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The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull


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The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/29/2008 8:57:28 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Tal Goreans,

Here it is as promised…. Since it is the political season let me begin by offering a small disclaimer. The following comments are simply the opinion of the fellow named Bull, they are in no way to be seen as Gorean gospel, affidavits of John Norman or views of any Collarme official. You may take these opinions as they are; simply words on a page or if you choose to you may wish to find exalted meaning and scope within their unending logic. No one is forcing you to read on, but in the event you do, I wish you happy comprehension.

I’ve decided if you guys are determined to talk about slaves at every turn, we need to get straight, just what is a kajira in the eyes of a Gorean.

Ahhh, the slave; what a wondrous and valued creature. (coughs and spits) What the kind of bullshit statement is that to come from the lips of a Gorean? It sure seems to me that we overuse the term slave in this society, whether we call ourselves Gorean or not it seems to be for some a form of flattery for someone to say that they own a slave; others despise the term and call it unjust, degrading or malicious, while others have absolutely no real idea what the hell I’m talking about.  My concern is the “Gorean” that is unknowingly or perhaps might be in denial of his female coddling nature.

Come now my pussy whipped puppets of western society, surely you don’t expect me to see you as a Gorean all the while you are coddling and pampering your precious slave girls? We do all understand the difference between the term slave and the submissive woman, do we not? At least it would seem as Goreans we should understand the Gorean context of it. For fuck sakes Norman goes into massively repetitive detail over the idea of the kajira as viewed through the eyes of a Gorean. In saying this I’m not implying the legality of the term either; I’m simply pointing at the way a Gorean will view the kajira.

I’m not going to go into the books and dig out exact quotes; others of you are better suited for that superficial import. I’m going to point to the facts that those of you that have read the books will recall.

I have been watching you all carry on about your precious slaves that you would never share and that no man could make you, that are valued property, that they should be………..blah, blah, blah………. Who the fuck would want to share you master, I mean slave with you? She's just an animal, a beast to use at a man's whim. Not a valued companion, just a slave, only a slave and where she came from ther are more. (Now for all you BDSM folks that are getting your panties in a wad at the indignant way I am speaking to everyone calm the fuck down, this is directed at the “Goreans” of the crowd.)

Now if you are one of those out there that is attempting to get it right, good for you. I agree 100 percent it is damn hard to shake off years, even decades of confusing misinformation as to your "true" natural dispositions. Here's the deal; I am just a little miffed at the overuse of the term slave. To just call a submissive a slave is a bit ridiculous. There are a few ways to own a woman and have her know it, collar or not. If you are capable of such you know what I am talking about.

There are natural slaves out there, they are however not as common as one might hope. They would never deny that they are in fact meant to serve not man, but rather men. They are whole when men around them find them pleasing, all men. Not that all men literally own them, but rather that their nature and efforts are own by the nature of uncompromising men. They in fact yearn to belong to such men. They didn’t have to be told this; they were born to live it. We have seen these girls, but sadly enough they aren’t littering our streets.

The fact is many of the so called slaves you see everyday are simply horny princess types having a romantic fantasy and are allowing you to play along. They offered their consent to it, remember.

Let’s view a Gorean comment about the slave. The kajira is absolutely docile, totally obedient and fully pleasing. She is allowed NO resistance. Now that is close to being a quote from one of the books if I recall. That would seem to be a Gorean tenant then wouldn’t you say? But in fact view the hoards of “sluts” that don’t begin to adhere to this calling. And here’s the worst part, look at all the “Masters” that stand for this less than desirable behavior in their females; and when a man is called on this, he tends to spew something about how he wants her to be like this, that this behavior is what pleases him. Bullshit, we all know that conditions have been made, met and put into act. They might be unspoken conditions but all the same they exist.

In the end I have witnessed very few slaves around me, I have seen many potential slaves, but the distressing problem isn’t the lack of slave meat. It’s the lack of men that would master; not just the slave's body, but rather the woman as a whole. Master the woman and the body is not but a willing commodity. She will know herself owned and will love you for it. She will surrender her completely. And in that your wish will finally be her command.

The majority of you out there are labelling your very submissive girlfriend as your slave. What would Rask of Treve say about that?

Now if this post bit your ass, you might want to ask yourself, “why is that?”  If this post didn’t apply to you it will just be a Gorean man stating his opinions and at that nothing out of the ordinary. But if this post offended you; then asking yourself “why” is a legitimate question.

While I could say more and most likely will, I’ll save some mega bytes for the disenchanted masses that await their chance to rebut.

Live well,

Bull

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/29/2008 9:06:40 PM   
aeleberaNB


Posts: 690
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Alberta, Calgary, Canada
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Bull:

this was an excellent post and i thank You for sharing Your thoughts with us. i look forward to reading more in the future.

wishing You well,
aeleberaNB

_____________________________

He is the Master, i am His slave, His property, His muse to do with as He pleases, when and where He pleases. Trust in thy Master as HE knows what is best for His property.

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/29/2008 10:03:44 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Howdy Ty,

  So, absolutely 100% on the money, you are.

Infact, ALL the coddling and indulging and pampering should be saved for the FW...particularly, *this* FW...Me...hehe
*grinz and winks*

Much care,
Babs

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/29/2008 10:12:05 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		Tongue in cheek or not, I think Babs echos yon truth.

Even more shocking, was the fact that some slaves like being shared (mine certainly did.)  Not that it's entirely what it's about....

Still, there's a little logic to one who keeps a lock and key on their property.  If I owned a $200,000 racehorse, you can bet I'd probably never dig a boot into it's stirrup.  Such creatures belong in the capable, skilled hands of trained professionals.

So, as a public service, for those who own slaves with priceless inner workings, I suggest you stop risking their welfare and well being, and send them to the care of someone who is skilled, qualified, and proven to provide years of capable maintenance; Stephan's House of Sluts.

The line starts to the left

Stephan
Owner, Proprietor


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 12:18:46 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		*laughs at...Stephans House of Sluts*

Hi there Stephan,


  You know, that sounds like the makings of an awsome cat house you could open in Las Vegas, aye, aye?
*laughs softly*

Take care,
Babs

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 5:22:45 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Howdy Stephan,

Well that is the typical response I would expect in regards to those that think, "my slave is to precious to use hard". Now I eluded to the example of the latest coddle thread, the one about loaning out your wench, but this is only one example of coddling the girl, and well short of the baord scope of my point here.

Now in response to your racehorse theory; any animal is only worth what another man is willing to pay for it and as far as that goes, if a horse was so fragile that I couldn't mount up and put it through its paces I doubt it would be worth much in the way of 200 copper coins with the face of Lincoln on them. So coddle your "high dollar" horse if you will, but again you made my point quite well, thanks.

You see we all have our own idea of value and while I would respect your right to lock your wench in your personal pleasure garden if she was your favorite; to publically announce that you would keep a woman this way is problematic on several levels. First, she might forget her station; second, you might forget her station and third, we both know that there are many men out there trying to lure females to their "cat" house using these bullshit lines that they will love, protect and care for their slave. Look at the fool our Australian friend appears to be due to his mouthy and undisciplined wench.  A slave get's from her master that which she earns. She is owed nothing and given less. If she has the ability to endear herself to her owner and make herself that prized animal, she might find favor. But to openly treat and talk about a slave as if she was some wonder-beast is rather un.............Gorean. At least so far as the books demonstrate.

While I don't proomote abuse or neglect, I do promote actually mastering your wench and not simply barginning with her. We both know that bargins fade and soon enough a real man will catch the eye of a conditional slave.

I'm sure what you have works fine for you and since you aren't a Gorean, I guessing my post really shouldn't matter much to you.

Use her well or wear her dress,

Bull

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 6:46:17 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings Master

quote:

She's just an animal, a beast to use at a man's whim. Not a valued companion, just a slave, only a slave and where she came from ther are more.


In many slave keeping societies including the onces that the Gor books are inspired by, there are records of owners finding companionship whit their slaves. Sure i own my cat, she is a companion non the less. Even if one is a slave do not mean one can not be appreciated.

quote:

To just call a submissive a slave is a bit ridiculous. There are a few ways to own a woman and have her know it, collar or not. If you are capable of such you know what I am talking about.


i agree Master, a submissive is not a slave. A slave is somone that is owned. But to me, not being appreciated or valued do not make me feel more owned, it would make me feel unhappy. To again use my cat as an example. i own her, i can give her away, sell her, take her to the vet and have her put down, she is mine, i even have a contract on it, she would be no more mine if i did not value her and did not treat her as a valued companion and the same to my mind whit a slave.

quote:

The fact is many of the so called slaves you see everyday are simply horny princess types having a romantic fantasy and are allowing you to play along.


That is me, can somone please pass me my crown? :P

quote:

Let’s view a Gorean comment about the slave. The kajira is absolutely docile, totally obedient and fully pleasing.


That the slave is absolutely docile is said several places in the books, but when one read the books and see the slaves there, docile is not what i would describe most of them whit. Most of them are fiery, passionate woman, that learn to, or discovers a need to submit to men, but they are not docile. It depend off course what one put in the word docile. When describing animals at least docile can be used to describe an old fat cat that hardly ever moves or takes interest in anything, letting you pick him up and pet him as you please and not really caring what happens as long as he get cuddles and food.

quote:

And here’s the worst part, look at all the “Masters” that stand for this less than desirable behavior in their females; and when a man is called on this, he tends to spew something about how he wants her to be like this, that this behavior is what pleases him. Bullshit, we all know that conditions have been made, met and put into act. They might be unspoken conditions but all the same they exist.


i respectfully disagree Master. i do not think every man want to same from his female. i am outspoken, far from docile. i am strange, eccentric and some would say a little insane, i once asked my Master if he wanted me to change and he said no, i am the way he want me. So while i would do my best to be pleasing if you wisted Master Aswad's home Master, there are always a chance you would not like me much, but Master like the way i am, and you like another type of girl Master might find boring and so on. i do not think that every man want a cookie cutter girl that are so and so and so described whit two lines of text from a book.

i also think that many that claim to be slaves or are labeled so are not in fact salves, to be a slave one must be owned, but to my mind, one can be owed in more than one way. i do not see that a man care for his slave, or consider her a precious belonging make her less a slave and him less a Master.

May i wish you well








_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 7:42:57 AM   
ghitaPVH


Posts: 1363
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Bull,
Greetings Master Stephan,

I'm sorry, I just had to jump in on your race horse analogy. Where I live is often reffered to as the "horse capitol of the world". Its plastered on signs all around the county and brodcast like its supposed to be a compliment. But to me, what it really is is a county full of expensive lawn ornaments. Some years back we had quite a few thoughobred farms around, even produced a derby winner at one point, but anyone who's into racing with any reguality knows that it takes many many years of breeding to come up with a decent racer, and there are probably tens of thousands of thouroughbreds around with absolutly no use. They arent good for anything but racing, and maybe one in a thousand has even a chance to make it past the local racing circuit. They are high strung, irritating, persnickity creatures who have to be fed at exactly the right time each day, with exactly the right mixture of grains and hay (oh gads dont feed them that regualr hay either, its gotta be that expensive imported hay too) and they have to have their teeth and feet looked after weekly casue they have to be in such tip top condition or they wont run. And then race day does finally come around, they may just decide they dont feel like running. They're so worked up and stubborn they might go backwards, or refuse to line up, then rearup in the gate and kick they jockey sitting on the wall and bust out the side and run over the fence and break a leg and well. wouldnt you know. That priceless creature you refused to socialize and work with for fear or ruining its spirt is useless now. It cant race, it was never trained to be anything but a yard ornament. It now sits in someones front yard looking pretty and gobling up thousands of dollars of expensive grains and hay cause if you dont keep feeding it the way it insists on the blasted thing bloats up and gets sick on you.

Now, down the road from me a little ways, hanging out in the middle of a cow pasture. Ive got a mare with such a mixed pedigree no one around could tell you what she is. Looks kinda like a quarterhourse with an overgrown head and a shaggy tail. All these thouroughbred farms around here with their expeisive trainers and licensed breeders and "experts" would look at her and roll their eyes and tell me she's "useless". But any UM in the neighborhood can walk out in the feild and lead her to a fence and hop right up on her (dont try that with a thoughrobred, you'll likely have a trip to the emergency room on your hands). When she's done being entertainment for the UMs she'll just about herd cattle on her own, no one telling her what to do or even with a saddle or a harness on her back (now, she doesnt always herd them where you want them to be, she tends to herd them where she wants them to be..but she does it quite well!), and after a day of herding cattle into pens, she'll hop right into a trailer with no fight and come over and pull a plow if the tracotr is broken (yep, I've tried it...much rather have the tractor, but darn it if you cant actually plow a feild with a horse, who'd have thought). Oh, and if someone doesnt get out to feed her at the same time every day, she might bang her bucket a small bit, but she doesnt get ill and go into fits. And she does all these wonderful things on cheap coastal hay and a bag of sweet feed a week.


Now...you tell me who's the better animal? The "priceless" thouroughbred you just spent years thowing your money and time into for a one in a million chance of breeding a derby winner? So "priceless" all it did was sit around and get pampered in a field? Or the raggedy mare who'll do anything for anyone and doesnt complain about a batch of wet hay and actually saves you money in the long run because of all the actual work you can get out of her?

Sorry....personal pet peeve of a girl raised in horse country but secretly adores cattle..now cattle..theres a great animal..I better not get started though.....


Now, I know Im not one to be talking, not only because im not Gorean, but because lately Ive become one of those girls Master Bull keeps talking about being coddled (I hate it too honestly, but, thats for another topic). But anyway, I just hoped I could shed some light on the other side of the analogy, maybe rework someones way of thinking of "priceless".....

ghita~

_____________________________

Don't expect anything of me and I promise I'll never disappoint you.

"The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything. --Nietzsche"

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 8:25:00 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Hello wench,

Well, I guess I should thank you for substantiating my point rather well. Your response demonstrates quite well what degree of slavery that Aswad holds you in and that while every man is entitled to hold his wench in whatever form of slavery he wishes, it is also the right of other men to past judgment on his abilities.

So apart from the fact I doubt we are reading from the same novels or at the very least are interrupting the text from separate universes, it seems you have little clue as to what the fuck I’m talking about.

Oh, I suggest you shave, wash and eat the cat. I love eating pussy too. It tastes so good.

Have a nice day.

Bull


_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 8:36:37 AM   
Jahnaca


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Bull

Going to start off by saying I don’t disagree with your post, in fact I highly agree with most of it.  Though I think  what your saying is a on paper type thing and this phenomenon is not strictly an “on Earth” deal either.  I believe that the source material has much to say about “book Goreans” and their on paper vs practice idea about slavery.

Off the top of my head I don’t recall a single book that doesn’t contradict some of the notions you have presented.  Many Gorean men didn’t share their property.  There are terms such as “her price is steel” “wars have been fought to get back a slave” “love master/slave” etc.  There is even a little known quote regarding some masters willingly wearing the “collar” in the privacy of the bedroom.  I am just paraphrasing some of these terms as I don’t have quotes in front of me at the moment.    We see Gorean men even Tarl himself not “share” his property, we see him playfully chiding the Kamchuk’s affection for his slave, we see him further good naturely acknowledge the jealous possession of another man’s slave.  This is not limited to Tarl either, but other male characters in the books can contradict the on paper definition you presented.

Where does that leave us?  Facing our own humanity I guess.  That is the thing, one man’s jealous possession of a sport’s car is another man’s “it’s just a car.”  We simply can not predict or control the emotional responses people have.  I believe there is even a portion in one of the books where Samos chides Tarl’s emotional attachment and possession of a slave only to be told, “just you wait” later Samos found himself jealously possessing a wench he felt fond of.  I think that aspect of ownership is often dealt with in the series.  Therefore to indicate that emotional attachment and or possessiveness to property may not be Gorean is to ignore a large portion of the very source material we happen to embrace as a guideline.

quote:

It’s the lack of men that would master; not just the slave's body, but rather the woman as a whole. Master the woman and the body is not but a willing commodity. She will know herself owned and will love you for it. She will surrender her completely. And in that your wish will finally be her command.


That is a key element here, not so much sharing or not sharing, cherishing or not cherishing or even jealous possession thereof.  There is mastery, good mastery and excellent mastery.   This is often illustrated in the books.

quote:

The majority of you out there are labeling your very submissive girlfriend as your slave. What would Rask of Treve say about that?


What would Rask say about this.  Let’s look at him, the man who never paid for a wench until he found the one.  Yes technically he didn’t “pay” he simply tossed a sack full of coins down as he swept his wench up out of the hands of Tarl but hey that is a play of semantics really.  I also believe he spoke quite intimately with this wench, didn’t share her either.  The story is actually quite a love story when you stop and think about Rask of Treve and his wench.  So what would he say?  I quite think he might judge based on mastery and the level of excellence rather then some of the qualities discussed in your OP.

You know Bull there is a lot of talk in the books about slaves being animals and treated like chattel and all that other good stuff.  Even book reality paints another picture when human attachment comes into play.  I believe it is that level of humanity portrayed in the books that makes it real and enticing.  Yes where emotional attachments did not exist slaves could be treated in the non personal commodity like manner depicted on paper, in most of the focused plots, though,  that is farther from the truth.  There are slaves of men and there are also slaves of a man.  This is also clearly exemplified in the source material, in point of fact the of a man is shown more then any other type of focused slave.  Yes she will serve as deemed, but her heart lays with a given man, in his possession, in his arms slavery doesn’t have literal chains or legal title it simply exists.

I think what makes it difficult for us here on Earth is the lack of a legal system for us to point to a person and say slave.  Therefore we have to compensate by trying to create parameters, rules, regulation and definition.  We often get to caught up in that we forget to simply be.  Kind of like your other thread.  I am going to give you an example on how this muddies up things for us.  

Some of us own pets.  Yup own pets.  Not all of us treat our pets in the same way.  Some are pampered princesses and others, working beasts.  Some cherished as a loving family member, others, just are there.  All are owned and we don’t question it.  We don’t try and define what is and what is not owned.  It just is.  We don’t create rules and expectations and then judge and test others ownership based on this.  We might say that is a good owner and that one sucks, but we don’t argue ownership.  See how easy it is for dogs, but not so easy with humans?

On a personal level, about 3 years I took ownership of a puppy.  I wanted to be a good owner so I started to get information to help me succeed.  There is this fellow called The Dog Whisperer who had some pretty neat stuff to say so I bought his book.  As I read it I found a lot of things started to click in regards to what we know as “ownership” that even transcended dogs, but rather what we call slaves.  It’s not that we can’t love and pamper our four legged beasts he says, rather we have to balance that with actual leadership.  Being the pack leader.  Be their leader and they will follow you.  He further stated in regards to how some people own dogs, that we forget they are dogs, we don’t acknowledge their instinctual responses and needs as canines and as who they are in personality.  I believe you have touched on this in your OP, perhaps that is where we should start in our exploration.

Bull you have a good starting reference going here, I think it deserves exploration, unfortunately some of your contentions are easily dismissed by the source material alone.  I believe the subject is very complex with no easy answer forth coming.  Are we prepared to face the challenge of tackling it, intelligently?

Jahna

_____________________________

Mass-produced human beings are attractive only to those who expect to be their benevolent mass producers. John Norman

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 9:04:21 AM   
Terrah


Posts: 372
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		Tal Bull, greetings ghita!

Ok, now my two cents worth of horse flesh since I raise and breed them, train them and ride the little boogers.. oh and yes after some 35 years I consider myself to be an expert too..  :)

Bull a good choice to make in your assessment of a slave and a horse, and ghita you too. Yes there are those who are choice marvels, slaves and horses. I do marvel a girl who is so slave she can take it all, just like the mare you have in your field ghita, so fine to just jump on and ride, obeys wonderfully etc.

Yes there are horses I would not allow anyone to ride but me.. there are instances where I can definitely say without any hesitation, nope you cannot ride that horse. Let me explain and I'll also relate it to a slave as well. I have a horse called Mocha, he's a beautiful buckskin (like Matt Dillions horse for those of you who don't know what one is) he is not trained but a large animal and could be ruined should the wrong person get on him and try to ride, it's dangerous for the person who doesn't know what to do, and it's dangerous for the horse as he will flip out and can't handle it, and also teaching him the wrong things at the wrong times. I am very precise in what I do and when I do it when it comes to training, be it horses or a slave. My methods have worked well for me for several years and I do not dispute there are probably other ways to do it, but it is what works best for me. Now ya'll are both talking about horses or girls that are trained. That is what I got out of it.

Take a slave who was one of them thar submissive slaves, put her into a Gorean setting whether she knew or not what to do, and she'll freak out every time, she's is not trained to be pleasing to all people yet,  now you could do it the hard way and make her obey, she would because she is a slave, or teach her how to behave first and make the experience so much more for not only her, and her mental state of health which we all want is it not? I'm not saying it would hurt a girl to be used at all, depends on how one does it I think. I don't know I am not coddling slaves, I am saying that training one is key for her to work out as a slave, much the same as training a horse that has never been ridden before.

Yes I have papered horses, not thorough breds, but paints, I breed them for gentleness and intelligence and overall appearance. I must be great at it as I get great color and they are always gentle, and they are smart. I can't compare them to the racing crowd, as those horses are screwy anyhow, and they are bred for something only one in ten thousand get, the true racing nature. (probably higher than that, just saying it not frequent)

Depends on whatcha want as with everything, the more work you put into it the more you get out of it. We also have to remember with horses it depends on what ya know and how you can put that knowledge into action, the same with slaves. The better you know people the more you can train your slave to do as you want her to. Now ya'll may disagree with that, but I have found that training any animal to be of value and if you want them to do something you have to let them know what it is you are trying to do and how best to teach them to perform as told.

So much for my two cents....

I love the post Bull and your response too ghita, I chuckled at them both, way to go.

I wish ya'll well..

Terrah


_____________________________

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyhow." (John Wayne)

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 9:20:49 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		G'mornin Bull,

Rest assured, my comment to Babs wasn't the only one intended tongue in cheek; on this topic, we're of one mind.

I don't fault any slave with the talons to control her owner.  If a man might be so easily lead by his nose or toes and find contentment in it, I wish him the best.  I won't judge if it's Gorean or not; there were weak Goreans as well as strong in the book.  I don't take the time to tap a man on the shoulder at a bar, and say "obviously, your pussywhipped; mind if I take your slut home and show her what it means to be with a real man?"  The men who most need to grow a pair tend to be the least aware of this fact (and the loudest, and most shrill in defense to boot.)  On the other hand, I don't think a slave needs to be shared, to remember her place.  I think, like the belt, or the sharp gaze, it's one of many tools that can be used. 

I've shared my slave with men I respect, and intend to do so again in the near future.  Not every slave was designed to be shared right away or ever.  It has more to do with the actual creature than the concept of sharing for me, though.  I've owned cats that are similar; some are quite friendly, and some run and hide from everyone but me.  I don't think it's important to change the nature of the creature, so much as make the best use of the creature I have and ensure that I don't own a creature who doesn't suit my needs. 

Live and use your sluts well,

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Terrah)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 9:22:04 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7259
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Good afternoon One and all J

Good afternoon Bull

It was not until my owner passed away that I even became familiar with message boards. Up until then, I had no need to go outside the relationship to ask for advice, get opinions, or to see how others were living their own lives. I admit, I was pretty shocked at some of the things that I heard from people; at how they were treated in their relationships ( or not treated for that matter); I actually had a space of time there that I thought there was something wrong with me because I could find no one whose ideas and opinions coincided with mine. All too often, over the years, and even still now; one of my favorite responses on a message board is simply ‘do what feels right for you’; a response used to avoid inflaming the masses J

There was a post not too long ago on the submissive board about slave’s rights; it was one of the first time’s I have ever spoken freely without thought of how the ‘backlash’ would be…and the backlash was quite harsh lol. There is another post going on now about ‘the characteristics of property’; again, it is one that I spoke pretty freely in. The point is though, that in each of these threads; the concept and definitions were so far apart from person to person that it was impossible for anyone to have the same idea or opinion. ( Ok, I admit, I get so tired of using the phrase ‘everyone is different’ when trying to understand others and where they are coming from L ) Even here, within the Gorean forum itself; the ideas and opinions of each person are so different, that it is impossible to agree on anything at times. I have an easier time here, understanding a person, when they are closely mimicking the books; because then, I know almost exactly where they stand on something…like property, and slaves rights ( or lack thereof J ), etc.

Perhaps because my exposure was so limited over the years, I can not understand the…different ways of relationships. I don’t know.

I do know that I scratch my head when I hear a man say how much he pampers, spoils, loves, cherishes his partner. And I do know that I am even more confused when I come to understand that his partner is called his slave. I am flabbergasted when they go on to say how equal they are; and how much of a partnership they have. And I am simply floored when I hear of a ‘slave’ who tells her ‘master’ what he is going to do.

I don’t know. Perhaps I am just so far out of the loop of relationships anymore that I don’t understand how they should be.

On the other hand, if that is how they should be, I can honestly say that I am glad I am not in a relationship lol.

Perhaps, because my ideas of slavery are so archaic; they will never be understood by others; or accepted. But, that is what I know, and that is what I learned, and that is the only way for me.

Girlfriends are cherished. Wives are cherished. Um’s are cherished. Slaves, if we are lucky…are merely thought of pleasantly once in awhile J

LOL I don’t think I said anything of importance; but that’s ok. It felt good to talk J

Ya’ll have a wonderful day

mist

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.
Real people are not perfect.
Perfect people are not real.

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 9:25:09 AM   
ghitaPVH


Posts: 1363
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings again, Master Bull
Greetings Mistress Terrah

I agree with you one hundred percent than an inexperianced rider on a green horse is a good way to ruin a good horse and injure a rider. I took Master Bull and Master Stephann (and I apologize if I assumed wrongly) to both be talking about girls who were already at the point the men wanted them to be at. But then there are also those occasionall horses (and girls) who really dont need all that much training. And so I wonder, at what point is the effort needed to train..no longer worth the outcome? Which is where my opinion lies with thoughrobreds. No matter what, that animal is going to come out of its mama high strug and arrogant and going to take a lot of energy, money, and time to become a decent riding horse. Sure its fast and looks flashy, but is that one in a thousand chance of getting a return for your efforts really worth the time? Now, Id bet that more often than not, one of your paint ponies stays calm, takes to a good days worth of training, and learns to handle fairly quickly. Granted, you'll need to know what your doing, but it wont take you anywhere near the effort with that paint to get a well rounded horse. So, like Master Bull mentioned...you're already starting with an animal (or girl) who's already naturally more compliant.

_____________________________

Don't expect anything of me and I promise I'll never disappoint you.

"The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything. --Nietzsche"

(in reply to Terrah)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 9:26:30 AM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1711
Status: offline 		Hello Bull,

You have given your own opinions, yours alone, you made the disclaimer that this is how YOU feel, yet, I see it is being challenged.   Ahh well, I'm sure you expected as much.   Always amazes me, no matter how many times  a person will adamantly state...this is how I personally feel, someone comes along to tell you, you are wrong, and then WHY you are wrong.

I never see it fail.  

Take care,

Liz

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 9:27:13 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		ghita,

Yep, you were a little mistaken pretty girl; but you have excellent company.

Liz,

you quoted me; rest assured, I agree with Bull here lock, stock, and barrel.  I think my pale attempt at humor was probably as effective as a trampoline made of tissue paper.

Stephan

< Message edited by Stephann -- 1/30/2008 9:43:01 AM >

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to ghitaPVH)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 9:54:24 AM   
Jahnaca


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Liz

quote:

I see it is being challenged.


Challenged or explored?

Liz if you make even personal comments in public your opening yourself up to comments.  Some will agree, others might not agree and some might even challenge.  That is the nature of public statements.  

I don’t see anyone condemning his personal opinion, or even stating he can’t have them.  I do see other personal opinions being expressed that do not 100% agree with the original.  That is what a public forum is about.  The sharing of ideas.  It would be pretty boring to put up something in a forum like this and only accept the “I agree” and walk away statements.  We also don’t learn as much as actually discussing the idea to begin with.  Also not every statement that says I don’t agree is automatically a challenge most are not.

There is an old saying “can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen” that is the basis of a public forum like this.  If you can’t handle what comes back to you once you say it, don’t say it at all.  That applies to each and everyone one of us who choose to participate in a public forum.

Jahna

_____________________________

Mass-produced human beings are attractive only to those who expect to be their benevolent mass producers. John Norman

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 10:02:22 AM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1711
Status: offline 		Hello Jahna,

I see some folks more "explored" than others.   But hey, that's my take on it.   And yeah, I guess if I say so on a public board I better be ready to have the heat turned up.  Which is fine, I don't care.    You seem to enjoy "exploring" Bull's posts, to the point of exasperation.    And what have you accomplised every time you have done that?   Make him look bad?  Made you look better?  What is the point?  To get some "truth" out?  I am curious.  I am not the writer you are, don't pretend to be, yet I don't see Bull attacking anyone, I don't see him forcing his opinions down anyone's throat, yet, he is always challenged.   

I seriously don't get it.  But then....~shrugs~....I guess it really doesn't matter much.  

Take care,

Liz

(in reply to Jahnaca)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 10:43:48 AM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3033
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

<snipped>
There are natural slaves out there, they are however not as common as one might hope. They would never deny that they are in fact meant to serve not man, but rather men. They are whole when men around them find them pleasing, all men. Not that all men literally own them, but rather that their nature and efforts are own by the nature of uncompromising men. They in fact yearn to belong to such men. They didn’t have to be told this; they were born to live it. We have seen these girls, but sadly enough they aren’t littering our streets.

Bull


Greetings Master Bull,

Thank you for this post and the paragraph above in particular.  This is the closest description I have read which mirrors my own thoughts and desires.  These threads you've started over the last few days have got me wearing my thinking cap again ( not always a good thing), and I hope to gain some clarity on my inner workings from them.  Thanks for the inspiration. 

I spoke with Master Thadius last week - he sends his best.  He and jess are doing well.

Hale and hardy wishes to you and yours ~ fairer


_____________________________

"The girl shows up tomorrow evening for some time together...and I need someone to fuck with, so things are looking up, I reckon. "

"The girl is a world class somnambulist." ~ Senor Jaime

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The Dust Legs call me Ranting Bull - 1/30/2008 10:56:28 AM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1711
Status: offline 		fairer,

Please send my best to Thadius.  Tell him he is missed.

Thanks,

Liz

(in reply to fairerthanshe)
Profile   Post #: 20
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