Najakcharmer
Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: xBullx
I sure do appreciate your base prespective of human inetraction it helps keeps things grounded. In other words it helps get us past the fantasy in our imaginations. [...] I hope you know that while I am trying to understand and apply my Gorean nature, I am surely not attempting to discount my general human nature. To be a Gorean is to have a specific philosophical viewpoint; while you may have to alter/amend a few small details to correspond with the ideals in a practical sense, the lifestyle can be rather explicite.
Thank you! That certainly seems to be the primary difference between living Goreans and the cyber-wannabe crowd that keeps popping up and causing you guys unwarranted embarrassment.
quote:
You see, what you keep describing in my opinion is the Gorean free companion. In a thread in the General BDSM section a while back I explained to the folks there how in the eyes of this Gorean, the dominant/submissive table of measure is actually effected by the general traits of both parties. In the novels Norman explains it as being as simple as the more dominant the male the more submissive will become the female and by the same token the more submissive the female, the more dominance that is inspired in the male. That would seem rather available to their genetic codes.
The perception of who is dominant, who is submissive, who is leading, who is following and who is engaging in a cooperative strategy that involves none of these elements can change drastically depending on the lens through which you are looking at it. Males tend to be hardwired for direct conflict, competition and combat. That is a logical strategy of the XY chromosone to perpetuate itself by "living on the edge", eg, risking it all for the right to breed, even if it means death. The typically male-wired brain performs very poorly in comparison with the typical female-wired brain when it comes to being skilled in the longer term, less risky survival strategies, specifically cooperation, communication, building strong reciprocal social networks, resolving and avoiding conflict. The typically female-wired brain performs significantly worse in comparison to her masculine counterpart in some of the specific skills that optimize conflict, combat and competition.
From those biological facts, very different personal and emotional interpretations and perceptions may arise. From the male perspective, he is dominant because he can win at conflict, combat and competition. She is a poor, limited thing who cannot hope to match his skills, and because she (or more accurately, her ability to reproduce and transmit his genes) is his primary biological motivation, the reason he seeks dominance and mastery in the first place, she must be cared for and protected at all costs.
From the female perspective, the male is a magnificent animal, proud and vainglorious, but mentally limited. He cannot speak or even see the subtle language that she and all of her kind use to communicate, or his attempts are those of a backward child at best. He is a simple thing and easy to manipulate, though she may not consciously consider her attempts at communication and cooperation with him to be manipulative. It is simply her language, and any normal person (eg, another woman) would understand with clarity and respond in the same way. She is not emotionally invested in "winning" or "competing" or "dominance" so much as in forming powerful cooperative relationships where everyone's needs are met, so when a man comes along who *is* emotionally invested in those things, her response may be akin to a mother showing a chess board to her six year old. He moves the pieces around randomly and aggressively, not really knowing the subtle rules of the game, and proudly annouces, "Me win! Me win!" She smiles indulgently and lets him, since it makes him happy. From his perspective, the little boy just won the chess game. From her perspective, they're not playing chess. But he can go to school the next day and announce to all his friends that he is the winner game if he wants to. She doesn't mind since it makes him happy and strengthens their relationship. She'll do essentially the same thing for her husband when he gets home from work and needs to feel like the big man.
You cannot lose a game you aren't playing. If the game you are playing has rules that are different for each person, it's quite possible for both people to know in their hearts that they have won - and also to firmly believe that they are the one who makes the rules. A relationship that one partner perceives and experiences as dominant/submissive may be perceived and experienced in a completely different way by the other partner, as well as by outsiders depending on their perspective. I would definitely not be quick to categorize general male-female relationships as male dominant. Because of the different strategies of genetic transmission for males and females, men are more likely to overtly believe and state that they are the dominant partner, the provider and protector, the decision maker. More females are likely to experience their role completely outside of the win/lose dominant/submissive paradigm. They don't play that game and are not emotionally invested in "winning" or "dominance" so much as in cooperation and reciprocal relationships. That isn't their native strategy. But since it is their beloved partner's, it's okay with them if he badly wants to "win" the game they aren't playing.
quote:
And yes, I would venture to say that this could apply in alternative sexual roles. I just have trouble looking at it from that side. And while I am open and accepting of such, for the most part that isn’t a primary Gorean focus.
It does. Understanding that which is outside your culture and especially that which is foreign to your own personal brain wiring is an extremely difficult task. Most people are very poorly suited to it.
You can speak to general trends in male brain wiring versus female brain wiring, but when it comes to the individual, all bets are completely off. Many men are socially perceptive and good at communication, and many women are fiercely competitive in sports and have excellent spatial coordination. Culture and upbringing plays a role as well as a wide range of variance in individual neurobiology. People are just plain wired differently, and that's also a normal part of biology and evolution.
quote:
In libe with what you said, in the finest strands of our DNA I doubt it matters whether a female is slave or free, if she is the best suited in our rudimentary urges, we would want to possess her, keep her, protect her and even honor her as the provider of the next generation. That is after all what we claimed a cave for, to provide her shelter. Without her men would prefer to sit outside by an open fire under the stars with a beer in hand.(lol)
Which is why there can be some conflict when it comes to how a man keeps his kajira. Fundamentally she is a woman, and a million years of evolution is telling him that she must be cherished, protected and even honored or revered. When culture argues with genetic imperative, the outcome will always be in question.
As to the beer, it's quite arguable that you're looking at the original impetus for agriculture, human domestication and the shift away from a hunter/gatherer or nomadic lifestyle. Inspiring, isn't it? 
quote:
Can you imagine having a law where it is legal for a woman to willing surrender her freedoms never to be allowed priviledge to them on her own again? But we are denying a part of society their true calling, a natural slave is as hard wired as a lesbian or gay man.
Slaves are slaves. I wouldn't argue that point. Both slaves and masters are relatively rare, in comparison to dominants and submissives, but they can be found in a cross-section of pretty much all walks of life and all orientations.
quote:
It is a Gorean ideal that women could be plucked from the high bridges of the city by Tarnsmen. This is in actuality a parable of sorts. If a woman knew the danger and exposed herself to it anyway, well it would seem she was asking for it. In her heart the girl that is not afraid to face reality knows who she is. She knows if she is independent or if she is a submissive female wanting to stand beside a man or if she is a slave needing and in fact aching for the hand of the master.
Sometimes you just gotta get where you're going, and some things are worth risking your life or your freedom for because it's what you believe in. I've put myself in danger many times to follow my personal calling, and I'll be doing it again and again either until the odds finally catch up to me or until I'm too old and feeble to do it any more. It's not unusual to wind up dead or maimed in this line of work. A lot of my colleagues are missing body parts and several have died or come very close to death just in the past year. We don't have high bridges with tarnsmen lurking, but if we did, and if those bridges were the fastest way to get me to where I was seriously needed, I'd be using them, and woe to anyone who gets in my way when I'm on an emergency call. A woman may put herself into danger for many different reasons, and most of them probably don't have a damn thing to do with secretly wanting to be enslaved.
quote:
Is it not obvious how a girl will be self destructive and miserable without her mind and body under the complete control of the master. For crying out loud, look at the Brittany Spears chick, tell me that she shouldn’t have long ago been subjected to the whip of a man. She is lost when given her own choices.
It's a nice romantic ideal that the perfect relationship can fix someone who is basically broken, emotionally disturbed, mentally ill or fundamentally immature, but it doesn't always work so well in the real world. I generally advise my male dominant buddies to stay far away from messed-up chicks who have huge personal issues and are basically self-destructive, self-hating and self-sabotaging. There is more wrong with these ladies than any relationship can fix. I don't think they make particularly good property. It's true they might benefit some from what is essentially re-parenting, preferably along with some competent psychiatric care, but how do you benefit from broken property?
quote:
Nature is also occasionally capable of an awww shit; how else can you explain the Platypus. Thanks again for you unique perspective in things large and small.
Male platypus are venomous. Their mating spurs contain a hallucinogenic venom that affects humans as well as female platypus. That's their reproductive strategy. ;)
Thank you again for sharing your perspective.
|
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 
Profile
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread