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Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts


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Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 6:41:07 AM   
Webmaster60


Posts: 396
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline 		I am, what I would call a "neo Gorean" Master. I would like to introduce a discussion based on REALISTIC Gorean culture.

I am sick to death of Gorean culture being given a bad name in the D/s Community because of many Goreans ability (or lack thereof) to distinguish fantasy from reality..
NO, WE DO NOT:
kill slaves found unpleasing
ride around on big birds
walk around collaring unowned slaves without their consent
brutally physically abuse/mame slaves (NOT to be confused with discipline)

WAKE up.. There IS no planet called Gor. THis is Earth.. This is REALITY, NOT Some BS Fantasy Land.

Having said that...
There ARE some tenants of Gorean culture I DO adhere to. I DO brand my slaves, I DO expect them to be slaves, not brats, nor subs. I do NOT "love" my slaves as nilla women, I do NOT coddle them or cator to THEIR needs. I am Gorean because I believe in the intense bond between Master and slave. I am Gorean because I believe ownership is absolute, without exception or condition. I am Gorean because while I DO "care" how a slave feels, I do not let HOW she feels dictate my Mastery of her. I am Gorean because it is her will that will bend to mine. NO she is not a doormat, YES she can have a mind, but IF she gets to make a decision, it is because "I" have decided to allow her to do so. She does not act independantly from me, she is an extension of me. HER reason for existing is to serve, please and be found pleasing. I am Gorean because if my slave is found unpleasing, she is punished. Sometimes to the extreme, but never to the point of breaking a limb or dismembering, or permanently damaging. Finally, I am Gorean because I have HONOR.

I do not care if anyone agrees with me or not. This MY philosophy, my way, my Dominance. It is unfortunate that today, in these times, that we must sadly have to make a distinction between Master and dominant. I am a Master, it is NOT how I act or something I "do. Its is who and what I am. and even though I am currently without a slave, it does not change who and what I am. Conversely, a slave withou a Master is STILL a slave, no.. she does not slave to ANY Man that calles himself Master, but she is STILL a slave and should behave with the respect, and manners of her position.

Many in the lifestyle shun us, as nilla's do "normal" lifestylers. I, because of my views tend to be too extreme for most. Not to mention a Sadistic streak a mile wide :) I write this because I see so MANY new slaves out there seeking advise in Gorean culture, but we somply throw Normans' Books at them.. Umm HELLO.. these books were a FANTASY.. NOT to be taken literally.. They DO illustrate MANY wonderful tenants of the Master/slave relationship, but again are NOT to be taken literally..

Now.. Open fire, I stand ready

Master Michael

< Message edited by Webmaster60 -- 9/19/2005 6:44:49 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 6:48:41 AM   
Falonthas


Posts: 18
Joined: 2/1/2004
Status: offline 		you said it yourself
the books illustrate many of the tenets practiced in the pairings

now im sure some here will go into greater details then i intend to so i will be brief
remember that norman brought together excerpts of the old cultures and blended them all together
the books show in each volume what culture tarl was reminded of
they all had some special things that made them what they were

giving new people the books helps them get started seeing these cultures how they were with the poorly written vision norman rolled them into

but these are simple start points
after you read the books then go to the library if you need more
pull out the references of the ancient mesopotamian cultures
pull out greek history
pull out italian history
the list goes on because in the books many cultures were shown

they all have several things in common
when you see these things then you see past the fiction and get to know the reality

(in reply to Webmaster60)
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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 6:53:33 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		You pepole dont reide around on big birds? i am so diapointed now, i wanted one of those, i love the Final Fantasy chocabos and those birds must be somthing similar right? Do that mean you are not lead by giant insectoids either? oh the disapointment, the disapointment.

Dont sound like your practice Gorean lifestule mutch differant from other Gorean lifestylists Webmaster60 sounds mostly like the ones you are complaining aboute is role players. Now nothing wrong whit role playing games, i love them, and is quite good at it, proud to say, but all the Gorean roleplys i ahve tried give me a headace becouse so many players can not iffer between fantasy and reality.

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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 11:24:29 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I am, what I would call a "neo Gorean" Master. I would like to introduce a discussion based on REALISTIC Gorean culture.


I'm a little confused here Michael. Are you saying that the discussions you've been seeing on this board up 'till now don't represent a realistic Gorean culture? I know that there are exceptions, but I think that the tone of this board in general is rather pragmatic and realistic.

quote:

I am sick to death of Gorean culture being given a bad name in the D/s Community because of many Goreans ability (or lack thereof) to distinguish fantasy from reality.


Just a cross I'm afraid you're going to have to learn to bear. Our name will always be mud with large parts of the D/s community because we don't subscribe to many of the tennants that they hold dear. Some of it has to do with being associated with role-players, but some of it comes from the fact that we really don't see eye-to-eye on some things.

quote:

NO, WE DO NOT:
kill slaves found unpleasing
ride around on big birds
walk around collaring unowned slaves without their consent
brutally physically abuse/mame slaves (NOT to be confused with discipline)

WAKE up.. There IS no planet called Gor. THis is Earth.. This is REALITY, NOT Some BS Fantasy Land.


Again, not sure why you're shouting this on this particular board. I don't think I've seen anyone here claiming that we do any of those things, or live anywhere but Earth.

quote:

I am Gorean because I believe in the intense bond between Master and slave. I am Gorean because I believe ownership is absolute, without exception or condition. I am Gorean because while I DO "care" how a slave feels, I do not let HOW she feels dictate my Mastery of her. I am Gorean because it is her will that will bend to mine. NO she is not a doormat, YES she can have a mind, but IF she gets to make a decision, it is because "I" have decided to allow her to do so. She does not act independantly from me, she is an extension of me. HER reason for existing is to serve, please and be found pleasing. I am Gorean because if my slave is found unpleasing, she is punished.


None of those things make you Gorean. Those things might be true because you are Gorean, but they don't make you Gorean. It's a subtle distinction, I know, but an important one. You can be Gorean completely apart from keeping slaves.

quote:

Finally, I am Gorean because I have HONOR.


Men possessed of honor seldom if ever boast of their own. Men possessed of honor have no need to do so. Honor is very often about the things that you do when nobody is looking, without regard for what you might gain or lose, and without thought of what others may or may not think of you. Something for you to think about.

quote:

I do not care if anyone agrees with me or not. This MY philosophy, my way, my Dominance. It is unfortunate that today, in these times, that we must sadly have to make a distinction between Master and dominant. I am a Master, it is NOT how I act or something I "do. Its is who and what I am.


Then you are something that I am not. I'm not "a Master", I'm simply a Gorean man. It's enough. I happen to be edana's master (a role). For what it's worth, I'm not "a Dominant" either. The tendency to assert dominance is a character trait of mine, to be sure, but it doesn't really define me.

quote:

Conversely, a slave withou a Master is STILL a slave, no.. she does not slave to ANY Man that calles himself Master, but she is STILL a slave and should behave with the respect, and manners of her position.


Well, one would hope that any woman might behave with manners and respect. It doesn't always work out that way, but I think it's a reasonable expectation. If you are saying that those who claim to be Gorean slaves should carry themselves with the grace that one would associate with a Gorean slave all the time, not just when they're trying to impress someone, I'd agree with you. If you're saying that they should "yes, Master" you just because you say so, I don't. An owned girl has the luxury of her master's judgement about who she is and is not to accept as one of us. An unowned girl doesn't. She must decide for herself. If she decides that she cannot accept you as a Gorean man, then she won't. You don't have to associate with her if you don't want to.

quote:

Many in the lifestyle shun us, as nilla's do "normal" lifestylers. I, because of my views tend to be too extreme for most. Not to mention a Sadistic streak a mile wide :) I write this because I see so MANY new slaves out there seeking advise in Gorean culture, but we somply throw Normans' Books at them.. Umm HELLO.. these books were a FANTASY.. NOT to be taken literally.. They DO illustrate MANY wonderful tenants of the Master/slave relationship, but again are NOT to be taken literally..


My standing advice to someone (man or woman) who wants to understand our ways is to read the books (repeatedly). I don't recommend that they go into the mountains of New Hampshire and await a ship of aquisition to take them to Gor, though. The books are the source material. Yes, you have to think about what you are reading (a lot), but the books are the source and final arbiter of what is and isn't "Gorean". To the extent that what you do is consistant with the philosophy and culture that you find there, you are living as a Gorean. To the exent that what you do isn't, you're not.

This isn't to say that the books are a bible that you can quote chapter and verse from as if they were scripture or a cookbook for how to live. It's not that simple, and if you need things to be that simple, you're going to have a hard time of it. They aren't a manual or a rulebook. They set out a set of ideas about life, told as a story. In reading and thinking about the stories, you'll grasp the ideas (sooner or later) if you try.

You seem very passionate and enthusiastic. I hope that your passion and enthusiasm motivate you in fruitful directions. If you end up making a fool of yourself here and there along the way, don't be over-concerned about it. We all have from time to time.






< Message edited by Leonidas -- 9/19/2005 11:32:41 AM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to Webmaster60)
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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 11:38:47 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline
quote:

go into the mountains of New Hampshire and await a ship of aquisition to take them to Gor


i though it was a portal that took pepole to Gor, my bad.

Asfor honor, many pepole had honor long before the Gor books arived, John Norman did not invent honor, one can even be a none Gorean, even a woman and have honor.

(in reply to Leonidas)
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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 1:54:45 PM   
Webmaster60


Posts: 396
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I'm a little confused here Michael. Are you saying that the discussions you've been seeing on this board up 'till now don't represent a realistic Gorean culture? I know that there are exceptions, but I think that the tone of this board in general is rather pragmatic and realistic.


No, not at all. Thusfar I have found the majority of people here well spoken.

quote:

Again, not sure why you're shouting this on this particular board. I don't think I've seen anyone here claiming that we do any of those things, or live anywhere but Earth.


Not shouting. Emphasis

quote:

None of those things make you Gorean. Those things might be true because you are Gorean, but they don't make you Gorean. It's a subtle distinction, I know, but an important one. You can be Gorean completely apart from keeping slaves.


I disagree.. well.. I'll have to consider that.. But its a chicken/egg thing.. Do I do what I do because I identify with Gorean culture? or Does Gorean culture identify what I do as being Gorean?

quote:

Men possessed of honor seldom if ever boast of their own. Men possessed of honor have no need to do so. Honor is very often about the things that you do when nobody is looking, without regard for what you might gain or lose, and without thought of what others may or may not think of you. Something for you to think about..


I made the statement only because of my anger. Angry that there are so many "doms" out there that lie and BS their way into kinky sex in the name of D/s. Good slaves are afraid to speak these days

quote:

Then you are something that I am not. I'm not "a Master", I'm simply a Gorean man. It's enough. I happen to be edana's master (a role).


There we disagree. Being a Master is, to me, not a role. I think I understand your comparrison, but it does define you.

quote:

If you are saying that those who claim to be Gorean slaves should carry themselves with the grace that one would associate with a Gorean slave all the time, not just when they're trying to impress someone, I'd agree with you. If you're saying that they should "yes, Master" you just because you say so, I don't.


Agreed. The former is my position

quote:

My standing advice to someone (man or woman) who wants to understand our ways is to read the books (repeatedly).


I think there is the meat of my position. We often refer to the books (fantasy) to answer questions posed in reality. THis does give people the impression that we subscribe to things written intended as fantasy.

quote:

They aren't a manual or a rulebook. They set out a set of ideas about life, told as a story. In reading and thinking about the stories, you'll grasp the ideas (sooner or later) if you try.


I agree.. completely. But your statements are contrary to one another. THey are a guide, nothing more. But they do not dictate whether you are Gorean or not by how closely you follow them. Gorean culture is a mindset, like D/s. Its not what we do. Its who we are

quote:

You seem very passionate and enthusiastic. I hope that your passion and enthusiasm motivate you in fruitful directions. If you end up making a fool of yourself here and there along the way, don't be over-concerned about it. We all have from time to time.


::chuckles:: you're quite diplomatic.. I'm new here.. hopefully as you get to know me, you'll see that while I may rant, and perhaps not so elegantly put as your responses, I'm fairly level headed.. All this was primarily in respone to a slam to Goreans (un named) and so many wannabe doms bad mouth Goreans to slaves/subs when they have NO clue as to what its about.

Then brother, (if I may)... In your opinion.. What Makes a Gorean Master, a Gorean Master.? I say I am Gorean because of what I do and how I feel, and who I am. Where do you differ there?

Master Michael

(in reply to Leonidas)
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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 1:59:52 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		People need to worry about their own backyard(so to speak)and worry less what others are doing. While i do tend to agree with some of your statement.......i could care less if you are Gorean..pink...yellow...D/s....or bullshit brown. What i care about is how i live....how what i do reflects on my Master....everything and everyone else is irrelivent.
I surround myself with people i enjoy......i could care less how they live. If people have THAT much time to judge how i happen to live...they have way to much time on their hands. Who cares what other people think? not me.


~smilezz~

_____________________________

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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 3:36:58 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

quote:


quote:

They aren't a manual or a rulebook. They set out a set of ideas about life, told as a story. In reading and thinking about the stories, you'll grasp the ideas (sooner or later) if you try.


I agree.. completely. But your statements are contrary to one another. THey are a guide, nothing more. But they do not dictate whether you are Gorean or not by how closely you follow them. Gorean culture is a mindset, like D/s. Its not what we do. Its who we are


I disagree here. For me.. The books show you what you can be. Ergo they may well act in a general manner as a guide on how to achieve it. But then these are just my thoughts and I leave others to unravel the hidden mysteries of the philosophical aspects. I'm a pretty basic bloke really.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Webmaster60)
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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 3:56:59 PM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		Ok now the word Master means somone that have masterd somthing, that be a slave or art, and such a person is Master of such and such, that be the Master of the butiful slave girl edena like Leonidas, or a Master of art like Michelangelo, or a Master of Magick like Hermes Trismegistos, or even a Master cook like Jamie Oliver, you are Master of somthing, you are not a Master by itself, Master is not a race or a club one joins, it is a position, nothing more.

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 4:28:42 PM   
lisaSea


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/27/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters, Mistresses and those who kneel.

Nella... if I may, add to your description of the word, Master.

I feel a man can master himself, his surroundings, his life and among other things, how he reacts, the morals he chooses to live by, etc. This to me is extremely important to one who embraces the gorean life. Mastering another person, or being a "master" at his craft is not the same, as I see it.

So I would add, that while a man may be masterful at art, or excede in mastering women, that does not always mean he has mastered himself. It merely means he studied well in art school and found women that were content in serving him.

I feel a man can be a master, all by himself, with no slaves, skills or crafts whatsoever, if he has mastered his very core.

Just a different twist on things, :)

lisa {Sea's}






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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 4:57:03 PM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		Perhaps, though werry, werry few men or women for that matter have Masterd thmself, though many might think they have.

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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 6:49:38 PM   
Webmaster60


Posts: 396
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smilezz

People need to worry about their own backyard(so to speak)and worry less what others are doing. While i do tend to agree with some of your statement.......i could care less if you are Gorean..pink...yellow...D/s....or bullshit brown. What i care about is how i live....how what i do reflects on my Master....everything and everyone else is irrelivent.
I surround myself with people i enjoy......i could care less how they live. If people have THAT much time to judge how i happen to live...they have way to much time on their hands. Who cares what other people think? not me.


~smilezz~

::smiles:: I enjoy your spirit, not that you give a rats ass what I enjoy, but I thought it worth mention. You should know that I only brouht all this up, NOT to judge others. I don't care if one dresses up in a batman constume and swings from the rafters. Whatever works for them, works, period. I DID however want to lend my perspective on things. I train quite a few now and then, and I hate when I feel that some people misrepresent something I represent.

Your point however is well taken.
Master Michael

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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 6:53:30 PM   
Webmaster60


Posts: 396
Joined: 9/10/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

[quoteI disagree here. For me.. The books show you what you can be. Ergo they may well act in a general manner as a guide on how to achieve it. But then these are just my thoughts and I leave others to unravel the hidden mysteries of the philosophical aspects. I'm a pretty basic bloke really.


Sir, I fail to see where we disagree. A book on what you "can be" is again othing more than a guide to point you in the right direction. It is then up to the individual to take or leave that which they will.

Master Michael

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 7:11:16 PM   
Webmaster60


Posts: 396
Joined: 9/10/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nella

Perhaps, though werry, werry few men or women for that matter have Masterd thmself, though many might think they have.


Good day,
You are very correct, not that you need my reinforcement of your statement. However the girl you responded to has an important point. And IronBear's signature speaks to it as well. I have not yet Mastered myself. THough I try each day to become stronger that the day before. It is my strenght that my slave may draw upon. She need not have her own, she need only mine. If I am to be her grounding rock, upon which she casts all her cares, I must be a Master. To Master myself (work in progress) I must be a Master. To TRULY understand what it means to own another, to accept the awesome responsibility of total ownership I again, must be a Master.

In a book, I read something that spoke so deeply to my soul. It was then I knew I was ot destined to be boirn in this century (no not crazy) Norman said something to the effecto of (paraphrase) "Only a girl to burns in her belly to BE owned can be truly owned, and only a Master who has that same desire that NEED to be IN ownership of another, can truly Master another".

Please excuse the butchery of the phrase..

To illustrate; I was training a couple once. He could not Master her. He said "I do not believe that Master and slave should live together 24/7 for she sees me when I am NOT a Master, when I am depressed, or angry". I said to him, "no brother, being a Master is not what we DO, it is who we ARE". We are not sometimes a Master and sometimes not. (He never was able to Master her) Collared her, commanded her, owned her body.. But NEVER Mastered.

I'll shut up now.

Master Michael

(in reply to nella)
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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 9:35:18 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Webmaster60


quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

[quoteI disagree here. For me.. The books show you what you can be. Ergo they may well act in a general manner as a guide on how to achieve it. But then these are just my thoughts and I leave others to unravel the hidden mysteries of the philosophical aspects. I'm a pretty basic bloke really.


Sir, I fail to see where we disagree. A book on what you "can be" is again othing more than a guide to point you in the right direction. It is then up to the individual to take or leave that which they will.

Master Michael


Sir,
Then if we do not disagree, it is possible that we are in agreement. The word Master seems to be a point of debat with some. With one school of thought being that you may only be a Master (Gorean) when you have a slave in collar. This I disagree with however. I am the Master of my own home in which abide a Gorean Free man and a Gorean Free Woman (My Wife/ Free Companion) thus I claim the right to use master. Reality is of course that much of this is semantics and we each may claim what we will and refer to ourselves in what manner we choose. The diversity of Gor allows this and whilst many, many friends are more aligned to the cultures from the walled Cities) and the Earth historical background, I find that I'm strongly drawn to the desert peoples of Gor and their Earth Counterparts. So each to his or her own. I may disagree with a few on some small point or interpretation, but in the main I too stand for those ideals for which we strive in the being a Man.


< Message edited by IronBear -- 9/19/2005 9:38:38 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/19/2005 9:42:13 PM   
Kaylen


Posts: 7
Joined: 9/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Original: lisaSea

So I would add, that while a man may be masterful at art, or excede in mastering women, that does not always mean he has mastered himself. It merely means he studied well in art school and found women that were content in serving him.


can one truly master another if he has not mastered himself? There is a difference between merely commanding and being obeyed and truly mastering :)

Kay


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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/20/2005 12:59:14 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		To be a slave, i agree, one need to trule desire it, to burn for it whit every part of his or her being, one gives up fat to mutch in becomming a slave that to be happy what you get from it must mean the world. And in consensual slavery that is ultimatly what every slave seeks, to be happy. In the world of the books, it did not realy matter what the girls wanted or not, some did become happy, but that was a byproduct, the Gorean slavers did as they wished regardless, but in this world, this is not so, at least if you work whitin the law a slave girl will always be in the relationship becouse she want it, becouse it makes her happy, perhaps that happyness comes from pleasing another, but it makes her happy, and if she dont have that longing in her soul, she will not be happy.

You can definitly be a Gorean whitout having a slave girl, and you can be a Master whitout having a slave girl, but it depends on what you are Master of. i for once, and pleese take no offese, thinks it is a bit peposturus to claim the title Master and explain it is becouse of self mastery and then say that you have not masterd yourself yet. Well at least you are honest. That is a bit like a material artist halfway to the black belt calling him or herself Master becouse they are on the road there and might one day be.

As for being the strong pillar in your slave`s world, i agree, that has always been one of the things i have seen in a D/s relationship, that the Master will give the slave of his streght and be the rock he or she can lean on. And it is a werry nice thing in a relationship, but it is from what i know, and that is not that mutch, but at least from what i know, not a big part of Gorean philosophy. If the slave takes strenght from being a slave to her Master, that is good, but it is not nessesary, the only thing that is nessesary is that the man is pleased. It is not a werry two way relationship, and that i think is one of the subtle but big differances between Gorean and traditional D/s relationships.

In most D/s relationships there is an dynamic, as in all relationships one both gives and resives, though one serves and the other give the orders it is done to create happyness in both, boths happyness is just as inportant. Ofcourse it is not always so, espesialy whitin certin groups there is less of this and more of i am Master or Mistress me me me gimme gimme gimme, but most ftan it seam what i say is the case, but in Gorean, and a few similar lifestyles the slave is simply property, if he or she is happy, that often makes them serve better, and that is the only reason why it is inportant that they are happy, just like that a well taken care of chair serves its purpose better, a happy slave serves better, but the slave`s happyness for her own is uninportant. Ofcourse again this is not always the chase, but it is what it seam to me to be the case in many such relationships.

(in reply to Kaylen)
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RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/20/2005 3:51:18 AM   
lisaSea


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/27/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters and Mistresses..greetings slaves :)

Mistress Kaylen,

I hope this makes sense, we are the midst of one horrific lightening and thunder show, it's some G-daweful time in the wee hours of the night and no one is sleeping.

I love my dog, I love my dog, I love my dog.

In response to your question, that would depend on who was doing the serving, I think. Some require more "mastering" then others. In this life and speaking only from those I know personally, the women seek out the men, begging to be allowed to serve. I might venture to say they require less mastering then a woman who perhaps has to have her mind and outlook changed? I'm not certain, just speculation since I don't know anyone in the second category :)

It is all so personal, what works for one might not for the next. Master makes me "want" to please him with every fiber of my being, not by anything he does, but because of who he is. This subject might be too deep to discuss intelligently with the background noises and lack of sleep being experienced.

I think, there is a difference in women and while some require that constant reminder to keep them in "serve" mode...others would serve if their legs were cut off. One is not better then the other, just different, needing very different manners of "mastering". So, it is not for me to say what is correct, just what I know works here :)

Hoping this makes sense in response to your question...and wishing all a pleasant night..err mornng.

lisa{Sea's}






_____________________________

I prefer to think of it as aged to perfection, rather then just plain getting older.

http://www.geocities.com/house_of_sea

(in reply to Kaylen)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/20/2005 3:54:48 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		Good luck whit the lightening storm. in my opinion a woman that need to have her kind and opinions alterd to be a good slave, should not be a slave, what passibly could somone that dont desire it get out of it.

(in reply to lisaSea)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Realistic Gorean Masters Thoughts - 9/20/2005 5:54:48 PM   
luxus


Posts: 4
Joined: 9/19/2005
Status: offline 		nevermind :)

< Message edited by luxus -- 9/20/2005 5:55:34 PM >

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 20
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