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color of the silks - 4/25/2008 6:07:46 PM

leilani1

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please she would like to know the colors of the silk and the ranks one would wear them . and a ideal how one would wear them. and a very good place to learn and study about being a gorean slave please.

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RE: color of the silks - 4/25/2008 6:36:29 PM

ZebRarius

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::sigh::

Does it never end?

The colors of the silks are whatever an owner decides they will be. There are no "ranks."

Virgins are sometimes referred to as "white silk" and non-virgins as "red silk." It has nothing to do with what they are wearing or what color it is.

As for a very good place to learn and study... are you ready? Write this down:

The 26 Gor books written by John Norman. I recommend starting with Tarnsman, and working your way up in order. THERE IS NO OTHER SOURCE. Any website and any self-professed expert - including me - can only draw from the books for definitive answers. I especially caution you against any websites. If you are not familiar with the books, you cannot accurately gauge the veracity of a website.

Why are we constantly forced to repeat this?

IWYW,
Z

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RE: color of the silks - 4/25/2008 6:37:45 PM

Leatherist

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I prefer the "tye dyed girl"

Watch for the new Norman sequel "Hippies of Gor"

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RE: color of the silks - 4/25/2008 7:00:38 PM

Hiskajirah

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Greetings Masters
Greetings Mistressess
Greetings girls
Greetings visitors

Greetings leilani

What Master ZebRarius told you is very true. The silk colors and ranks were and I suppose still are an onlinism for chatrooms and those using them for roleplay to semi-roleplay. I don't consider all chatrooms of gor, purely roleplay but a place to be allowed expression in words, leaving out all the unrealistic parts from the books that cannot be lived offline. Sometimes you might here of white, yellow, red. It's just a way someone runs their room. And in many there are no silks at all, you just play naked, unless you are actually chatting naked, it's playing a role even still. A white silk was really a virgin, but how many of us are really virgins? Hardly none, unless there's an 18 year old girl just starting out in gor and actually is. Red silk is a non virgin and there are no other colors even in the books. One wore what pleased their Masters, from nothing to hand me downs to pieces of garmet of any kind. The only way to truly understand is the entire 26 book series and as a slave I would also recommend not skipping through the series as many do but start from the very beginning.

Best wishes to you on your journey and be careful you are not mislead.

I wish the Masters well
I wish the Mistresses well
I wish the girls well
and I wish the visitors well.

Respectfully,
~twinkle

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RE: color of the silks - 4/25/2008 11:50:20 PM

ygraine

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Hello everyone and good early morning,
I think the eco-friendly silks are the most important ones, the true "Green Goreans" just let them go nekkid.
Y

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RE: color of the silks - 4/26/2008 12:13:57 AM

ZebRarius

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I do seem to remember a couple of spots in the books that confuse people. There is one scene in one of the later books (in the 20s somewhere) where they dock a boat and are met by the girls from a particular tavern who are, if memory serves, dressed in yellow. This has led to the misconception that tavern slaves wear yellow silks when it means nothing of the sort. It means simply that the management of that tavern chose to dress all their girls in yellow. If you go into a Hooters, you will find all the girls in orange. Nothing special about that, they simply picked a color to dress their girls in that will provide brand recognition.

Early on (Tarnsman, I think) a state slave is described as having a gray tunic. Again, I'm depending on memory. Note that silks are not described. The color gray again has no other significance other than to act as a common color to identify slaves who are owned by the state.

Last time... it's all in the books and it ain't real hard to figure out. Just read 'em.

Z

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RE: color of the silks - 4/26/2008 12:45:54 AM

Ormus

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Ormus now speaks.

Ormus recalls reading that the training levels indicated by slave silk colors were created many years ago by a female slave trainer named Kestrel from an irc channel named Port Kar. It was done because she had problems keeping track of who had learned which things in the training she was doing. Ormus does not know the truth of this story but it was Kestrel or someone using that name who wrote the origin story and said that she was the one who was responsible. Ormus apologizes that he does not recall when or where he read it except that it was many years ago. It might have been on the Gorean Public Boards.

Ormus gives his thanks to those who have heard his words.

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RE: color of the silks - 4/26/2008 1:21:36 AM

ZebRarius

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Your story may be true. One thing is sure and that is that the entire concept of silk colors having meaning and slaves being ranked by them is most certainly an invention from the IRC days. It damn sure didn't come out of the books.

I had thought the silliness on IRC to be unsurpassable - until I discovered an entirely new generation of role-playing knuckleheads on a certain 3D avatar based interactive simulation.

You will find to this very day that "restricted" slaves are referred to, quite erroneously, as "white silk."

I am personally responsible (guilty?) of introducing a couple of conventions to online Gor, but I am definitely not responsible for the whole silk color debacle.

Z

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RE: color of the silks - 4/26/2008 8:30:13 AM

Leonidas

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Rogue of Gor, 15th book. Tavern owner Tasdron dressed his girls in yellow. Peggy, one of his slaves, was a major character. It's probably where the "Yellow is for tavern girls" came from. It's mentioned in several places that tavern owners liked to dress their girls in distinctive colors that were associated with the tavern. Gorean brand identity at its finest.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 4/26/2008 8:31:57 AM >

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RE: color of the silks - 4/26/2008 8:31:54 AM

Mitzie

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Tal and greetings
                            Having just attended a UK gathering there was a topic in our group re what slaves should wear the outcome of the topic is the slave will wear what her Master wishes be it nothing or in jeans or head to toe covered.

I know FM whose slaves when at home are naked most of the time and sometimes will wear a light wrap of any colour red white green yellow ect.

online in the Black Tarn we might say there red silk but they are not wearing red silk its an indication they have been opened but thats because we are restricted online to how things really are offline.

I am smiling as I say this because a long time ago someone said online is nothing compared to how things are real time well I agree with those words now but I hope with some of the knowledge I have that I can prepare people for real time and not just in a role play enviroment.

                     well wishes

                        Mitzie

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RE: color of the silks - 4/26/2008 11:08:30 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Greetings Zeb,

When I first started to seek those that identify as Goreans, on the internet, I ran into many more role players and such, than I did those that actually tried to understand and live the ways of Gor. So it is no wonder to me, that these questions pop up more often than one would think and hope.

Live well,
Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZebRarius

::sigh::

Does it never end?

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RE: color of the silks - 4/26/2008 11:28:57 AM

Karynn

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Tal Zeb,

You are one of my long time Gorean heros. I have a few and you're in that list. I knew you existed long before we met and then I came and found you more than once via avenues provided online and found myself in awe of the legend.

You asked, "Does it never end?" and my thought when I read that was an understanding of how repetitive some of it must seem to someone who's put so much of his life into the educational process of Goreans, first his own group and then an ever expanding group of forums and people. I could only vaguely understand how frustrating it might seem, to have answered something 6 months ago, and then find a whole crop of new faces and names appear and the same question arises once more.

I offer this encouragement. First I hope it doesn't end. I hope that those people who are asking this question this week are a new group from the people who asked it 6 months ago. I hope that those who sought the simple bits of book knowledge and were told to go buy the books 6 months ago did that, read them and now come back to ask meatier questions. Even the meaty questions are repetitive though. I hope that the teens that heard about Gor when they were 16 are now 26 and consider applying Gor to their lives in ways that enhance their relationships and bring our human nature back to its natural order. I hope that those who ask the questions now are the ones who answer them in another ten years.

Of course there are always a few who are deliberately thick, hard headed or stubborn. Every now and then, it may appear that though you've given someone the equipment to answer a question, they return and ask it again. Within those circumstances, it is quite easy to wish that you as Rarius did have some sort of text sword and could just slice up the note and put it in the refuse heap. Since that isn't going to happen, I imagine patience must be found.

If it helps to know, I think you've made an incredible impact on Gorean lives all over the world. I think the ability you have to share Gor and teach it makes a difference. I believe there are generations and generations to come who will learn of Gor because of what you and others first provided to teach it. There are always going to be a few numskulls. Many though will absorb the answers, grow and then teach one day as well. You helped fascilitate that.

My best to you and yours,
K

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RE: color of the silks - 4/26/2008 4:39:38 PM

Camerius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

Rogue of Gor, 15th book. Tavern owner Tasdron dressed his girls in yellow. Peggy, one of his slaves, was a major character. It's probably where the "Yellow is for tavern girls" came from. It's mentioned in several places that tavern owners liked to dress their girls in distinctive colors that were associated with the tavern. Gorean brand identity at its finest.

Well, I remember only two distinct slave silks for the slaves of the books.

Those of the White Silks for covering the virgins/untouched and Red Silks for the non-virgins. As for the rest, I agree with Zeb's line of "One thing is sure and that is that the entire concept of silk colors having meaning and slaves being ranked by them is most certainly an invention from the IRC days. It damn sure didn't come out of the books."

I don't recall that any slave being called a Yellow Silk, Blue Silk, or even Orange with Large Pink Polka Dots set on a Brown Argyll background silkslave ( he really missed out on that one, I guess ) anywhere in the books besides those two terms of description.

A slave would, in the books, wear as little or as much as her owner would like or allow her to have, same goes for types of garment, fabric or in this case, colour.

With this said, there ARE some cases where certain kinds of slaves would be dressed in the same colour, such as the State owned slave ( Grey ) or the slaves of the Tuchuks ( with their Black and Red ). As for the study in yellow, I find that there are at least one more Tavern slave that wear those coloured silks, that of Elizabeth Cardwell in the tavern of Hesius in Lydius ( Hunters of Gor ).

To me that speaks more of a personal taste by the owner in question, or maybe a slave silk fashion ( like the decree from Marlenus that the slave dresses should be made even more short than they already were ), or just that Mr. Norman simply like that colour for some of the slaves in his books.

That last one is my own private speculation, and since he's not here to tell us anything different it will stand as such. But then he too dressed the slaves in a lot of other colours.....

Be well

Camerius

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RE: color of the silks - 4/26/2008 4:52:56 PM

Camerius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ZebRarius

::sigh::

Does it never end?

Yeah, Zeb, seems like we have to go through the same stuff over and over and over and over again. I too have a notion that this one will keep popping up from time to time, just like I have with some of the more heavier stuff.

"Funny" thing is that the cure for ignorance is called knowledge and are so easily obtainable. It can even be reached by a simple "plant ass to seat and read a book"- motion! Lo and behold the wonder and magic of knowledge being gained!

Only sad thing about this, is that that particular motion are so disused as a remedy these days. A shame it is....

IWYW

Camerius

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RE: color of the silks - 4/26/2008 5:00:48 PM

DiurnalVampire

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Anyone find it ironic that *I* (and we all know I am not Gorean) could have answered this question?
I know I get annoyed with those that beat a dead horse without even trying to find out if their question was already asked. At least she didn't start the post with "pardon my ignorance..."

DV

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RE: color of the silks - 4/27/2008 1:00:03 AM

SimonofTabor

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It's been a long time since I was in online roleplay chat much, but it seems that the misconceptions and lack of imagination that existed then are still around.

I pretty much concur with all that has been said above. The nature and colour of slave clothing is entirely up to her owner. There was a lot of variation in clothing (in colour, style, cut, etc), and just as on Earth there were fashions that changed over time. For example, it's already been noted that generally state slaves wore grey, but early on in the books that wasn't the case - they wore white tunics with diagonal stripes of one colour or other. other things that often varied according to fashion was the neckline, the height of the hemline, the cut beneath the arms. Even within the predominant fashions these things varied, just as they do here, and then there are other variations like the use, or not, of the disrobing loop.

It does seem common for tavern slaves to wear yellow, but as has been noted that is also not universally true. For example there was a tarvern in Ar called the Green Tarn, which, as you might imagine, had a green theme, and that included the colour of the slave tunics.

There is a little evidence for varying the colour of slave garment during training, but certainly not to the extent that you will find in many online roleplay venues. It seems that slaves within the House of Cernus in Ar, for example, wore red or white garments while in training, though clearly that was an indication of whether or not they were virgins, and did not reflect the level of training. Fully trained slaves in the House of Cernus usually wore yellow.

As well as the colour of clothing varying a lot, there were various other variations that could be used. Sometimes garments were hemmed with a different colour, or sometime they had logos on them (such as the white and yellow 'Mu' that was used by Mintar in Kajira of Gor). Sometimes tunics were even patterned. In addition to the stripes mentioned above, in at least one place the tunic was described as having a floral pattern, probably applied by silk-screening. When was the last time anyone in a roleplay venue used any similar variations to these? That's the sort of thing I was referring to when I mentioned the lack of imagination that was (and probably still is) common.

Another thing that is generally ignored online is that the collars often matched the silks in colour. They were often not the simple steel bands that people imagine, but were often enameled in the same colour as the garments she wore.

Simon

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RE: color of the silks - 4/27/2008 6:03:41 AM

Camerius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimonofTabor

It's been a long time since I was in online roleplay chat much, but it seems that the misconceptions and lack of imagination that existed then are still around.

The same goes for here, Simon. All I ever ventured for in that area was an overall collection of some 30-45 minutes or so spent in one of those types of channels on bondage.com's IRC server, and after which I left laughing and went elsewhere.
I haven't been back to that kind of place since, likewise it's been such a long time ago that I have ( blissfully ) forgotten the name of the channel, other that it was called #Gorean-something and had some funny NKZ, NFSZ and the likes....you have now entered the Twillight Zone, go figure.

Now, as a sidenote here in a more general direction, there's nothing wrong with roleplay in itself ( Gorean or otherwise ), as long as all that's participating understands that it's a game or simulation and nothing more. A lot of good can infact be derived from roleplaying, such as in teaching valuable information of various sorts or clearifying customs and such, it's only when deciet, falsefication or even downright lying comes into the picture that it becomes a bad thing.

Most of what I have come across over time is that of the last three parts when dealing with Gorean Roleplay.

The deciet as to whom and what they are not online but more importantly offline.

The falsefication of the "material" they use from the books themselfs for furthering their own personal agenda, sexual preference and the likes.

And lastly, the downright lying when dealing with people that comes for searching for a better understanding of the books/philosophy and ethos, "Ya know, all to be Gorean is about is to have slaves and honor, dude. Get one of each and we'll make you First Sword of this XXX Gorean castle with a free priestking tarn to be your online homestone...".

This is where the real problems starts, and the roleplaying goes into a wrong direction......

IWYW,

Camerius

Edit: I forgot to mention that what I have come across of bad/wrong Gorean Roleplay has been from numerous websites dealing in that area, on my time to time spent on the hunt for illegal bookfiles of Mr. Norman's books.

Some of them deal in that area too, besides teaching or informing their readers with either pure bullshit or stolen material on Gorean matters and topics.

< Message edited by Camerius -- 4/27/2008 6:20:08 AM >

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RE: color of the silks - 4/27/2008 6:30:56 AM

Terrah

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Tal Everyone,

I'm sure we could sit here all day and discuss colors of dressing a slave, or what was used to dress a slave with or what was not in fact. That varied within the cities and subcultures of Gor for the most part. What Turians did with one dress and Tuchuks with another, or Torvaldslanders are all a matter of reading.

Oh by the way, in book 16 I believe in Guardsman, when Jason was ambushing a compound the girls who met the ships were all wearing white long dresses at the time. They were not virgins surely, but simply putting on a show for the sailors they thought were someone else.

And the thing I never get is, why is a slave asking this in regular forum instead of the slave thread? Go figure.

I wish you well,

Terrah..

PS Kestral was not the first to start the silk thing, heck that was in place long before she was online. I believe it started in S&S as the men there wanted to know what girls has had the most experience, but it was already in place when I came to Gor way back when pow wow was open, some.. oh my to date myself now.. uhm... 14 years maybe? OH well.. see ya.

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RE: color of the silks - 4/27/2008 7:36:07 AM

leilani1

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where would one go to learn to be a gorean slave ( she wants to be a real slave not a want a be slave)

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RE: color of the silks - 4/27/2008 8:59:54 AM

ZapRobo

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To save those who answer this one regular-like, allow a random passerby to give it a go

1. A Gorean Master (for only they can tell you what they want a slave to do)
2. The Gor Books of John Norman (which I am reading currently and hence why lurking in these parts!)

... seems simple enough to me!

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