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Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave


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Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/27/2005 8:36:26 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 1471
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Tal
I have many friends in the BDSM Lifestyle. I attend play parties and admire how many have developed fine skill with various whips. What I rarely see is a BDSM Master/Mistress taking time to train a slave. It seems to me, that this is what sets Gorean apart, for me training a slave is important. In the Books such highly trained slaves were prized. Now before I say anything more...I am not saying Goreans are better then BDSM. I have taken some lesson and I think knowing how to use whips is very important. But let also remember it is just as important for a Master or Mistress to train their slave.


I wish You Well

Nosathro
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/27/2005 8:40:12 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Training for long periods is quite common among pepole that practice BDSM and D/s, though for some styles long periods of training is not nessesary while for some it is and for other again the training occult natrualy as the relationship advances and time go by, ans one slowly learns of one another.

(in reply to Nosathro)
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RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/27/2005 8:50:27 PM   
Webmaster60


Posts: 396
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline 		Other than the need to sate my Sadistic side, I find training a new slave one of my most enjoyable practices. I take on whomever I can as mentor and trainer. I love teaching. I love the mind thats willing to learn. I don't think you "see" much training that you realize it for what it is. Every workshop, seminar and support group offers training of some sort. Problem is, there is no "official rule book" of whats best. That is left up to the individuals engaged to decide, hence what I may require of my slave may not be for everyone since many slaves require varying levels of control.

I, unlike some, and again, like many more.. DO.. choose clothing, have a daily schedule, require journaling, have required reading, monitor diet and excercise, financial plans and spending (if I allow) for slaves in training (and even in ltr's.) Many in the BDSM culture think thats a stretch, but for me and those like minded individuals, this is standard.

Master Michael

_____________________________

Master Michael
~~~~~~~~~~
"To sin in silence when he should
speak makes cowards of men"

(in reply to Nosathro)
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RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/27/2005 11:39:39 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10836
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I think this is a very important point, and it doesn't apply to just Goreans. It's true of more mainstream kinksters as well: they often fall into the trap of thinking that the person who cracks the whip with the most skill is necessarily the best dom or master. That's not true at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Tal
I have many friends in the BDSM Lifestyle. I attend play parties and admire how many have developed fine skill with various whips. What I rarely see is a BDSM Master/Mistress taking time to train a slave. It seems to me, that this is what sets Gorean apart, for me training a slave is important. In the Books such highly trained slaves were prized. Now before I say anything more...I am not saying Goreans are better then BDSM. I have taken some lesson and I think knowing how to use whips is very important. But let also remember it is just as important for a Master or Mistress to train their slave.


(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/28/2005 1:41:22 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		For me the training of a slave is something like growing an orchid. The end result we hope will be some thing unique with beauty, pioise, grace and obedience. During this training period I believe is when the strongest bonds are formed and when each truely finds the inner self of the other.

Just my view which has no reflection on others or the Goprean Lifestyle.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/28/2005 2:45:52 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		i think training can be werry postitive, i would love to get into contact whit somone that can train me as i know werry little and aquiering knowledge is always good.

Werry often normal D/s training is a bit less formal that Gorean training, but not always and that is not a bad thing, just somthing different.

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/29/2005 11:30:23 AM   
tarnishedhalo777


Posts: 119
Status: offline 		IMO=knowing I had caused Master's displeasure would hurt far more than physical pain.The displeasure would be a far more valuable training tool in my case.

_____________________________

I will not die the death of loneliness by being afraid to love and afraid to get hurt. I will not commit figurative suicide by leaving my potential underdeveloped because I am afraid to take risks.

(in reply to Nosathro)
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RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/29/2005 12:46:04 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

Perhaps I am not fully understanding what is meant by the topic title here. Training a slave to (cough) be skillful with a whip or finding that the use of a whip on a person equates to some how making them eventually a slave?

Training for me so far has consisted on identifying myself, understanding what myself was and is, accepting the answer i found, deciding what i felt i needed to do with this information. This was a 5 month segment..3 months of interaction via internet, cam, phone, email..and 2 months under the same roof together.

Once my decision was made (to seek Masters leadership and control of my life..and yes i had to hold my breath because His decision here was just as valid)..He moved into the training phase of learning everything about what pleases Him. This is the current and present phase for me and will last 7 months together.

After that point will come again a decision time for us both..(a year will have past)..is this truely what we want?..Being a Master or a slave is not what is in question but us together as Master/slave. If that is a yes from us both..permanent collar of His ownership of "this slave" will be sought from me in a formal ritual/ceremony just as it did for the training collar.

From there..everything that He used to bring me through those phases will still continue until death to be taught, retaught, emphysized and restructured, and exbounded on as well as more of life learning..higher education, interests such as astronomy, belly dancing, shaolin monks, painting, etc. the list goes on and on for us both.

At some point in our life together branding will take place which will entail both of us learning about the process, different tools used, taking care of, etc. though it will be done most probably by a professional.

I guess what am getting at is the process of learning is never ending..as the saying goes: when one feels they have learned everything or there is nothing left to learn..they die.
The other thing I am trying to say (personal opinion) is you can't teach one to "be a slave". You can help them discover, embrace what they are, and teach them specifics to "your" liking..but ultimately, it had to of been in them all along.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/29/2005 1:04:56 PM   
plantlady64


Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I attend play parties and admire how many have developed fine skill with various whips. What I rarely see is a BDSM Master/Mistress taking time to train a slave.

Hello There,
I tend to agree with your dual trains of thought here. I am under my Old Guard Master's training collar. We plan to reach a point in my training next 2/24 to be able to feel I've reached a point I'm found worthy of the real collar of his House. I am absolutely not a top in any capacity nor would I want to be, but I train from both sides of the life. I started doing this before I even had a Master as to be a good slave I need to know what to expect from a good Master and what work is involved in a Master obtaining his skills. I feel the more I know about the other side of the coin the safer I play for starters.
As far as being skilled with a whip that's a whole other ball of wax. Many can throw them, but few can make them dance effortlessly. For example in the local dungeon I play in out of ten whip Masters only two of them know that the cracker is the only part of the whip that's supposed to touch someone. Many of them are trained on how to hit thin air, but when it comes to hitting humans they just don't get the art of the whip. Sometimes it's not a training problem as much as it is being open to Mastering the act of beating someone with it.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/29/2005 1:25:20 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		"What I rarely see is a BDSM Master/Mistress taking time to train a slave. It seems to me, that this is what sets Gorean apart, for me training a slave is important."

I would take issue with that statement (gosh, what a surprise, right?). I think that sensation players (admittedly, in my unscientific opinion, the majority of BDSM) don't have a reason to train (they have no ongoing power exchange dynamic in their relationship and thus, no reason to train). However, the lifestyle Dominants I know who are in power exchange relationships (suffice to say, a sizeable number) take great care in training their submissive/slave.

I also don't think it's accurate to portray training as something that is unique to, or approaching universality in Gor (something that would be a necessity for it to rise to the level of "setting Goreans apart").

I don't think I'm misusing Leonidas' quotation from a previous thread, in the context of this discussion (please feel free to correct me if wrong, for I have no desire to inappropriately quote you):

"The training of a Gorean girl can be very comprehensive, or it can be just about nothing, depending on the expectations and standards of her master. There isn't a single standard other than the desires of the master of the house."

Evidently some Goreans (I have no idea how many) do not conduct extensive training either.

On a side note, I do think that Gorean Masters and lifestyle Dominants train for different things. Lifestyle Dominants tend to train for their personal preferences and protocols, whereas I get the impression that Gorean Masters also train for more widely practiced norms such as slave positions, serves, etc.

That sort of training is much more visible than say.. the specifics regarding preparation of my morning coffee which rise to the level of being ritualistic in their specificity (but would, outwardly, not appear to be unusual in the least and can even be done in full view of vanillas).

An exception might be high protocol Dominants, who often train as elaborately as Goreans.

Hope that adds to some understanding.

John

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/29/2005 1:33:08 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64
For example in the local dungeon I play in out of ten whip Masters only two of them know that the cracker is the only part of the whip that's supposed to touch someone.

Well that depends on how you want to hit them or what you're going for.

And to me that's just training as a skill. A slave can master the artistry of any instrument, whether it be a flogger or a violin. Whether they have the intuition or proclivity to use it and make it come alive for another person is another issue.

(in reply to plantlady64)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/29/2005 1:39:55 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Good point, Emerald. I know of many slaves/submissives that Top others during play (they don't Top their Master, of course). Some are even ProDommes. And no, they're not switches.

Knowing how to throw a whip does not make one a Dominant. It is, as you stated aptly, simply a skill that anyone (to their ability) may acquire.

John

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/29/2005 1:47:06 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
Good point, Emerald. I know of many slaves/submissives that Top others during play (they don't Top their Master, of course).

That might be true in gorean, but I know some slaves and subs who DO top their masters. We've had that discussion before in the "topping from the bottom" talks.

Granted it's not common and the most likely reaction you get from any sub who considers topping their own dom ranges from horror to disgust to hysterical laughter...but it DOES happen.

But since this is in the gorean specific section, I guess everything I should take all generalities as applicable to that group alone.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/29/2005 1:52:22 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Another good point, Emerald. Sensation play (Topping for a flogging, for instance) is all about the sensation itself.. the feeling of the activity which does not (necessarily) involve any submission or control.

I also know of Dominants who bottom (they are, admittedly, rare) but not many of them bottom to their submissives (who tend to feel a bit squeemish about Topping their Master). Most bottom to someone else.

For Dominants that bottom, it's no different than getting a massage (ie: just another pleasurable tactile sensation).

John

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 9/30/2005 3:49:25 PM   
tarnishedhalo777


Posts: 119
Status: offline 		my ex had trained me to flog/top-it was something i did for him....the only pleasure i got out of it,was ...(knowing he was a pain slut)..he was pleased.
i however am not sadistic,needless to say...it did not last long,lol.
took me awhile to figure out even tho i was topping in the physical sense-i am indeed submissive...basically,no submission on his part/nor any control on mine....

_____________________________

I will not die the death of loneliness by being afraid to love and afraid to get hurt. I will not commit figurative suicide by leaving my potential underdeveloped because I am afraid to take risks.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 10/6/2005 11:02:47 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		Seriously,Gor had very little to do with SM. Norman seemed to concentrate more on bondage-pain play was for punishment. I went through the topping and proud of it stage years ago,it effects me with a tremendous yawn these days.

What intrigues me about gorean ritual and training is it's practical and esthetic aspects. It's about individuals using their talents in a cooperative sense. Family,stability,taking pride in one's work.

The bdsm scene is chaotic,filled with gossiping and backstabbbing,and lots of truly infantile attitudes-by comparison. It doesn't take a lot to learn to swing an impact toy, or slap and pinch things with your hands. 12 year olds can do it as well as most 'experts" I have seen in clubs..

But to be able to organize a household and livelyhood,and make it run smoothly and joyously?

THAT my friends,is a VALUABLE skill.

Bdsm is just a game.

(in reply to tarnishedhalo777)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 10/7/2005 7:04:40 AM   
nenakajira


Posts: 221
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		Don't be fooled.. we have our own levels of gossip and back-stabbing. Granted, it is more amoung the girls than the Men.. but you do find it. You get that kind of interaction in almost any social group. I sometimes wonder if the first languages were created just so one person could say to another "did you see that bone she had in her hair. it is so last year!" *grins*

Far be it for me to defend BDSM but.. a skill is a skill. And sexual/sensual skills have their own place in the world. Anyone can have sex.. but to some it is an artform. Something to be studied and perfected. The same is true of BDSM.... anyone can learn to swing a whip without causing permanent injury... but it can be an artform in its own right. The ability to bring pleasure is a wonderful skill that can be studied and improved upon throughout our lives.. for those with the interest... and some people "specialize" :)

-nena{R}

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Skilled with a whip vs. Training a slave - 10/7/2005 8:00:41 AM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		True,I just hapen to find more pleasure overall in the day to day affairs of life-and think people often make far too big a deal over sex.

In the current society,it's vastly overrated.

(in reply to nenakajira)
Profile   Post #: 18
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