kind", or even think I'm capable of many "kind" acts. ~heh~

However, I'm glad you found this thread, where of course any and many other than free women post, yet still, many of the topics here are things that are primarily of interest to free women. We all tend to be courteous of each other and each other's opinions, though, you will find for as many different women here that post...just about that many different opinions. And being as we are Gorean free women, we pretty much speak our minds. No one ever accuses of being backwards or shy.

So welcome aboard, glad to make your aquaintance.

Take care,

Elizabeth

(in reply to MissDominae)

Post #: 1326

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/6/2009 12:31:38 PM

Maahsatti

Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline

Greetings Olivia,

Welcome to FW Dialogue
I am sure you will enjoy many of the topics and responses here, as well, make a few friends along the way.

Take care,
Maahsatti

< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 6/6/2009 12:32:20 PM >

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to MissDominae)

Post #: 1327

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/6/2009 1:44:57 PM

MissDominae

Posts: 94
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

Thank you Maahsatti, Grace and Elizabeth Anne,
rest assured I will always speak my mind. What I hope to learn from the Gorean path and the Free Women is how to do so always with Honour. I have set myself to grow and learn. This does not mean that I will blindly accept the views of others but that I will be willing to consider all views and take from them what I find useful in my own growth. As I imagine all here would feel something similar I daresay that some discussions would be - to say the least - robust and spirited. I don't mind that in the least; I will never shy from a robust debate conducted with respect and in the spirit of growth.

I will enjoy making friends here. The best friend I wish to make though is myself; it is time I came to know myself intimately, to know the why of me as well as the who and what, to control my path and my journey and not wander without focus.

Yes, I DO set myself big challenges, don't I?

It's about time I did. I've spent my life in cruise control and I don't want my life to be that way anymore. I wish to be worthy of respect and to be so I must first respect myself. The Gorean path may or may not prove to not be the most suitable way for me to do this but it is A way, and one I now wish to explore in depth and in sincerity.

Your company along the journey will be much appreciated.

_____________________________

***~ Success can not be measured in the respect gained from others, only by the respect that, with complete self honesty and freed of ego or delusion, we are able to give ourselves.~***

(in reply to Maahsatti)

Post #: 1328

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/6/2009 2:27:52 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7182
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Greetings Olivia,

Welcome to the Gorean section. As Liz pointed out, not just Free Women post on this topic. I am very opinionated, and not afraid to share. I am a generous fellow like that ;). During your discovery of Gor and yourself, there is a Gorean saying "Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought. " It is from Marauders of Gor but not sure of the page number. Some of the more well read may know the page number. Yes going through life in cruise control method can lead to complacency before we know it. Some say that those that live as Goreans have too lofty a goal to be realistic, and to that there is another Gorean saying "Let those who can climb mountains climb them; let those who cannot climb them console themselves with denying their existence."

Live well,
Orion

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.

(in reply to MissDominae)

Post #: 1329

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/6/2009 4:20:09 PM

MissDominae

Posts: 94
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

Thank you Orion,
I appreciate the wisdom shared.   I wonder if this is a real mountain I have set myself to climb or only seems that way right now because I have been conditioned to doubt my own capabilities.   What I am beginning to see is that it can be both at once; real, and yet not the same as I have in the past perceived it to be. So it is with myself and Gor; it is not as I have understood in the past simply because, in the past, I have not truly understood. I am working to rememdy that now.

Marauders of Gor is one of the books I have coming. If the rest of its wisdom is as fundamental as that which you have quoted, I will have an opportunity to learn much.   I'm looking forward to that opportunity and the growth it will bring.   I want no truth, no honour and no respect I do not earn and deserve and I will be putting in the effort and hard yards to possess that to which I prove entitled.

I have so much to learn and to unlearn.   I have to accept - as contradictory as this might sound - that I am not as good as I think yet greater than I ever believed, and come to terms with both.   I hope you understand what I mean by that and I hope that other readers in this group will show forbearance towards someone who, though they will make mistakes on the way, is nonetheless making an honest and sincere attempt to discover her truth for herself.

With respect ............. Olivia

_____________________________

***~ Success can not be measured in the respect gained from others, only by the respect that, with complete self honesty and freed of ego or delusion, we are able to give ourselves.~***

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 1330

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/6/2009 4:40:41 PM

Mitzie

Posts: 688
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline

Welcome Olivia to the FW section

Orion hurrah for a man who is opinionated please dont ever change ( grins)

Mitzie

_____________________________

"The free should not be slave, and the slave should not be free," he said. "I do not understand," she said. "Just as it is wrong for the properly free to be enslaved," he said, "so, too, it is wrong for the properly enslaved to be free."PoG

(in reply to MissDominae)

Post #: 1331

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/6/2009 5:19:03 PM

MissDominae

Posts: 94
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

Thank you Mitzie,
I hope you'll make room for an opinionated woman too, once I feel confident enough in myself to HAVE an opinion in this very new field

Olivia

_____________________________

***~ Success can not be measured in the respect gained from others, only by the respect that, with complete self honesty and freed of ego or delusion, we are able to give ourselves.~***

(in reply to Mitzie)

Post #: 1332

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/6/2009 8:13:33 PM

Maahsatti

Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline

lol

Hi Olivia,
You will find that ALL the women here are opinionated.

Maahsatti

< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 6/6/2009 8:14:01 PM >

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to MissDominae)

Post #: 1333

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/7/2009 9:41:31 AM

Brule

Posts: 61
Joined: 11/1/2006
Status: offline

I don't post on the boards often, I don't even follow them that much . Many say that this thread is for free women, but since so many cross post I thought I would post on here to answer something that I found very interesting. The following quote

quote:

(No, neither would I seek to go against a slaves Owner and his instructions and I agree, a slaves actions reflect more on her Owner and IMO when a slaves owner openly practices and condones behaviors that could be easily taken offensive to some Free, such as instructing his slave to blatently disreguard how to properly address a Free, Even if that Owner does it because he dislikes that Free or feels they do not deserve the title or position of being Free ( and this is just for an instance, 1 out of many many other distasteful behaviors)To me speaks volumes to the character, honor and integrity of that owner)

A slave is expected to call Free by Master or Mistress, but only those who live the lifestyle, not play at it or use it to"sit at the big kids table" as it has been talked of a few times. If a Master instructs His slave not refer to someone this way there is a reason, not liking someone is not a reason. But if someone is found to be a fraud or player and wants to act like they are someone they are not they do not have the right or privledge to be called by the names that are given to those who have earned it. There are many that claim to live this lifestyle and can when they sit behind the keyboard, but this lifestyle is about what you believe, live, and act in real. It is easy to say anything on here, say you truely live the lifestyle, but it is more important what you live and how you live in real and be around others that do the same. The people that don't get acknowledged in the same manner as people that live the lifestyle, show their true selves when they cry because they are not acknowledged as a Free. Just because a person says they are, doesn't mean they are, they will be judged by their words and actions.

This may be My opinion, and I have the right to give My opinion, but I also think there are many others that feel the same way and do not have anything to do with the fakes.

Brule

(in reply to Maahsatti)

Post #: 1334

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/7/2009 2:20:38 PM

MissDominae

Posts: 94
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

Brule, I found your words to be wise, well considered and well worthy of my thought.

I am a novice, true, and I have proved myself to no one. That said, I am not going to cry or act with petulance if I am not accorded respect as I believe it may be due to me. The not showing of respect reflects only on that person so doing, and not on me. The one person I need to prove myself to IS myself and what others think is, as you correctly comment, THEIR right.

I take no insult from not being called Mistress because to do so would be to empower others over me; to make their words have meaning over and above my own self assessment. I am here to learn, to grow and to earn what privilege may accrue from my efforts, but I am here to prove myself to no one BUT myself. In that I am Free and that is something none can ever take from me. If others come to accept me for who I am then I am well pleased, but I do not need their acceptance to be myself.

Thank you for your stimulating comments.

With respect ............ Olivia

_____________________________

***~ Success can not be measured in the respect gained from others, only by the respect that, with complete self honesty and freed of ego or delusion, we are able to give ourselves.~***

(in reply to Brule)

Post #: 1335

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/7/2009 3:01:42 PM

Maahsatti

Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline

I stand by my words that a slaves actions reflect their owner and by the example I gave above.
Some people out there refuse to follow the leader and get fed up with double standards and hypocricy, so in response to that many who would shout out, I am real you are a fake because of that fact turn and instruct their slaves who have no voice to follow their lead..
And thats all that is.

Maahsatti
P.S. and to add...some who think they sit at the cool kids table do not realize that some of us are the cool kids table already

< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 6/7/2009 3:05:04 PM >

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Brule)

Post #: 1336

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/7/2009 8:52:52 PM

JarlOlaf

Posts: 186
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline

I would not permit the slave girl to speak my name. It is not fitting that the name of the master be soiled by being touched by the lips of a slave girl." pg 360 Tribesmen of Gor

The Gorean slave girl addresses all free men as 'Master' and all free women as 'Mistress.' pg 215 Assassins of Gor

Just a couple of thoughts on the topic

Olaf

_____________________________

I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes, Because celluloid heroes never feel any pain
And celluloid heroes never really die.

(in reply to Maahsatti)

Post #: 1337

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/7/2009 10:02:48 PM

Kimveri

Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline

~FR~

People reap what they sow. If they lie, play games, pretend to be what they are not...& get caught....chances are there will be consequences. Perhaps even the oh-so-awful consequence of a slave or two not being permitted to address them with honorifics.

Damn, that's one hefty, painful, gut-wrenching consequence, eh? Likely too much for some to handle.

*rolls my eyes & closes the browser

~Kimveri

_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to JarlOlaf)

Post #: 1338

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/8/2009 12:17:48 AM

MissDominae

Posts: 94
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

Kimveri, please forgive me here. I gather that your comment above is ironic and in reference to something which was said but, either through my current ignorance of the Gorean Path at present or just through simple ignorance full stop, I don't really understand the point you were making. I would like to understand, for that is how I shall learn.

Would you please elaborate on what you mean?

My thanks ........ Olivia

_____________________________

***~ Success can not be measured in the respect gained from others, only by the respect that, with complete self honesty and freed of ego or delusion, we are able to give ourselves.~***

(in reply to Kimveri)

Post #: 1339

RE: FW Dialogue - 6/8/2009 9:57:45 AM

Kimveri

Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline

Howdy, Olivia,

It's simple, really:

There are some people who talk the talk but do not actually walk the walk. They may say they bring Gorean tenets to their actions but saying it & doing it are not the same thing.

It's hard to discover this sort of hypocrisy on the net, but time & proximity does reveal a lot. Let's look at a hypothetical scenario here:

There's a hypothetical person whose friends eventually recognized the person's refusal to manifest those tenets into action, which caused the friends to make choices as a result of that refusal.

One of those choices might be that the friend(s) will no longer treat this person in the manner accorded to Goreans. IOW, the friend(s) choose to no longer prop up what they see as a facade by behaving as if the person actually manifest those tenets.

To do so would be to propagate a falsehood, neh?

So, this decision affects all sorts of interactions: the least of which is that any hypothetical slave of the hypothetical friend would no longer refer to this person (the one hypothetically being false) with any honorifics typically used for Gorean free.

My sarcasm was directed at the irrationality of making the titles - or absence of them - the topic of discussion when it is merely one small symptom of a much more serious causative issue.

But then, to some people, those small things that support the appearance of Gorean-ness are the most they can attain & thus are of vital importance.

I hope that clarifies for you, Olivia.

~Kimveri

_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to MissDominae)

Post #: 1340

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