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RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 12:06:31 PM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		I cant speak for everyone in general about having issues with a class of people but I will speak from my point of view regardless,,,,I find that especially among the submissive trend in the BDSM scene today there are alot of them that have a problem with the word slut, whore or any of the other socially offensive words that are the "thing" not to say in the vanilla world. I do find it entertaining that alot, I dont speak for the majority or imply that I do, of the submissive has conformed alot of dominants to their standards. I do understand that a submissive holds power but the social impact they are haveing in my opinoin is wreaking havoc among a lifestyle that the Dominants are to be in control. There was a thread in the general discussion about the very subject I am speaking about and I gave it my 2 cents worth whether I get flamed or not really dosent matter. The thread was labeled "x".I do see that alot of people have emotional issues disguised as a Hard Limit. Or simply a limit that has been forbidden to cross or you wont recieve the precious "gift" of submission they offer a Dominant. I havent fallen off the water melon truck last week and landed in this lifestyle.

Master Six

_____________________________

I wish you well

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 12:17:46 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Six, well emotional issues can be as mutch a hard limit as refusing to do such and such sexual thing, there are thing i would not do, not ever, those are my hard limits, i also have what is called soft limits, well that is more things i am nervous aboute things i think would be emotionaly taxing for me to do, but whit work i can get to the point of me doing it. To have some limits do not mean that the Dominant is not in charge, a army officer can not kill his men, that is a limit to him, do that men he is not in charge of his men? no it simply mean there is rules that also he must follow.

nena point taken, i do not agree whit you but i understand what you mean.

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 12:28:25 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

"precious gift"

gags

sorry just had to


starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 12:34:22 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		Well,if we are talking about the "precious gift" of emasculation....... Can I get an exchange?

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 3:24:28 PM   
krys


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

It have happend several times, did i mention the chat room episode this time, no, nor am i the only one that ahve this problem, and in eatch event i have replied politly, i am not Gorean, nor do i wish to be, i am just here to learn, and as i said it is not just chatrooms, it is also in mails i get, and it is not just me.


You aren't going to learn anything about Goreans if you expect them to alter their behavior in your presence. You would learn what Goreans altering their behavior for your personal comfort level are like. That is (a) not really helpful if you actually want to learn about Goreans and (b) a little unfair for you to expect that anyone else should behave as you would prefer them to.

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 3:29:18 PM   
krys


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop
I have little respect for masters who show so little emotional control as to call ANYONE slut...


But kajira do not consider it insulting to be referred to as "slut" or a variety of other names that the average woman on the street would slap you for. Actually, its usually considered an affectionate term. So if you are IN a Gorean chat room, why should they be expected to alter their behavior for someone else's benefit or expectations? Do you walk into someone else's home, do you tell them "Get your feet off your coffee table, we don't put our feet on the coffee table at my house!"? Tact is not telling someone else how they should behave in the confines of their own environment.

_____________________________

Krys

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 4:27:23 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		I understand that now,maybe the op does as well.

It still does not address treating a class of people rudely,just because they happen to be in that class,does it? The op was refferencing a bit more than a few words here. Masters can still have manners-it shows nobility to be able to treat your inferiors with at least a small amount of respect.

It means you have no fear of them,it shows strength.

< Message edited by JustaTop -- 10/7/2005 4:28:59 PM >

(in reply to krys)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 4:59:49 PM   
krys


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		Okay. Treating an entire class of people (in this case Goreans) as if they are out of line for acting like Goreans in a Gorean environment, just because they happen to be Goreans, is rude.

This thought may not have occurred to anyone, but perhaps someone referring to an owned submissive woman in a Gorean environment as "slut", instead of being rude, was trying to be inclusive. Owned women who have submitted in the Gorean lifestyle are slaves, they are kajira. There are not distinctions such as "submissive but not a slave" or "a slave but not your slave" amongst Goreans. Calling someone who's self-created image would make one assume that they are kajira or seeking to be one "slut" in a Gorean context can be a way of saying "Welcome, we will treat you as one of us".

What is considered rude is defined by its context. In some places, it would be rude not to burp after a good meal, or to attempt to shake someone's hand. Treating an entire "class" of people in a manner that is considered polite or affectionate within the confines of that group of people in their own environment is not rude.

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 5:01:16 PM   
edana


Posts: 594
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline 		Well said, slut! <grin>

_____________________________

In service,

edana

"Discipline turns talent into ability"

(in reply to krys)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 5:08:08 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		I think you are still not getting my point here.

I was actually speaking of Gorean masters who treat female slaves, as a class, rudely.

What say you to that? Is it a sign of affection?

Maybe I am missing something here,but we don't call those "Masters",generally.

We call them "misogynists"

What say you? It IS what the op was asking about,and I have not so far seen a clear answer on it. Can you clarify it for us?

< Message edited by JustaTop -- 10/7/2005 5:09:39 PM >

(in reply to krys)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 5:17:24 PM   
Delvin


Posts: 151
Joined: 8/23/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Why does a slave need to expect respect ?

Why does a slave have to draw lines of what they want before entering a "relationship" ?

----

There are many views on why a slave mentions her needs and wants, some of us call them limits, be it hard or soft, and ultimately it is a way to find a resonable life with someone. To be so completely anal about billybob calling nancyjane a slut and nancyjane now crying to everyone in the schoolyard about it seems a bit.... I'm not sure... gradeschool ?

If a Gorean, or a Klingon or perhaps a Vulcan calls you a slut and you don't like that, I would suggest taking out your laserslut3000 and shooting them in the bagwa

Have a wonderful day E/everyone :)




(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 5:24:08 PM   
krys


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop
I think you are still not getting my point here.
I was actually speaking of Gorean masters who treat female slaves, as a class, rudely.
What say you to that? Is it a sign of affection?
Maybe I am missing something here,but we don't call those "Masters",generally.
We call them "misogynists"
What say you? It IS what the op was asking about,and I have not so far seen a clear answer on it. Can you clarify it for us?


Can you define "rude"? Who are the "we" that are judging them? Based on what standard - a non-Gorean one?

I don't find the behavior addressed in the OP to be rude, but then again, I am kajira. If you think that Gorean men are all misogynists you definately do not get it. The ones I have had the pleasure of meeting have not hated women, they have a profound appreciation for them.

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 5:38:48 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		That's the point I was making. I have hung around Goreans in the past,and I liked them. Both online and off. Yet Gorean masters have this stigma of being misogynistic.

You hear it over and over again.......I understand the delight of being able to have fun with your property,and do the "cave man" thing when it suits you. I see less poor behavior overall amoung Goreans than I do in any given bdsm club.

So my real question here is,are the online wannabe goreans giving you all a bad name? Or do you think it comes from something else?

Otherwise,why would you hear so many repeated complaints,and NOT just from non Goreans? I actually watched Leonidas ban a certain jarl, who was being a twit, from his chat room a while back.The man was acting like a nutcase,going off on everyone over the slightest issue. They figured stress in his personal life was tweaking him out.

Leonidas kicked him,and he kept trying to come back. Then he started going off on Leonidas' slave in pm's,then Leonidas. ( I had already put him on ignore,or he'd probably have gone off on me too-just because I was still in there)That's about the time I decided I had better places to hang out-and I was actually very interested in the whole thing-but not in that sort of company. I mean,who NEEDS to put up with that kind of idiocy?

But even before then,his behavior towards the slaves had seemed very insecure,and even his initial greetings to them bordered on rudeness. Could it be more about individuals who have little impulse control giving the competent Masters a bad name?

After all,this does NOT set a stellar example for others.

Which is why I brought this up-if you can't control yourself-who CAN you control?

(in reply to krys)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 6:51:11 PM   
krys


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		Ahh the bad apple spoiling the whole bunch phenom again. That topic has been addressed several times on this board. Thats less of an issue with the Gorean lifestyle and more of a personal conflict of an individual party.

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 7:00:23 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		True enough,but when you see the same thing a number of times,from a number of individuals......kinda makes you wonder,hmm?

Now I was around these folks long enough to realize they were actually pretty with it and fun-no hassles there. But the nit picking got a bit dicey towards the end as well.It was a but like being around a bunch of purists in a medieval recreation group. Difference being,the medievalists had more to work with than just words on paper

I understood the philosophy in general,it seemed very attractive,and geared towards practicality and stability. (something bdsm rarely offers-it being geared more towards relationships that allow people to play-rather than a relationship meant to do more than that.)

.

< Message edited by JustaTop -- 10/7/2005 7:01:20 PM >

(in reply to krys)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 8:20:23 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi
Some resent discussions have lead me to this topic. In the Gor books, free women were respected, surly the men considerd themself superior yes, but they were not rude to a free woman. Free women were fellow men`s mothers, sisters, daugthers and compannions.


Yes and in the books Free women were also captured and enslaved, enslaved as punishment. Free women also willingly gave up their freedom and begged a collar finally finding fulfillment in being enslaved to a Gorean man.

quote:


The Goreans one often meet online, and i am not talking RPG sites, i am talking sites like this one is often werry rude to women


There have been many threads on how people online either in chat or forums are ruder than in person. This is mainly due to internet use being anonymous. I do not believe that Goreans are more rude than any other people online. I feel that this comment in the Gorean forums is lacking in manners.

quote:


but basicaly all women that are not a slave, are free.


This statement is incorrect. You are stating that women are 'Gorean Free Women' if they are not kajira (Gorean slaves). They are non Gorean women. A Gorean free woman is a very special person steeped in and abiding by Gorean culture and norms.

quote:


Now i am not saying they should act the way some feminists want, the sensible Goreans i have met act more like oldfashiond gentlmen, making sure a woman get safely home, and things like that, and for me that is an oldfshiond girl that is just charming not rude.


Gorean Masters take care of valuable property , you are viewing that as charming and romantic. While I love romance , Gor is harsh which forces me to lift the veil from your eyes.

quote:


What i mean by rude is that some Gorean men call all women slut, now in the books if you call a free woman slut, one of three things is likely to happen, a bitchslap, her walking away head held heigh to show how little your coment means for her, or if she is rich, you getting a not to frindly encounter whit her guards.


I have never met a Gorean Master who called all women slut. I am sure I have met alot more of them than you have. Exactly how many Gorean men have you met?

quote:


In the Gor books women is considerd below men in rank, and they are considerd to be the ones that are ruled, not the ones the rule, but they are not considerd less worth than the men, there is a differance, many Gorean men i have talked whit have the women is weaker than men, women need to be lead and protected, mutch like the Victorian women and children first mentality, this is fine, but some seam to think I am Gorean therefore all women are slaves and all women must obey me for I have a penis.


Women are considered to be different than men. I do not know any Gorean men that feel that all women must obey them. Maybe if you met some people offline you would not be having so many problems....

quote:


It was mentiond erlier pepole not learning the lifestyle, just adopiting thing from online, well this tendency to be rude or even cruel to women in general is one of the only things i have found to be a problem whit it in my opinion.


You post under the guise of wanting to learn and you are obviously a stranger to Gor. So here is a tidbit of knowledge for you... the Gorean word for stranger is the same as the word for enemy.

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Women in general. - 10/7/2005 8:51:03 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		If I chose to refer to a kajira as a slut or not is my choice alone. That I chose not to abuse said kajira who is owned by another, is an indication that I may respect her owner and any issues I have regarding her would be reported to hew owner and left for him to deal with (generally).

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 37
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