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RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/10/2005 4:32:58 PM

Kaylen

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/7/2005
Status: offline

mmm thank you so much for your reply, KeaDan.

Since you would like to drag Mr. Norman into this discussion .. oh yes, lets.

To be Gorean is to base your actions on the actions/philosophies of the characters he created, no? After all, Goreans wouldn't be "Goreans" without those rather badly written books. Let's look at it that way. In the books, I cannot remember a time that a Gorean kajira had a "safeword." Please do correct me if I'm wrong on that specific point. From what I recall, kajira were at the mercy of their Masters .. completely. Now, in the real world of course we cannot have Men storming the streets slapping collars on unsuspecting females and forcing them into submission .. or killing them for being displeasing, but when we adapt the Gorean ways to real life, we still can expect that Gorean kajira, once willingly taking a collar, to be at that man's mercy. They give up their rights at the door and may pick them up on the way out .. but anything in between is HIS decision, not hers.

It's very cute how you searched out my profile and assume that because I'm listed as a Domme and have subs that I know nothing about Gorean ways. I actually know quite a bit and have been a part of the Gorean communities online ('cause we rednecks here in redneck central don't have a r/l gorean community) for 10 years. But to answer your questions, no, we don't have a safeword .. why, you ask? Because it's not needed. They trust me implicitly and we speak at length about everything. I know mine inside and out, I chose mine because they are likeminded, because they are open and honest and I don't have to worry that because they might hide something from me that I will "accidentally" harm them mentally, emotionally, or physically.

The reason I disagree with you on this point is because if one talks at length with their slaves, they will know how far to take them before it will reach a breaking point and a "need" for a safeword, and stop there. Thus eliminating the need for it. You are, of course, entitled to your opinions, just as I am entitled to mine. You are more than welcome to disagree with me, just as I disagree with you.

To answer your next question .. Complete trust is the knowledge that he will do nothing to harm her, that he knows her THAT WELL and not feeling the need for a safeword :)

As for you being a Gorean Master with a Gorean kajira, you are, of course, entitled to label yourself however you like. However, if you are basing Gor on the Gorean ways that Norman wrote of (and what else would you base it on?) as wonderful as your relationship with your girl is, and as many gorean traits as you bring to it, adapting it to the real world of course (minus tarns, vulos, sleen (though i do know a few that closely resemble them), kailla, the caste system, storming 'round slapping collars and using women anywhere ya damn well please 'cause you're a man, etc.) ... if you don't adhere to what CAN be adapted to the real world (no use of safewords, total power exchange, etc.) you are not living Gorean in every sense of the word. You are more living a BDSM lifestyle with either a little or a lot of Gorean flavor.

Once again, as I said .. You are free to label yourself in any way you choose. Just 'cause you say you are Gorean doesn't mean other Goreans will see you as such because of different traits that you leave out.

After all .. you can put your boots in the oven, but that doesnt make them biscuits ;)

I wish you most well
Kaylen

(in reply to KeaDan)

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Post #: 161

RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/10/2005 9:25:23 PM

edana

Posts: 594
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Goreans do not use safewords for a simple reason. A Master -knows- his property, they talk at length, he knows her limits, etc. BEFORE there is a collar. There is no need for a safeword if the lines of communication are as open as they should be. The Master may push his property's limits, to take her to the edge .. but he knows what is healthy for her, what she can take

greetings Mistress.

i took some time to think about what you said here, and generally I would be one of the first to jump on the "no safeword" bandwagon. but i was thinking more in the terms of a master pushing a slave's limits. Where it is true that a gorean girl does not negotiate her 'limits' prior to being collared, she still has them... and even i have come face to face with them... what i do, and this may just be me, but if i am pushed to a 'limit' as i see it... basically if i reach a point where i feel i cannot continue i beg for mercy. is this a 'safeword'?

perhaps. but the difference lies with the reaction of my master. i know that even tho i beg mercy, i may not get it. for instance, if master is punishing me i always wind up begging mercy, but he does not relent until he feels i am a disciplined girl. now if i am being used harshly i might beg mercy and a moment of his tenderness. (something he sees as pretty) he is usually more inclined to grant this.

in the end, it's about what pleases him, a slave who is trembling in her passion and begging mercy is quite a good thing for a man/dominant.

i only knew my master for a short time before i begged his collar... yea about 2 hours i think *smiles* ... i chalk it up to the fact that i think we were made for each other and it only took him longer than expected to find me.

but seriously tho, we spoke for only a few weeks before he came to inspect me, and i begged his collar. the only thing i knew was that he was a 'good' man. he was honorable, and hard working. well, ok, he was really sexy too. but that aside...

as i have stated in other posts, when you come across your 'natural master' there is really no need for contracts, or safewords... the only necessary skills are

perfect obedience, and exquisite beauty

in service

edana

(in reply to Kaylen)

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Post #: 162

RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/10/2005 9:41:22 PM

Kaylen

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/7/2005
Status: offline

edana,

thank you for your well articulated post :)) I've loved reading all of yours that I've seen. To answer your question, no I don't think that begging mercy is a "safeword".

As you said, when you beg for mercy it is HIS decision on whether or not to grant it. A safeword is one (at least in my opinion ..and I've been known to be wrong *gasp*) that when said it is agreed between the two parties that whatever activity is happening will stop because the -slave- feels a need to stop, which gives her the ultimate power, not the Master, as it should be in a gorean relationship.

As for how long you knew your Master before begging for his collar, I think truly you are the exception, not the norm. I agree that there are some that just -know- that they are meant to be with someone and when it works out, it is truly a beautiful thing. Not everyone can be so lucky though. For many, the "getting to know you" phase lasts a long time, with many meetings, conversations, etc., before that perfect trust can be achieved that you gave to your Master so quickly and willingly.

I'm in no way saying that either way is right or wrong, everyone does what is best for them and whatever tickles their turnips is fine .. my only point was this "to claim you are a Gorean when your slave has that kind of power, is not entirely correct."

you and your Master, edana, claim to be Gorean .. and from everything I've read here from both of you, it seems the perfect term to describe your relationship ;)

I wish you most well,
Kaylen

(in reply to edana)

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Post #: 163

RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/10/2005 9:54:31 PM

edana

Posts: 594
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline

This was posted by Leonidas, who will, one day, remember to check whether he's looking at the forum using his slave's account before posting

quote:

One did NOT say "...slave breeched it by running off."

Rather "if it was challenged." NOT by mine but by "another", or for that matter by society in general.

Hope that clears that PART up for thee Leonidas. :-)

Well, first of all, if you tortue your girl half as effectively as you torture English, I may have to concede the point that a safe-word might be a good idea. What the hell are you talking about? Are you trying to say that you'd use the contract as a defense if you got arrested for, well, whatever? Are you trying to say that you'd use the contract if "another" were to try to take your slave away? What?

quote:

ALL very VALID points, wherein you suppose, it is the slave breaking the contract, rather then an outside challenge.

Easy enough mistake to make, no harm no foul. :-)

Again, what kind of outside challenge? From whom? What exactly do you think a contract like that is going to do for you in a court?

quote:

Being a Gorean all of my Adult life, One is NO stranger to "ridicule", from some of the following; the vanilla GENERAL PUBLIC, SCA members, BDSMers, Gays, OLD Leather, NEW Leather, as well as just about every other "kink" group, including "goreans" themselves.

The 15 ehn of fame might be entertaining if One was seeking such, as to a "laughing stock", One would hold head HIGH, as a Gorean Master, PROUD at bringing to the PUPLIC light of day, the knowledge that there ARE those living the Gorean Lifesyle here on Urth!

I would hope that you could think of a better way to potray Goreans in public. Maybe not. By the way, I have never known anyone but online role-players to spell "Earth" like "Urth". Role-players spell it that way in chatrooms to make it seem like they aren't from "Urth", I guess. It's never spelled that way in the Gor books, and lifestyle Goreans generally write in plain old (un-tortured) English.

quote:

1) As a Gorean Master it behooves One to ensure his property-to-be, is WELL informed in both the expectations and nature of a Gorean household as well as her duties and obligations to the Master and his property, BEFORE the steel encircles her neck, (the discussion & drafting of this contract ensures the slaves knowledge of all expected of her).

A Gorean slave understands that her duty and obligation to her master is absolute obedience. Period. Once she is a slave, she is a slave, and subject to her master's will. If she's a smart girl, she has learned about the man to whom she is submitting, and has some idea of what uses she will likely be put, but that's about all. Once a slave, she is her master's property to do with as he sees fit. Gorean bondage isn't TPE. It's not practiced the same way. Gorean slavery is plain old chattel slavery. What you are describing you learned, not from Goreans, but from the BDSM community, either online or elsewhere. It is common practice among those in the BDSM community who engage in some form of contractual slavery, usually referred to as "Power Exchange" or "Total Power Exchange" (TPE).

quote:

This "INDENTURED SLAVE'S CONTRACT" is NOT for This Master, but for the kajira-to-be, her FIRST lesson within the framework of a Gorean Lifestyle Family.

If she comes from the BDSM community, she'll be quite at home with it. It's common practice there.

quote:

One is NOT sure about your wagon & fur activity Leonidas, mine is a personal endeavour of taking my sa`fora to the limits of her personal best and more often then NOT past... it is durring these times One allows the use of a "safewords", One knows the devotion of His to be the MOST pleasing she can for This Master, in so doing it is necessary for her to be able to inform This Master when or if she is physicaly or mentaly to the point of potentialy damaging His property, ergo a "safeword".

My what? You're describing "pushing limits", and giving the submissive a way to "cry uncle" (a safeword). Again, it's a common concept and practice from the BDSM community when engaging in SM oriented play. It's very uncommon in the Gorean community. Goreans are, by in large, more oriented toward bondage and discipline than SM. If you want to engage in that kind of play, that's fine. If you are a "heavy player" and find it exciting or enjoyable to engage in activities that could easily result in permanent injury or death, then yes, you'd best give your slave a way to "cry uncle".

quote:

At a REAL fiscal cost, for support, feeding, medical, dental, clothing {collars do cost}, equipment etc., This Master for one can NOT really be expected to just bypass the SSC ethos nor toss the body in the canal for the urts and go to the local pagar taven for another 3 copper tarsk girl.

I have only the vaguest clue what you're trying to say here. SSC (safe, sane, and consentual) is, again, a concept from the BDSM community. Again, it relates mostly to SM oriented play, where safety is at issue. Keeps people who have a sadistic streak from deciding that hanging their submissives from meat hooks by their heels and skinning them alive would be a good idea. In other words, it's a sanity check (the sane part). It's not a term or concept in wide use among Goreans. Again, Goreans don't generally engage in SM play.

quote:

As the following quote shows, after the contract is signed by the Free or slave, she is collared. From that ihn on that contract is ONLY for those of Urth, NOT for the lowly kajira NOW of a Gorean Family.

Okay, now you're starting to be an embarassment. We're all from "Urth". What I've been trying to explain to you is that, other than spelling out for you and your girl what you have and haven't agreed to, your contract isn't worth the paper it's written on. It won't be of any use to you in any other way.

quote:

This has a GREAT Gorean sound to it Leonidas, the REALITY is, a girl may have, emotional, family, medical, mental, physical, physiological issues, to mention only a few, This Master IS CONCERNED about ALL these, if PRE-COLLAR consideration, discussion, exploration and notation of these, is what you refer to when you say "we don't negotiate the submission of a slave", BROTHER Leonidas, you are NO MORE Gorean then the BDSM community you say "We've taken a lot of heat for it over the years...".

Huh? OK. First of all, I'm not your brother. You aren't my sibling, I'm not a monk (and I don't think that you are either), You aren't my sword-brother, or my caste-brother (I don't think). You might be in the habit of calling everyone you meet "brother", and I know it's common in the chatrooms, but I don't use the term lightly, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't use it toward me unless it applies.

I would hope that you know the girl that you are collaring before you collar her. We don't negotiate the submission of a slave. Among Goreans, a slave doesn't get to submit with caveats, conditions, and addendums. She submits unconditionally. I'll say it again. Goreans don't contract with slaves, and we don't use safe-words. Yes, we've taken a great deal of heat about it from the BDSM community over the years, since contracting, negotiations, and safe-words are considered sacrosanct in their culture. If you've adopted their ways, that's fine.

quote:

KO`LAR

Is another role-player-ism, just so that you know. Most lifestyle Goreans roll their eyes and assign you to that category in their minds when they see you use it.

quote:

Very true Leonidas, if ONLY we were talking about the kajira running off, rather then the validity of an INDENTURED SLAVE'S CONTRACT and the Governmental and/or Social "safety net", that imposes its protection upon a kajira's servitude to This Master, without asking either party.

I haven't the foggiest idea what you're trying to say there. If you're trying to say that your contract will hold any water with any governmental agency, it won't. Period.

quote:

One will add, *the scars ripple upon his cheeks as he smiles*, YOU DO NOT, Leonidas speak for "U/us - O/our" Gorean Lifestyle as a whole, but rather ONLY for yourself & yours, as This Master speaks His mind for His.

Um... you don't have any courage scars (if that is your picture). I liked Nomads of Gor too, but Y/you A/aren't a T/tuchuk. When your role-play persona and your real life start to get hard for you to tell apart, it's time to stop role-playing for a while. My first girl is a level 68 Rogue too, but the first time she starts running through the house pretending that I can't see her becasue she's in steath mode, I'm pulling the plug on her everquest account.

Thanks for the laugh in return, though I'm not sure that making me laugh is what you intended.

< Message edited by edana -- 9/10/2005 9:55:42 PM >

(in reply to KeaDan)

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Post #: 164

RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/10/2005 10:21:26 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Tal Leonidas, and greetings edana,

Firstly, thank you for the last post. Once I finished roaring with laughter I re-read it and have a somewhat whimsical question for you. Leaving out the Courage scars on the face, would you consider the scars on any Lifestyle Gorean caused in real combat to be similar or valued as Courage Scars?

< Message edited by IronBear -- 9/10/2005 10:22:24 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to edana)

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Post #: 165

RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/11/2005 6:14:57 AM

KeaDan

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline

Tal Kaylen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaylen
Let's look at it that way. In the books, I cannot remember a time that a Gorean kajira had a "safeword." Please do correct me if I'm wrong on that specific point.

Point Conceded, :-) I have not seen it in print, in all honesty I do NOT consider the "safeword" the exclusive domain of the BDSMers (non-Goreans).

As you mention in a later post, "begging mercy", would "better" suit your idea of the Gorean Lifestyle.

quote:

...no I don't think that begging mercy is a "safeword".

As you said, when you beg for mercy it is HIS decision on whether or not to grant it. A safeword is one (at least in my opinion ..and I've been known to be wrong *gasp*) that when said it is agreed between the two parties that whatever activity is happening will stop because the -slave- feels a need to stop, which gives her the ultimate power, not the Master, as it should be in a gorean relationship.

Here is where it all gets GREY, for to Me a "Gorean-safeword", is a word used by My kajira (with implied permission), when Master is damaging his property without knowing it, IE; no outward signs, either body language or visible damage.
(In the last 5 yrs I recall deka{KD} using "it" a total less then 10, W/we did not know how it would be when the contract was created.)

In the case of My kajira, she came to me with per-existing medical condition(s), namely
Fibromyalgia for one. The "safeword" was a "best case senario" for U/us.
(FYI - FIBROMYALGIA BASICS)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaylen
It's very cute how you searched out my profile and assume that because I'm listed as a Domme and have subs that I know nothing about Gorean ways.

Thank you :-)

I stated it was not a fair question, as I saw your profile did not list anything about the Gorean Lifestyle.

Yes it was an "assumption", with out information to corroborate, a "best quess", so I decided to ask a question I was better informed you would know about.

quote:

One would like to ask thee, Kaylen, does your sub, oh that doesn't work.
If you were Gorean, would you give your kajirus a safeword?

Not a fair question, you can not know untill you have a WORKING knowledge about the subject.

Real Time "WORKING" knowledge One meant.

As it turns out :-), it was an fair assessment, as you state below, you have no R/T gorean community.

quote:

I actually know quite a bit and have been a part of the Gorean communities online ('cause we rednecks here in redneck central don't have a r/l gorean community) for 10 years.

In the interest of MY curiosity, have you ever been a "practicing" REAL TIME Gorean?

quote:

The reason I disagree with you on this point is because if one talks at length with their slaves, they will know how far to take them before it will reach a breaking point and a "need" for a safeword, and stop there. Thus eliminating the need for it. You are, of course, entitled to your opinions, just as I am entitled to mine. You are more than welcome to disagree with me, just as I disagree with you.

I still disagree on this point, as good as I am, it is impossible 100% of the time to be omnipotent where another being is involved, for the safety of My property I do the best I think I can, even if it means nessasary additions to "THE" Gorean Ethos.

Yes you are, as are we ALL, we do not have to agee on anything to be courteous. :-)

quote:

To answer your next question .. Complete trust is the knowledge that he will do nothing to harm her, that he knows her THAT WELL and not feeling the need for a safeword :)

You are entitled to your opinion.

quote:

... if you don't adhere to what CAN be adapted to the real world (no use of safewords, total power exchange, etc.) you are not living Gorean in every sense of the word. You are more living a BDSM lifestyle with either a little or a lot of Gorean flavor.

As I have said, I live the Gorean Ethos, I am a Gorean Master, if others, yourself included wish to believe otherwise, so be it enjoy, for I know who and what I am.
(shhh yes I go to BDSM munchs too, never hurts to learn :-) )

quote:

Once again, as I said .. You are free to label yourself in any way you choose. Just 'cause you say you are Gorean doesn't mean other Goreans will see you as such because of different traits that you leave out.

Or traits added for the greater good and protection of My property. :-)

*

_____________________________

For now be well

Kea
PROUD owner of deka{KD},
kneeling/sitting at his feet.
(even have a kajira pillow)

"To inflict pain for any reason other then to give pleasure is the only true perversion."

(in reply to Kaylen)

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RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/11/2005 7:35:39 AM

cellogrrlMK

Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
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This is in response to Leonidas' post from edana's account <G>

Sir, you and edana are the BEST representatives of the Gor community on these fora. Your explanations are clear-cut and precise, and edana's posts bloom with her contentment in this lifestyle. I wish other Goreans who post here could be like you; I think it would certainly diffuse some of the "hosility" (for lack of a better word) BDSM'ers feel from and for Goreans.

I don't feel the same towards KeaDan as you do... of course I don't, I'm not a Gorean!

It seems to me that he has combined both Gorean and BDSM lifestyles together in a way that pleases him. As far as I'm concerned, that's totally cool, but I can also understand your frustration.

One thing I am wondering about... KeaDan, according to your and deka's profiles, you live in Saskatchewan and she lives in Alberta. By my calculations that is 555 miles (or approximately 888 kilometers). Are you and she living together? Just wondering.

Happy Sunday,

cello

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RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/11/2005 8:15:00 AM

Phoenixandnika

Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline

Greetings,

I have been following this thread for a couple of days and parts of it truly confuse me,while other parts make me wonder if someone is having rouble seperating role-play from real life, while threads simply made me look to my Master and ask what the heck.

quote:

One did NOT say "...slave breeched it by running off."

Rather "if it was challenged." NOT by mine but by "another", or for that matter by society in general.

Hope that clears that PART up for thee Leonidas. :-)

end qoute

I am not speaking for a Free but I would presume from online "role-play "experience that He is speaking about a slave running off thus in his mind violating a slave contract.

quote:

Being a Gorean all of my Adult life, One is NO stranger to "ridicule", from some of the following; the vanilla GENERAL PUBLIC, SCA members, BDSMers, Gays, OLD Leather, NEW Leather, as well as just about every other "kink" group, including "goreans" themselves.

The 15 ehn of fame might be entertaining if One was seeking such, as to a "laughing stock", One would hold head HIGH, as a Gorean Master, PROUD at bringing to the PUPLIC light of day, the knowledge that there ARE those living the Gorean Lifesyle here on Urth!

end qoute

I have seen slaves speak in the 3rd person, however; I have NEVER seen a real life Gorean Master speak in 3rd person. I have always been under the understanding that 3rd person was used to remind a slave of her place. My other question is this why are you using role-play spellings, phrases, ect. in relation to real life? (Examples, Urth, ehn, Ko'lar, Brother, ect.)

quote:

1) As a Gorean Master it behooves One to ensure his property-to-be, is WELL informed in both the expectations and nature of a Gorean household as well as her duties and obligations to the Master and his property, BEFORE the steel encircles her neck, (the discussion & drafting of this contract ensures the slaves knowledge of all expected of her).

end qoute

I would ask again, is it normal for a real life Master to speak 3rd person?It is said that a Master aches to know the most intimate detail to the most mundain detail about his slave. That being said,as a slave I am to be pleasing, I am to serve, I am to obey, period. Are there days I do not want to do those things, yes I am human , however; those are my daily duties. There is no debate, no gray area, no question of my role with my Master. My duty is what ever HE asks, why? Simple, He is Master and I am slave.

A personal note, my collar did not make me my Master's slave it was simply an outward symbol of my slavery, of our relationship.

quote:

This has a GREAT Gorean sound to it Leonidas, the REALITY is, a girl may have, emotional, family, medical, mental, physical, physiological issues, to mention only a few, This Master IS CONCERNED about ALL these, if PRE-COLLAR consideration, discussion, exploration and notation of these, is what you refer to when you say "we don't negotiate the submission of a slave", BROTHER Leonidas, you are NO MORE Gorean then the BDSM community you say "We've taken a lot of heat for it over the years...".

end qoute

Calling another Master, "Brother" is another norm within gorean role-play. At this point I have to ask is anyone else having to re-read posts because a "Master" speaking 3rd person just throws you off?

qoute:

I would hope that you know the girl that you are collaring before you collar her. We don't negotiate the submission of a slave. Among Goreans, a slave doesn't get to submit with caveats, conditions, and addendums. She submits unconditionally. I'll say it again. Goreans don't contract with slaves, and we don't use safe-words. Yes, we've taken a great deal of heat about it from the BDSM community over the years, since contracting, negotiations, and safe-words are considered sacrosanct in their culture. If you've adopted their ways, that's fine.

end qoute

I would have to agree with Master Leonidas's statement. Before taking a collar a you should take the time to know each other intimately.I do not get to place conditions on my slavery, it is unconditional. Although I do often beg mercy from my Master, I do beg him to stop, however, he is not obligated to grant that mercy. I am simply obligated to please, serve, and obey even when I am not comfortable for what ever reason. As his property I know he would not put me in harms way. I know he would not intentionally do something to hurt me mentally or physcially. That is not me placing limits on my Master or our relationship that is my Master protecting His property.

quote:

KO`LAR

end qoute

Again this is a typical role-play spelling or onlineism although even in many role-play forums people expect you to spell it in English

quote:

Very true Leonidas, if ONLY we were talking about the kajira running off, rather then the validity of an INDENTURED SLAVE'S CONTRACT and the Governmental and/or Social "safety net", that imposes its protection upon a kajira's servitude to This Master, without asking either party.

end qoute

Slavery contracts, submission contracts, and Free Compantion contracts do not hold up to my knowledge in any court of law. I would actually love to see someone go into the police station and file charges against a slave for running away, for the simple reason that it would hilarious.

quote:

One will add, *the scars ripple upon his cheeks as he smiles*, YOU DO NOT, Leonidas speak for "U/us - O/our" Gorean Lifestyle as a whole, but rather ONLY for yourself & yours, as This Master speaks His mind for His.

end qoute

Again he is mixing role-play with real life.

I am wondering after reading this if he has only had online experience (role-play experience) or if he has had experience real life. I am also wondering if he has issues seperating role-play and real life, not an uncomman thing to see in many who role-play within Gorean forums. I am not sitting in judgement simply trying to understand his posts as I personally saw many role-play norms.

My other question, I have NEVER understood how someone can claim to be real life when they life so far away. Yes, I know many get depoloyed ect and have to be seperated from their slaves, Masters, ect. However' in my oinion that is different than simply claiming to be real life and NEVER having meet or been real life together. Do people really consider online as being real life?

Nika{Phoenix}
His Gothic Slave

< Message edited by Phoenixandnika -- 9/11/2005 11:44:53 AM >

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RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/11/2005 12:27:41 PM

Falonthas

Posts: 18
Joined: 2/1/2004
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from blinking through this posting shows simply one thing Keadan you have created your own set of parameters you call gorean which is your right

though you speak of things such as contracts and such that arent used by the majority who would claim themselves gorean your again entitled to run your house the way you so choose

but please dont insist on placing your views on others as we dont insist you follow our parameters
you have a variation
so be it and enjoy how you have created your example
though it works for you your emphasis on bdsm issues mixing simply doesnt mix with how others have their parameters set as a whole

we all have subtle variations im sure
but we all follow the simple basics

your basics and ours seem to not follow the same structure therefore perhaps you should see your situation as being unique and not the norm

just my two tarsks

(in reply to KeaDan)

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Post #: 169

RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/11/2005 6:25:34 PM

sesatW

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she bids greetings to the Masters and Mistresses out there. she is new here and will just sit back and read for now.

(in reply to Falonthas)

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Post #: 170

RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/11/2005 6:33:55 PM

Kaylen

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hello again, KeaDan, fancy meeting you here :) I have only a couple things to respond to from your post.

quote:

As you mention in a later post, "begging mercy", would "better" suit your idea of the Gorean Lifestyle.

no, what I said is that it fits the ideas set forth in the gorean books that r/l goreans try to live by.

quote:

In the interest of MY curiosity, have you ever been a "practicing" REAL TIME Gorean?

nope, and from what you say about the way you and yours live ... neither have you :)
not exactly according to the books. As I said before, and will say once more, from what you've said of your relationship, you are bdsm'ers with a lot of Gorean flavor. There's nothing wrong with that at all, it's what works best for you ;) but it isn't totally Gorean and I can definitely understand why people that DO live as completely Gorean as our world allows would take offense.

I'm very good with psychology, just because it interests me and I love it. I use it in my daily life, I counsel friends, etc. This doesn't make me a -practicing- Psychologist.. and I'm sure the real Psychologists would take offense if I claimed I was (not to mention the legalities of that particular stretching of the truth lol, which thankfully you don't have to worry about in claiming to be a Gorean)

I know those that -live- Gorean .. and there are no safewords involved in it, that is not the Gorean way.

You may keep trying to convince me and others of how you are a practicing Gorean Master with a gorean kajira, you may have convinced yourself even .. but those that know Gor and live Gor will never see it your way. You have much Gorean flavor .. but in r/l you are not living Gorean.

I've said all I will on the subject :) No need to beat a dead horse.

Be well :)
Kay

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Post #: 171

RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/11/2005 6:43:00 PM

sesatW

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if she may speak...there is NO TRUE Gorean way to live.......and if You beleive that You can then she is sorry to say but that is totaly untrue....in the books the girls beleived that if they did not serve with their heart and soul.they knew that they could be killed or sold at any moment....now in the "real" world.....BOTH are against the law.........what she thinks You mean is that You live Your life as close to the books as You can.......the books are fiction....and this is RL.......and things just don't or can not happen as they did in the books, and to beleive that that is how You live Your life, then to her that is a fantasy lifestyle that You are happy with and that is fine for You.... EVERYONE reads and takes from the books different things, and that is what makes us A/l different, they way W/we read and take to heart what W/we read. The way You see things, might be different from the way Mistress Kaylen sees things.....it doesn't mean that One way is better or "more Gorean" than the Other, it is just different.

(in reply to Kaylen)

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Post #: 172

RE: Finding a second kajira - 9/12/2005 3:10:22 AM

Leonidas

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quote:

Firstly, thank you for the last post. Once I finished roaring with laughter I re-read it and have a somewhat whimsical question for you. Leaving out the Courage scars on the face, would you consider the scars on any Lifestyle Gorean caused in real combat to be similar or valued as Courage Scars?

No, not really. The fictional Tuchuks engaged in ritual scarification, as do some real tribes here on earth. That kind of scar is literally a "status symbol" that the warrior earns the right to wear. Presumably, a warrior with more of these scars is more courageous and formidable in battle than one with less of them. The same couldn't really be said of a scar caused by a battle wound. Someone who comes back from battle unscathed may well be more courageous and formidable in battle than someone who didn't. In modern warfare, you can't really say that the guy who came back without a scratch is nececessarily a better warrior either. Anyone who has been in battle will tell you that what separates the two men more often than not is blind, dumb, luck.

That isn't to say that men who carry the scars of battle don't deserve our respect, for they surely do, but the scars that they carry don't mean the same thing as the ritual "courage scars" that you read about in Nomads.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

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Post #: 173

RE: Finding a second kajira - 10/4/2005 10:21:02 PM

SirSix72

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Joined: 7/14/2005
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Tal,

I know the feeling that you have searching for a second kajira, it seems an impossible task among all the kinky people in the world that find these forums to play upon,,, there are alot that want to take from what they have read on the net and apply it to themselves only when the application directly reflects their inner most desires,,,,this si the difficult part to be able to seperate the ones that do this and the ones that we are searching for,, I haven't as of yet found a good way to be able to seperate them among the BDSMr's,,,,, personally there are times I see this as becoming impossible but yet I strive to find the needle in the haystack so to speak,,,,wouldnt it be easy if most would just be honest with themselves and the rest of us to let us all knnow just what they want instead of trying to broaden their horizions,in turn keeping the lot of us confused as to what they are really looking for,,play,,LTR,,or just someone whom enjoys roleplaying to be a bit more kinky in thier sexual desires that they have......I think a little bit of honesty on everyones part would be quite refreshing,,,,and a general good idea so that we can all find what we are looking for,,,but there we go again with other discussions that I have either been involved in or just flamed out about,,,,,,,the ideas of a category dosent seem to fit others opinions or the textbook ideals,,,,,,anyways good luck

Master Six

(in reply to gtpmaster61)

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