BDSM on Wikipedia (Full Version)

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DCWoody -> BDSM on Wikipedia (5/2/2008 7:40:47 PM)

So I edit wikipedia, been doing it minorly for quite a while, typos here and there etc....recently however I've become quite involved, and I stumbled across the article for sex slave.

When I say stumbled, I mean I typed sex slave in the search box :).

What came up, was an article about nonconsensual sex slavery, forced prostitution etc....and it wasn't easy, or obvious, how to get to the alternative 'sex slave (bdsm)' article, and when I did get to it, I saw that it was rubbish. I started tracking down other bdsm articles and essentially saw that the entire topic of bdsm is in a bad way on wikipedia, for example Dominant/top and submissive/bottom have been lumped into the same article by a well meaning but misguided editor.

So, I've come here to say that I'm going to be working on that area on wikipedia, and to invite anyone who wishes to help, to help.

I feel this could make a big difference to the understanding of bdsm, when you consider that when you google 'BDSM' the wikipedia article is the number one hit, and that's the same for almost anything else you put in as well.

You can help simply by clicking any of these links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_slavery_(BDSM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_(BDSM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom_(BDSM)

and clicking 'edit page', it's that simple, but if you're likely to stick around it would be very helpful to sign up for an account.

A few basic pieces of advice for editing wikipedia....

1: Don't write anything if you're going to be offended or upset when people completely change it around, edit your grammar, or simply delete it.

2: you're not writing the article alone (unless it's on an obscure/small interest subject), if you disagree with other peoples changes, or they disagree with yours, it's best to talk about it on the talk page of that article, for example here is the talk page of the BDSM article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:BDSM

3: Be polite

4: Neutrality and notability are important, you can't write that being a sex slave is awesome just because you think it is....and you can't write about yourself, or your website, unless you or it are famous....and even then, it's frowned upon and people will be watching closely to make sure you're not just advertising.

5+ there are lots and lots of rules and policies on wikipedia, but two of these rules are 'ignore all the rules if they don't make sense for that situation' and 'don't bite the newbies', so as long as you mean well and are willing to work with the system, don't worry too much about them.
go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars if you want to make a start on reading the main ones.

6:Be warned, you might find it starts to take up an awful lot of your free time

7:Try to avoid going to controversial articles like abortion or global warming and arguing...those subjects are, rightly or wrongly, firmly in control of the average american democrat party member.



Oh and for those of you that don't know what wikipedia is, go here to find out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia :)


I hope the mods don't view this as some sort of spam and delete it.


Wood





abcbsex -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/2/2008 7:46:42 PM)

This is an excellent post, I hope more knowledgeable people take the time to contribute. I know some people whose sole source of information is from Wikipedia, it would be great to be fairly represented in that case.




GreedyTop -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/2/2008 8:07:28 PM)

oh, jeez, DCW... now you've just given me something else to fritter away my time on,at work! LOL

Thanks for posting this, though...  I'll probably take a peek at it when I get home later, and see if I can contribute in some small way :)




beltainefaerie -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/2/2008 10:56:45 PM)

Wow, it could be hours of editing fun!  Thanks!




Alumbrado -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/3/2008 7:28:05 AM)

So the outcome of Wiki articles rests in the hands of people with plenty of free time, and strong opinions...sort of like the jury system?[:D]




TheHungryTiger -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/3/2008 9:56:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

So the outcome of Wiki articles rests in the hands of people with plenty of free time, and strong opinions...sort of like the jury system?[:D]
Its worse than that. It rests in the hands of people who actualy think 'what is the difrence between a sub and a slave' is so important an issue that each indvidual term needs to be seperated onto its own page.




chellekitty -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/4/2008 10:02:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

So the outcome of Wiki articles rests in the hands of people with plenty of free time, and strong opinions...sort of like the jury system?[:D]


Wikipedia....we're not leaving the next generations much of a future, so we might as well create an interesting past!




SteelofUtah -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/4/2008 11:30:28 AM)

See there is a HUGE problem here.

Some people use wiki as the end all be all answer. However ANYONE can Edit it. So anyone with an opinion can edit the definitions.

I HATE (I mean thatr serious kinda Hate) Definition threads because NO ONE DEFINITION defines the Majorioty of ANYTHING when it comes to BDSM.

The Sub vs Slave debate is just the beginning.

Define Dominant as a Noun.
Define Submissive as a Noun.

Then you get how is a little girl different than an adult baby.

Define the diference between Pedophilia as an afliction of the mind and the mental desire between a Daddy Dom and his little girl?

By the time you get done defining one thing you find yourself caught between two very different types of that one thing.

Dom Vs. Jarl Vs. Sadist Vs.Top Vs. Switch

If just can't be done and keep everyone happy.

If you don't care about everyone staying happy then who has to leave? Which Kinks will no longer fall under the canopy of BDSM and who gets to decide who leaves? One person who likes to edit?

Truth be told the more we try to define things the more broad the definition gets.

And Finally in closing is the person who defines these things the person who lives this lifestyle in EVERY MEDIUM? Are the Online as well as real life because the definitions change between the two. Are thet also Gorean Lifestyle and Gorean Role Play? are that Both a Sadist and a Masochist? Because sadly each has thier own idea of what is what.

I know what I mean when I use the words and I am able to explain what I mean when discussing it with other people. I don't need a Lexicon Devoted to the world of what it is that we do.

Wiki is NOT a proper lexicon to define anything letr alone what it is that we do.

Steel




MsStarlett -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/4/2008 6:02:59 PM)

I have read some of the articals that you pointed to.  I'm glad SOMEONE is trying to fix them.




Stephann -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/8/2008 3:44:03 PM)

Ok, incredible dork that I am, I revamped the Sexual Slavery section on Wikipedia.  This is your chance to laugh at my editorial skills :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_slavery_%28BDSM%29

Stephan




GreedyTop -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/8/2008 3:50:50 PM)

Nicely done :)




Stephann -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/8/2008 4:11:21 PM)

Hi Woody,

I think this explains what happened to the original Top and Bottom pages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Top_and_bottom_in_sex_and_BDSM

Stephan




BitaTruble -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/8/2008 9:52:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Ok, incredible dork that I am, I revamped the Sexual Slavery section on Wikipedia.  This is your chance to laugh at my editorial skills :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_slavery_%28BDSM%29

Stephan


 
I would change this:
 
Not all submissives are slaves, though all slaves would be considered submissives.

Not 'all' slaves would be (or are) considered submissives. Absolutes are rarely accurate and this is not one of the exceptions.

Celeste




Stephann -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/9/2008 8:56:07 AM)

Hiya Celeste,

Actually, I thought of changing that section (it was there when I started editing it) but I figured someone reading it for information would understand the underlying meaning:  that slaves are normally lumped in with submissives, when we're trying to put neat little labels on the different people in the lifestyle.  By the time a reader has achieved a working knowledge of a submissive and a slave, I doubt they'll be trying to define themselves and others according to Wiki.

Stephan




CuriousPuppy -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/10/2008 6:59:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

See there is a HUGE problem here.

Some people use wiki as the end all be all answer. However ANYONE can Edit it. So anyone with an opinion can edit the definitions.

I HATE (I mean thatr serious kinda Hate) Definition threads because NO ONE DEFINITION defines the Majorioty of ANYTHING when it comes to BDSM.

The Sub vs Slave debate is just the beginning.

Define Dominant as a Noun.
Define Submissive as a Noun.

Then you get how is a little girl different than an adult baby.

Define the diference between Pedophilia as an afliction of the mind and the mental desire between a Daddy Dom and his little girl?

By the time you get done defining one thing you find yourself caught between two very different types of that one thing.

Dom Vs. Jarl Vs. Sadist Vs.Top Vs. Switch

If just can't be done and keep everyone happy.

If you don't care about everyone staying happy then who has to leave? Which Kinks will no longer fall under the canopy of BDSM and who gets to decide who leaves? One person who likes to edit?

Truth be told the more we try to define things the more broad the definition gets.

And Finally in closing is the person who defines these things the person who lives this lifestyle in EVERY MEDIUM? Are the Online as well as real life because the definitions change between the two. Are thet also Gorean Lifestyle and Gorean Role Play? are that Both a Sadist and a Masochist? Because sadly each has thier own idea of what is what.

I know what I mean when I use the words and I am able to explain what I mean when discussing it with other people. I don't need a Lexicon Devoted to the world of what it is that we do.

Wiki is NOT a proper lexicon to define anything letr alone what it is that we do.

Steel


Wikipedia isn't to be the end all be all of anything and everything, it's just one of the most convienient ways of getting a rather nice overview of a subject you might be unfamilar with.  It also generally has enough depth by jumping to other linked articles to find out quite a bit about a subject.  Even if some of that information is wrong or debatable, it's generally going to provide plenty of information




thetammyjo -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (5/12/2008 8:18:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: abcbsex

This is an excellent post, I hope more knowledgeable people take the time to contribute. I know some people whose sole source of information is from Wikipedia, it would be great to be fairly represented in that case.


And this is why my students think I'm a bitch -- anyone writing a paper for me who uses Wiki is automatically earning an F from me for that assignment. Use sources whose authors you can check out or don't use anything outside your own head I say.




ultsub -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (7/28/2008 2:55:26 PM)

My favorite Wiki story is because there is no check on sources, one of the Detroit radio station guys went in and changed the Colorado Avalanche page during the playoff series they had with the Red Wings. Wrote stuff like the original name of the Avalanche were the Nancy Girls, their players were known for being wussies, etc. If anyone can change it, anyone will.




NormalOutside -> RE: BDSM on Wikipedia (7/28/2008 2:57:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ultsub

My favorite Wiki story is because there is no check on sources, one of the Detroit radio station guys went in and changed the Colorado Avalanche page during the playoff series they had with the Red Wings. Wrote stuff like the original name of the Avalanche were the Nancy Girls, their players were known for being wussies, etc. If anyone can change it, anyone will.

I guess if there are more people editing incorrect information in than there are people writing correct information in, it won't be worth reading anymore.  Luckily, it's 99% correct, because only about 1% of people are trying to be idiots.  :p




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