RE: Again, a question from an outsider

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RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 6:06:48 PM

LordShadow

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It is not so much that there would not be fear, I would imagine that if I ever gave such a command she would present her arm crying, begging, and pleading for mercy. My wench is not a robot, just one dedicated enough to follow my instructions no matter what they were. That was the whole point of what I said in the original post before it got blown out of proportion.

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RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 7:02:16 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

I wonder though, if, one day, he, being larger and stronger than you decided he had had enough of being hurt and humilliated and put you on your knees to have as his slave, whether you would appeal to the authorities, or accept it as the natural way of things. How you would answer that question would be the measure of whether your "philosophy" squares with mine.

It is obvious that our philosophies do not match. Your way of life is not My way of life. I very specifically pointed that out by the title of the post. I am neither a believer of male or female supremacy. I am more of the inclination that role is not gender specific. Whether one identifies as a Master/Mistress or slave is not based on their genitalia. I realize that is not necessarily the belief of those who frequent this board, and is absolutely not what I came here to ask.

I've been very fortunate in the responses I have received here. Most understood the question for what it was. That being an inquiry regarding the statement made. Many who participated were able to do so with grace, in the interest of sharing more about the principles of following a Gorean lifestyle.

Now, as to what would ever happen should My sub attempt to reverse roles with Me, well I'm afraid I have no response that wouldn't be cynical. It isn't his physical strength or ability that prevents him from doing so. It is his nature of wishing to serve, specifically to serve Me, just as I'm sure yours who is in your collar serves you.

Be well.

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"Come to the edge, She said.
He said that he was afraid.
Come to the edge, She said.
He came. She pushed him,
And he flew . . ."

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RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 7:16:26 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

They do not view pain as a path to pleasure, and getting there by that route would seem peculiar to them.

Would that include the Warrior Caste and others who inevitably experience the biological fact that it does lead to a pleasant rush if the slope is right?

quote:

It isn't. Even if in this particular Gorean community it is, it still isn't.

That much, I can certainly agree with you on.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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Post #: 63

RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 7:34:12 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It is obvious that our philosophies do not match.

You did ask what the differences were, and Leonidas' reply was spot-on in that regard.

quote:

Now, as to what would ever happen should My sub attempt to reverse roles with Me, well I'm afraid I have no response that wouldn't be cynical.

I'd still like to hear the cynical reply, and I imagine some others might, as well.

I've had someone attempt to do just that (role reversal during play), once, and instinctually put her down, which got her purring more than anything else that transpired that evening. I guess you could say it was the actual starting point of my experiences with D/s and the like; a first glimpse since an unmentionable age of the animal side of power dynamics, and not the first time someone has been surprised to find the reality of the situation rewarding. Now, I'd be the first to admit that physical strength is far from the only factor in it, but it does add something. Most of us instinctively take that into account when determining whether we are willing to challenge someone. Other factors include height, apparent dexterity, commitment and presence, at the very least. And, of course, prior experiences with the same person, which leaves room for technique, etc.

It has been my perception that, in the Gorean worldview, it is more a matter of whether one can dominate and master, than whether the other party wants to be dominated and mastered, though one can certainly argue that it's bound to be more practical (and legal) to do so with one that has a desire for it.

As Trevelyan is fond of saying, "conquest and defiance."

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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Post #: 64

RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 7:41:17 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Would that include the Warrior Caste and others who inevitably experience the biological fact that it does lead to a pleasant rush if the slope is right?

Are you suggesting a connection between sparring and sadomasochistic kink? I ask because, that's what I was talking about. If warriors viewed pain as the path to pleasure, they'd just cut themselves (and ignore girls). Why risk injury or worse in fights.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/9/2008 7:53:19 PM >

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Post #: 65

RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 7:51:02 PM

Aswad

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Perhaps you're not getting what I referred to. A significant fraction of the teens in Denmark were recently shown to be addicted to endorphins derived from intense physical training. To the extent that they actually underwent opioid withdrawal symptoms when kept from indulging their habit. Are you saying the Warrior Caste does not to some extent revel in the rush of adrenaline and endorphins during training?

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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Post #: 66

RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 7:57:16 PM

Kirata

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Ha! Both posting at the same time. Well, see above.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/9/2008 7:58:31 PM >

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Post #: 67

RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 9:05:46 PM

Aswad

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Great minds think alike, obviously.

Well, yeah, I'm making an implication of the sort, just the other way around. That what is referred to as sadomasochism in the context of BDSM is often something that people start doing after they discover that this biological hardwiring can be used to create a pleasurable rush. And that this can, in turn, be passed on as a tip for others. I think of that as enhancing one's sex life, not perverting it.

What I do, however, may qualify as perverting it, but I've always been a sick puppy.

Which, as I agreed earlier, has nothing to do with Gorean lifestyle, just like it wouldn't have anything to do with the Gorean lifestyle if I enjoyed golf (shudder). On a side note, the earlier (before I got exposed to Gorean ideas) deconstruction of social imprinting did remove my interest in a fair number of kinks, so I'd tend to agree that a more naturalistic approach is likely to yield less kinky people than the mainstream Western culture does, but not that it reduces it to a baseline of zero, nor that what remains is unnatural.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 9:28:45 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Greetings Kirata,

Why would you say it is not Gorean?

Live well,
Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Okay, so some thrill seekers have discovered a natural "circuit" in their bodies, and they think it makes a kewl toy. What's the problem, right? Well hell, no problem at all. But that's not the question. The question is what is Gorean.

Goreans are utterly straightfoward when it comes to nature. They do not view pain as a path to pleasure, and getting there by that route would seem peculiar to them. The inevitable 'whip-me-master' quotes do not depict girls craving physical pain so they can get high on endorphins.

I think some people tend to become defensive and even irrational about this issue because they think hey, I'm Gorean, and me and my girl (fill in the blank) and so fucking what? Or the impression arises, "if" this "then" you're not Gorean. That's not for me to judge, and I don't intend my remarks to be taken that way.

For me, the question isn't about the person. It is strictly limited to whether or not this particular kink is Gorean, i.e., generally practiced among Goreans, favored by Gorean philosophy, and something an individual can definitely expect to have to deal with if they join the Gorean community.

It isn't. Even if in this particular Gorean community it is, it still isn't.

Thank you.

Kirata

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RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 10:04:17 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

I'd tend to agree that a more naturalistic approach is likely to yield less kinky people than the mainstream Western culture does, but not that it reduces it to a baseline of zero, nor that what remains is unnatural.

Goreans would not consider anything that occurs naturally to be "un-natural", and they are tolerant of people who are exceptions. Gorean cultural values do not celebrate the directions these exceptions take, but Goreans feel no need to persecute and kill people over naturally occuring variations. Western society could learn a thing or two from Gor. A basic trust in the natural world exorcises many "evils".

Kirata

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/9/2008 10:13:16 PM >

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RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 10:09:38 PM

amelliagrace

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Goreans would not consider anything that occurs naturally to be "un-natural", and they are quite tolerant of people who are exceptions. Gorean cultural values do not celebrate the directions these exceptions take, but neither do Goreans feel any need to persecute and kill people for that cause. Western society could learn a thing or two from Gor. A basic trust in the natural world exorcises many "evils".

Kirata

So very true.

Grace

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RE: Again, a question from an outsider - 3/9/2008 10:11:50 PM

Aswad

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Indeed.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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Post #: 72