Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain"

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Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain" - 2/27/2008 10:28:15 AM

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I didn't want to derail an active thread, so I'm posting this as it's own separate thread. This post is a tangent to something Wickad said on pixel's thread about a lack of Dommes in Dallas:

"This very attitude is also why many submissive men feel ashamed to be submissive and why many Dominant men think of submissive men as 'the bottom of the food chain'."

In response to that I'm just going to relate a story about my outing last night.

I took the metro into the city to attend a Black Rose class/seminar with some friends. We all had a great time with the class (which was on touch and intention, sort of new agey, but fun) and afterward there was the inevitable socializing. Four of my girlfriends and I were lightly teasing one cute subby guy together and totally fawning over the guy, and I noticed several of the men I'd pegged as Dominants looking on and obviously wishing they were getting that kind of attention.

In my memory, I cannot recall ever seeing a heterosexual Dominant man fawned over by women the same way. I'm sure it happens in cases where there is just some UBERDOM in a community and all the girls love him, but I'd say that's a rarity.

So maybe the Doms who say that stupid stuff are just jealous of you guys, because you get all the attention :P

What say you Ladies (and boys), have you noticed the same thing? And what do you think about this ridiculous "male subs at the bottom of the food chain" bullshit?

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 10:35:26 AM

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Quite simply it is bullshit. We each have our own tastes of course and personally I like some submissive males. Most are intelligent, witty, have a great sense of humor and actually try to get to know a woman. My sub male is very protective of me and watches over me and I do the same for him. Which to me is the most important things I am looking for in a man.

Who do I consider at the bottom of the food chain? Any pompous male or female who believes that they have the god given right to treat everyone else like shit, meanwhile their credit cards are maxed out from buying to many expensive toys that they have no idea how to use. They toys just look good when they are at the club putting on a "show".

Give me someone true to their own nature and who accepts it with humility, I don't want a parading peacock..

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 10:38:19 AM

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I have not actually, in my short time in the lifestyle noticed it. Then again, I also haven't spoken to any male doms...so, I guess I kind of can't help. :-p

I think it's stupid, but I'd wager it fits right into a lot of people's fantasies. Which is why it might be an enduring train of thought. I mean, a lot of male subs might actually get off on the notion that they're at the very bottom of the food chain. A lot of Dommes probably like to foward this as well.

That being said, I don't believe in a foodchain. We're all equal, despite our various roles.

DV's Fox

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 10:38:42 AM

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Hi Ma`am, its the perception that male submissives are not real men. Truth to tell its harder to admit to and many take the easy way out, calling themselves Dom and asking a Mistress to "Take them on" in secret.

To me there is no food chain, just a lifestyle, and each and everyone has there place in whatever niche they want to fit in.

Many thanks for starting the thread.

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 10:50:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066
I think it's stupid, but I'd wager it fits right into a lot of people's fantasies. Which is why it might be an enduring train of thought. I mean, a lot of male subs might actually get off on the notion that they're at the very bottom of the food chain. A lot of Dommes probably like to foward this as well.

That's a really excellent point! I never thought of if that way.

(in reply to Shawn1066)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 10:51:36 AM

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This is true...

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 10:58:51 AM

missunderstood88

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They're not the bottom of the food chain, they're just abundant. There's a difference. :)

(in reply to MissDeeCole)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 10:59:46 AM

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What a load of rubbish. As a general rule, I find submissive men to be much better mannered, more intelligent, and more sophisticated than either vanilla men or men who identify as dominant. I'm fully aware that there are exceptions to this. If that, however, is the "bottom of the food chain," I'll take it every time.

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 11:01:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066

I have not actually, in my short time in the lifestyle noticed it. Then again, I also haven't spoken to any male doms...so, I guess I kind of can't help. :-p

I think it's stupid, but I'd wager it fits right into a lot of people's fantasies. Which is why it might be an enduring train of thought. I mean, a lot of male subs might actually get off on the notion that they're at the very bottom of the food chain. A lot of Dommes probably like to foward this as well.

That being said, I don't believe in a foodchain. We're all equal, despite our various roles.

DV's Fox

Shawn -- I think you'd said here in a previous thread that you're not involved in the public BDSM community, so that might attribute somewhat to your not understanding or seeing this phenomenon. I assure you, there are people out there, femdoms included, who have this notion that sub males are at the bottom of the food chain. What's more disturbing is that there are sub males that propagate that theory. I suspect it's a case of fantasy not converting well into reality, in that they cannot possibly want to live as a maggot 24/7...but hey, who am I to knock their kink?

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Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
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"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Shawn1066)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 11:20:15 AM

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Regardless of any desire for maggotry I or any other sub may have, the numbers are against us. There are maybe a couple dozen Dommes (hetero, anyway) in New England on CM, excluding pros, with hundreds of msubs trying to earn their attention. Just in order to do something with her life besides answer messages, a Domme will need to vet through communications to determine which are worthy of any response, or even to be read at all.

If the typical response to a message is no response, then regardless of whether an individual msub is valueless, as a group, we are less valuable than other flavors of kink. It's also my understanding that it is common at fetish events to charge a far greater fee to single msubs, or bar their admittance entirely. Money talks. In this case, money says "we don't particularly need you."

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(in reply to MisPandora)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 11:25:05 AM

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i've never been treated as the bottom of anything just because i'm submissive. When i go to socials with my family, if i talk to people outside of my family it's generally to male dominants (though i think it's because the only time i'm really comfortable is in small or one-on-one situations, so in this case it's while i'm stepping out for a smoke... it seems to me that a greater percentage of dominant men smoke than any other subgroup in the lifestyle). These guys treat me with respect and are generally friendly, asking about my experiences and non-essential chitchat.

In my opinion, it's more about how you present yourself than what label you attach to your lapel. i've seen alot of submissive men who act like they feel they've got no more worth than a pile of dog shit, so of course these are going to be treated no better than something you'd scrape off your shoe with a stick.

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if only to keep me to herself.

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Where the fuck do I post?

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(in reply to MisPandora)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 11:25:08 AM

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Sub males are quite prevalent in this world, and to a certain extent, like wildebeast on the plains, compared to the smaller number of lions and lioness', are quite literally at the bottom of the food chain. Also many new sub men think for some ridiculous reason, that it helps to adopt the pose of sniveling, subservient and begging wimps toward all Dommes. Their visibility gives all sub men a bad reputation.

But in addition (and similar to the pose of male subs), too many male Doms feel they need to radiate an attitude of superiority, disdain and control toward everyone else (including Dommes, who they try to top). For guys like these, a sub who is male, but has no interest in or fear of them nor is willing to kowtow to them, is something they have difficulty dealing with. It's not so much, KindLadyGrey that they are jealous but that they view a proud male sub as a potential threat, fearing that attitude will infect the fawning female subs they like to scoop up. Sometimes as a defense mechanism, they react by herding together and bellowing that male subs are beneath regard.

Fortunately, most experienced and confident male Doms don't act like that at all.

< Message edited by WalterRego -- 2/27/2008 11:28:39 AM >

(in reply to MisPandora)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 11:27:30 AM

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Wow, the way some Dommes talk about submissive men kinda makes me wish I were more dominant myself so I could hook up with one of these awesome fellows ...

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RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 11:33:04 AM

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Let me take pieces from some of these post. Im intelligent, witty, have a great sense of humor and really do try to get to know women, Im good mannered and sopisticated. Im not a sub or could I just be in denial.

(in reply to WalterRego)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 11:34:16 AM

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(reply to no one in general)

I sometimes have to laugh at the whole idea of subs being at the bottom of the food chain because as long as that mentality exists, the rest of us can exist as we are without having to deal with people who might actually think that way. It often works as a really good filtering out process (yes, subs also filter out dominant women as a necessity). As a submissive (male or female) starts to achieve a self actualization mode of interaction with others, "bottom of the food chain" serves as more of a fantasy than a reality. Sure, it's fine if that's your kink, but if it's not, then I prefer to let the groveling "worms" pretend they are that low on the totem pole and watch as the young dominants with whips chase after that ridiculous example, and then come back to complain because they can't seem to find what they are seeking. I always find that when someone seeks someone who is as low on the totem pole as you can find, you're going to get someone who is pretty low on the totem pole, which makes for some pretty "interesting" interactions, especially if someone is looking for someone who can enrich them intellectually or in any other way.

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RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 11:35:14 AM

AtlantaMistress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066

We're all equal, despite our various roles.

DV's Fox

I have been know to say "Equal yet opposite roles - both worthy of respect."

I think the same Doms that say that probably are the ones that believe no woman is actually Dominant, just haven't find the right man to submit to.

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Mistress Sandy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd rather be hated for something I am than loved for something I am not.

(in reply to Shawn1066)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 11:39:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066
[clip]
I mean, a lot of male subs might actually get off on the notion that they're at the very bottom of the food chain. A lot of Dommes probably like to foward this as well.

DV's Fox

Yes, to the extent that the bottom of a food chain refers to those who are devoured, and the top, to those who are the devourers, it may suit a submissive or slave to consider themselves the prey. The food chain is just not a very apt metaphor, in this case.

I get that the original post is about male submissives experiencing an attitude of lower status from other males. I suspect "bottom of the pecking order," might be more the intended idea.

However, those who question the power or substance of a male for identifying as a submissive or slave, don't understand a couple of things.

One, is that just because he's submissive, doesn't mean he's submissive to you. The samurai were submissive to their rulers, a wolf is submissive to its alpha - the state of being submissive to someone based on your own choices and feelings and your own terms, is not shameful or weak.

And secondly, when you're talking about a submissive or slave, you're talking about a person who may endure the harshest rigours for entertainment. Torment, torture, psychological humiliation, restraint, restriction, deprivation, labor, punishment - any or all of these. So, when you're talking about someone who's a voluntary submissive or slave, you're likely to be talking about one tough son of a fine, upstanding woman.

When you think about it, it's kinda misguided, to think they're weak.

< Message edited by MadameMarque -- 2/27/2008 11:41:07 AM >

(in reply to Shawn1066)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 11:40:44 AM

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Kind Lady Grey,
I can't say that I've ever been "snubbed" because of being a submissive male when around dominant males. When talking with them at events, I've been told by a few that they couldn't relate to being a male who was submissive, but that's never prevented me from still having a conversation with them or being accepted as part of the group. Perhaps that's just the nature of the groups I belong to and the community I'm part of. But then at 50, I don't get fawned over like the young boys do either.

Regardless, I certainly don't feel as though I'm at the bottom of the food chain and can say that I have people who I can genuinely call friends who are male Doms.

By coincidence, I was at a social gathering for a couple of hours last night where I was sitting across from a male who identifies as a Dom. We began talking about a demo that a local Domme put on at a recent munch and he remembered that I'd asked her a number of questions during and after the demo. He then revealed that he ocassionally calls her up and asks to bottom to her. He also told me the story of how he got into the lifestyle as a sub to a woman who was a Domme. I was honored that he'd be that candid with me and enjoyed our conversation immensely. He's one male Dom that I know of I can definitely relate to (and vice-versa) who wouldn't consider me at the "bottom of the food chain". LOL!

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 11:55:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KindLadyGrey
And what do you think about this ridiculous "male subs at the bottom of the food chain" bullshit?

i've said it myself more than once *shrug*

A couple of points:

Of the various D/s orientations, who is the most likely to have to pay to play? Male subs. i know, i know, supply and demand, etc. But what message does it send? That a male sub actually has negative value to the community- not even, certainly not positive, but negative- the only way to recover the time spent playing with them is through cash.

If you spend any time browsing profiles on the other side, who do you most often see specifically mentioned as being unwanted, blocked, sent to junk mail, etc., usually in all capital letters? NO MALE SUBMISSIVES!!!

At least those have been my observations... if anyone has seen differently, i'd be very interested to hear it!

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

RE: Males subs are the "bottom of the food chain&q... - 2/27/2008 12:08:51 PM

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QUOTE

Of the various D/s orientations, who is the most likely to have to pay to play? Male subs. i know, i know, supply and demand, etc. But what message does it send?

END QUOTE

whose more better? male doms or more male subs? just coz male subs got to pay to play that don't mean they less valued. there's just 2 many of them to go around and not enough female doms. and its coz females [subs] give it up faster than female doms.

(in reply to petdave)

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