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RE: FW Dialogue


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RE: FW Dialogue - 1/27/2008 2:51:34 PM   
Cherylmazana


Posts: 1151
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		You know it’s interesting that you mentioned honesty TM4Y. The implication being that women in arguments are dishonest, I cannot speak for myself but I can guarantee I will always speak the truth, its why so few ask me for the truth once they know me.

Ask for the truth and then someone gets hurt, and the real arguments fuelled by feelings start. And men get just as emotional as women when they hear a truth they don’t want to acknowledge.

If you are used to dishonesty in your dealings with women then you are really looking for the wrong type.

Cheryl

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/27/2008 3:15:57 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		~FR~

I believe it has been mentioned that it is not always what you say, but how you say it. Regardless of whether you are Free Man, Free Woman, or slave, if you come at me in a certain way, you will always get a certain response. It comes down to whether you are trying to actually convey your point or have other motives.

So if the perceptions of some Free Men, are not what some Free Women feel they should be, what would be the best approach to correcting the perception? This is kind of what I have been getting at in some other topics I have started. It matters not what a communications intent is, if the perception is different, then the communication is different, and this I speak of first hand as the defensiveness on certain subjects have clouded the intent that fueled the questions. I see it happening again. Would our efforts not be better placed to correct the miscommunication? Being respectful and nice in a communication, is not kowtowing.

Just my thoughts, for those that care to read them, and for those that don't I refuse to argue anymore.

Live well,
Orion

P.S. If the topic is actually going to be discussed, I recommend it be moved to a seperate thread, so as not to intrude on this one.

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to Cherylmazana)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/27/2008 5:17:17 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Smiles..thank you for the advice... let me take that to committee. Im sure we can find the time to put together a special commission on the viability of that occurring anytime in the near future. Should the outcome be positive Im sure you will be informed in triplicate.

Have a nice Day
SD

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/27/2008 5:24:30 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Cherylmazana:

As people who know me are wont to point out .. and as I am wont to point out when I get that aghast look on someones face.. "If you don't want the question answered why did you ask the question." Shrugs..Ive never understood asking something you weren't prepared to hear either the affirmative or the negative response.

Peace be with you
SD

< Message edited by Sylverdawn -- 1/27/2008 5:27:24 PM >

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to Cherylmazana)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/27/2008 8:54:52 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace

I do not think Aswad was failing to recognize the difference.


I certainly hope not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ygraine

I think, as you said Aswad, these men would see right through manipulation and the consequences would be pretty ugly.


That is not at all what I said. I have seen men admit to missing intentional manipulation (by the woman's admission) way too often to harbor too many illusions about the perceptiveness of the average male in this regard. Either way, though, I would say the act itself should be the ugly thing. For instance, deference is little more than yielding to an opponent that should have nothing but contempt for such a gesture of pity and its implications for how the low regard he is held in. What respect is demonstrated by shielding a man from the truth as if he were a swaddling child? For that matter, what dignity is exhibited by the woman who would do so, yet also claim to be of a Gorean persuasion? A circumspect approach is, to my mind, an undesireable cultural legacy.

Bottom line, if you have something to say, then say it.

If he can't take it, well... it's time to think very carefully about what to do next year..

quote:

I have to say though, that regarding kowtowing, I would disagree that all men do not like that. I think there is an (albeit small)  subset of Gorean men who would prefer a slave over a free woman because a slave would do what he commanded, and not disagree.


Sure. And three other posters than myself have indicated that the origins of this are simple enough: they have some issues sharing their lives with an equal partner who isn't a very close match to themselves. The kajira is not equal, and will take what it is offered. Dignity is not an issue. She is taken to the station he has in mind for her, and that may generally range from a bipedal pet to just shy of what less discerning palates might term a full partner.

It is a utilitarian approach, but not without its own sort of charm.

Claiming that such a pet has anything to do with an FC, however, well... I try to be a bit more honest than that.

Now, I'm not about to go analyzing the reasons why some choose to spend their life with a cat or a dog or a kajira instead of spending it with an FC, because I don't need to, and I respect that choice. The bottom line remains the same as always: unless both parties are viable as equal partners to each other, then such a relationship doesn't fly. Be a bit like if you were to fall for Babs, right? Of course, it might still stand a shot if one of the people involve are willing to kneel; to surrender to the control of another. But who will be doing so? Surrender is neither the act of an FW, nor the act of an FM, so where does that leave anyone?

Going their seperate ways, pretty much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace

Thing is, I see the term "mouthy free woman" as a way of saying, "how dare you expect me to be man enough to hold my own in a conversation, or life, without the equivalent of a golfer's handicap?"


You nailed it. That seems to be the typical case.

Either that, or one of those things where people never look deeper than "that's just how it is" and ascribe a virtually supernatural power to the Y-chromosome and, of course, its visible manifestation: The Almighty Third Swollen Leg That Friggin' Could...

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/27/2008 9:27:10 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sylverdawn

You like blunt.. well here is blunt..


Muchos gracias.

quote:

most men can't handle a strong willed intelligent upfront woman


Bingo.

quote:

so called Gorean Men.


Emphasis mine.

quote:

There is no intended manipulation in picking the place and time of your battles.


I realize that. But here's where Venus has retrograde rotation, while Mars has prograde rotation: men and women guess differently at the intentions and emotional contexts, as well as interpreting things differently. I know the intentions are good, and I keep that in mind when judging things. I also know that I am unable to see it as anything other than applying a strategy toward a preset goal that is not the mere transfer of information. As you said, you don't ask your parents about a car after failing all your classes. Instead, you wait until your chances of success are best; your chances of having your way.

In short, manipulation. No biggie, but there it is.
And I fully realize that most men who ask for a straight game can't really take one.
How women can live with them without coming to resent them, is well beyond my comprehension, however.

quote:

and you don't go piss off the man in your life after he has walked in the door having pulled a double shift.


This nicely captures the distinction between being considerate, and being cunning.
Of course, being considerate has its own pitfalls, but that's probably a topic for another thread.

quote:

To call that manipulation is misunderstanding the intent.


No, it's being too honest, a.k.a. being blunt. Which is why I asked for blunt in the first place: I usually limit myself to "direct," but in this case, "blunt" may be the only thing that will get the job done. In a relationship, I tend to prefer "direct," but have no trouble with "blunt" either. In a debate, or when seeking the truth, I prefer "blunt." Always.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Sylverdawn)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: FW Dialog - 1/27/2008 9:32:17 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Tal TM4Y,

Bingo. Direct is usually the safe bet. It tends to work well with most men. Blunt only works with some, or only part of the time. And, yes, there is no such thing as the right time. Or, at least, I've never encountered a case where the right time came up. Usually, the time when a problem can be resolved is a distinct time, though. And Murphy's Law of Timing is pretty adamant that that point in time precedes the point where the requisite information is disclosed, such that we can sort of infer that a right time did exist at some point, it just never ends up being noticed until it's past. Absolutely agree on trying to make sure there's time to finish the conversation.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Totalmaster4you)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/27/2008 9:34:43 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Wow. You need to get out and meet some other men.


That she does... but, sadly, the majority seem to be as she described.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/27/2008 9:54:55 PM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Tal Cheryl,
Tal Elizabeth,
 
To be straight up I didn't imply that women would be dishonest in their desire to be "right" only that I had observed honesty being sacrificed in discussions between men and women. I wrote it that way so that it could apply to either sex. Saying that I implied a negative trait to FW smacks of defensiveness on your part.
 
Additionally my comments were meant to add dimension and depth to the conversation. Instead of using this post as a springboard to positive discussion you chose to attack and Elizabeth chose to nit pick. It's not a stretch to realize the context that I meant Elizabeth. How many times has one partner said I was waiting until you were more relaxed or for the right time to talk to you. The positive way would have been to acknowledge how it was meant and propose alternative phrasing instead of trying to show me up.
 
If the end result of the discussion is to improve communication and understanding between FM and FW then attacking my post is not condusive to my wanting to continue the discussion.
 
I wish you all well,
TM4Y

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to Cherylmazana)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/27/2008 10:01:39 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

Welcome to our little corner of the world Aswad.


It is not corners that summon me, but need...

Anyway, I bring greatings, sweetened mead, and roasted Killer Tomatoes.

quote:

There are times to speak up, and times to wait, as Cheryl, and others have mentioned.


So I have heard. The best case I've heard for it so far was one that concluded that the alternative would be to become Noam Chomsky. But I should hope a relationship does not see quite that many issues to address. And the notions women have of the right times of each sort are often radically different from the notions men have. I tend to ascribe this to cultural gender roles.

quote:

Interesting you chose the word manipulate, I wonder what word you would have chosen, had the answers here been those of confronting men more as an equal. Bitch perhaps?


Friend would be a good start.

I have no need for women to defer to me in order to validate me.
If I could not handle it, what would there be to validate?

quote:

Traditionally, and I am only speaking for me, my own experiences, no ONE else, I have found when trying to debate an issue with a Gorean man, head to toe, it is useless. Unless they want to listen, they won't.


That's a human thing. But if the reason for not listening is that you are a woman, then they have issues that I would place far from any ideals of excellence, strength and so forth. Secondary to that are the implications for honesty and integrity if they aren't forthright with themselves about whence this derives, what form it takes, and the fact that it's irrational.

quote:

As someone said, pick the battle.


Of course. But neither is there a need to hand someone "victory" if indeed you see it as a battle. Such an act of pity is demeaning to both parties. If he can't accomplish it for himself, getting it handed to him when he isn't asking is on par with rubbing salt in it.

quote:

Better to respond with logic, than with emotion.


I usually do.

quote:

Well Aswad, if your intent was to incite reaction on this subject, I would say you succeeded.


I intended to incite thought, as usual.

Whether I succeeded at that, we will see in a few days, I guess.

quote:

Leveling the words slave/manipulation towards a group of free women, be prepared for the backlash.


Always.

quote:

And there ARE men that do prefer slaves to free women, as I have said many times, far easier to command a slave than to command the respect of free women.


Something which I have never laid at the feet of the FW.

But I have been adamant that if one would lower oneself so, then FW was never an appropriate term in the first place. Hell, I've always said that dogmatic male dominance becomes nothing more than a way for weak men to have what they can't earn. As I see it, unless one falls for a slave in the first place (love is a funny thing, neh?), the ideal is pretty much to have an FC and to spackle the difference between the realistic match and the (non-existent) ideal with pets- including kajirae. Sprinkle additional ones for comfort or kink, if either is to your liking.

quote:

And there are those men that SAY they could care less...right.


I've lived what they have said, for approximately two decades now.

And I'm well aware that self-evaluation is affected by cultural expectations.

quote:

From all the Gorean men I have encountered over the years, I would say there may be a handful that could care less what others think, usually the opposite is true, yet hell would freeze over before they would admit it.


Which is as much as saying you've only met a handful of honest Gorean men... men of integrity.

I have no problem with that assertion.

quote:

Keep in mind Gorean women ARE submissive, with every one of them in varying degrees of submissiveness.


Keep in mind that all humans are. Again, with varying degrees. Some of those degrees, we'd call dominant. I've met very few women who were dominant. Fewer than I've met men who were. But they're not unicorns. Anyway, the human psyche is a complicated thing, and I've never suggested otherwise than that the norm is a dominant male and a submissive female.

quote:

But one thing I have seen in common with the women I know - (disclaimer - again from MY own personal experience) tend to temper their thoughts constructively with Gorean men, and with respect, especially to those men WITHIN their circle of influence.


Being constructive was not what I addressed.
I see that as an entirely admirable trait.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/27/2008 10:05:22 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana

Ask for the truth and then someone gets hurt, and the real arguments fuelled by feelings start.
And men get just as emotional as women when they hear a truth they don’t want to acknowledge.


I can only repeat what Tim said, because this is yet another case of sample bias.

Either that, or my standards are too high for reality.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Cherylmazana)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/27/2008 10:09:02 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Tal Orion,

Is this not, at least in part, an opportunity to deal specifically with the FW half of the equation?
As such, I should think some of this touches directly on that.
So, why move the topic elsewhere?

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/28/2008 12:35:40 AM   
Cherylmazana


Posts: 1151
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		My apologies then TM4Y I read it as women as the discussion had changed to women and manipulation and you did not mention men or both.

Cheryl

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: FW Dialog - 1/28/2008 1:01:56 AM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Tal Cheryl,
 
Thank you for the apology. It is appreciated and accepted. In the past some of the communication between FM and FW has been less than it could be. Maybe antagonistic or one up or gotcha from both sides. It would be nice if this could be a turning point where FM and FW can complement each other as I believe it can and should be.

I wish you well,
TM4Y
~edited to correct a spelling error~ 

< Message edited by Totalmaster4you -- 1/28/2008 1:03:15 AM >

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to Cherylmazana)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: FW Dialog - 1/28/2008 3:14:14 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hi TM4Y,

   I am not much understanding this issue about FW and FM having difficulties in communicating with each other in a respectful or even pleasant mannor.

Personally, I do not have trouble in doing so. When I know and respect a man, even if I do not agree with him over a particular issue, I do not find it difficult in debating the topic in a friendly, mature level.
Even men I do not particularly care for, or even dislike , I am respectful to and mindful of my place and tone, with.
On the other hand however, if a man is not who and what he claims to be or if he is not a man of honor, integrity and sound value, I admit, I am short with and intolerant of. I can be quite unpleasant and what some would classify as being (the mouthy FW)...lol I am no angel by any stretch of the imagination and I have quite the hot temper, not to mention...well..ok, I will mention...extremely opinionated and oft times, judgemental. To me though, in order for me to act out of character like that, it would mean I have zero respect for him and that would take and be for good reason.
All in all though, I normally do not have problems communicating with FM in a mature, respectful attitude and the FW I associate with are much the same as I am.
Infact, it was Liz who helped me over the yrs, to learn a bit of tact. a work still very much in progress....lol
I can be and am a very straight forward woman and yes..a lot of times, quite blunt and brazen.But the men I associate with are the same way and expect it from me.
When I get a bit carried away or a tad overly passionate about a certain topic though, those men make short work of letting me know and adjusting ...umm...my mannor....lol...Not one of them, would think twice about dope slapping me, if ever I disrespected them, even if unintentionally...though honestly, I do not forget my place or who I am speaking to...(chuckles) among them.

Take care,
Babs

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Totalmaster4you)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/28/2008 4:44:16 AM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1072
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline 		As a Free, how do you handle it when you disagree strongly with the signifigant men in your life? 
 
I wish I could say it was always done with tact and grace....but then I would be lying.

Coming from a long line of emotional Italians, there are times when the mouth engages before the brain.  

Blurting out "NO", does not bring results, in fact quite the opposite.  I have learned the phrase, "can we please discuss this".  It wasn't easy, but I find that when disagreements happen, that works much better then stamping a foot and making demands.  Only twice that I remember, have I been told the topic is not open for debate, not a bad ratio :)

Wonderful question grace, I hope my reply isn't too late, we were buried in snow all weekend without power. 

Lisa



_____________________________

"Harry Potter is all about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight, is all about how important it is to have a boyfriend"
--- Stephen King

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/28/2008 6:00:27 AM   
Mitzie


Posts: 688
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline 		 Tal Cheryl
                 I too have to agree about being truthful I cant see the point in  being dishonest so if someone says to me what do you think about this well then they know they will get an honest answer  even if it may offend ,

I have been seeing someone since before christmas and I wont say he is Gorean as in the facts he has not read a book yet but I will say he does  have some of the Traits of a Gorean Man or one who lives by the lifestyle .

A prime example arose last night  when he said ok time for bed I was in the middle of a game of Mah Jong and I was not in the slightest bit tired I have been used to doing my own thing for over 4 years , My answer to him was 15 more mins please  and he agreed  but 15 mins later  the computer was switched off and we went to bed ,

He likes the fact that I will stand my ground with him  but I do know how far to go and learning when to shut up , he is aware when I disagree with him but I dont push it

                  Mitzie

_____________________________

"The free should not be slave, and the slave should not be free," he said. "I do not understand," she said. "Just as it is wrong for the properly free to be enslaved," he said, "so, too, it is wrong for the properly enslaved to be free."PoG



(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/28/2008 6:09:40 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Tal Aswad,

Okay I will try a stab at this then. We will see how things go, yet again.

In the past I have had relationships with free and independent females, and they ended in failure. Western society seems to place a lot of expectations on how they should act, and this learned behavior often causes problems with dominant males. My girl speaks honestly to me, and sometimes disagrees with me, but she does so in a respectful and as pleasing manner as she can. So the premise that Men want a slave so that no one disagrees with them, is bullshit and avoiding issues. It is a cope out to say that Men choose slaves because it is easier, maybe instead they should try and look into some of the real reasons. When a Man says some of the real reasons, they deny it and point to something being wrong in the Man, which is also bullshit because the whole finger pointing starts with a Free Woman making a defensive comment about some Men choosing slaves over a Free Companion.

Some Free Women have not shed the manipulative Western woman thinking that society has nurtured into them, and it is apparent in some of their comments that have a dual purpose, get their point across and incite an emotional reaction. I have seen discussions with Free Women asking challenging questions, and that is great, and I have also seen Free Women just acting bitchy and a smartass. If some Free Women do not want some Free Men to have the perception that some are bitchy and a smartass, then address the actions of those Free Women because silence just condones it.

These are my perceptions and only actions over a period of time will change them. Let us see if this breaks down like it did before, with some Free Women just reinforcing those perceptions, some of the comments since this started already have.

Live well,
Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Tal Orion,

Is this not, at least in part, an opportunity to deal specifically with the FW half of the equation?
As such, I should think some of this touches directly on that.
So, why move the topic elsewhere?

Health,
al-Aswad.



_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/28/2008 6:55:03 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Tal Orion,

I am quite aware that social mores can complicate a relationship significantly in some cases.

And I would note that this appears to be one of the more literal pieces of advice in the books. Sometimes, you have to take away what she doesn't truly have, but could have, in order to get at the chains that keep her from having it. Freedom, that is. A web that has been carefully spun since birth is no less of a restraint than a collar and shackles. Ideally, one might find a partner that is already at the end of that tunnel, but that's like searching for a speck of gold in the midst of a desert storm. Which will change, some generations down the line, when a natural Gorean culture emerges, but in the meantime, there are precious few Free of either gender among those who count themselves Gorean. Yet, for now, one has to make do with what is already there, as we cannot change human nature. And indeed it would seem odd to seek to do so.

Anyway, we seem to be thinking similar but subtly different things, here.

How things play out, and what place the FW make for themselves, will be interesting to see. My perception is that most FM who have poor opinions of FW have yet to meet any that live up to the standards they have in mind for one, and that- similarly- most FW who have poor opinions of FM have similarly mostly encountered those who are too set in their own thinking (typically fairly Western) to progress. If one has not met a man or woman of caliber, it is easy to assume that men or women are all of substandard quality, while it's really not the case. It's just that quality (of the sort that one looks for in the Free) is an exceedingly rare thing among humans.

Which raises another topic, but this isn't the time and place for that.

Health,
al-Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: FW Dialogue - 1/28/2008 6:59:55 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hi there orion,

  I wanted to thank you for expressing that (some) FW do this or (some) FW do that, and not generalize all FW into the same behavioral category.
Unfortunately, it has been a pattern with (some) FM, to look at all FW in the same light and to place them into the same behavioral categories for the actions of (some) FW.
This has made it hard on those FW who try and work hard at maintaining a balance between being the FW she is and the submissive woman she is.
So, again, I only wanted to tell you how much it was appreciated by me, that you specifically did not do as such.

Much care to you,
Maah

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 140
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