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'Free' to be Free? - 10/16/2005 9:30:13 AM

darkinshadows

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Would those that are Master and Mistress here please inform me, if it is possible or 'done' - that a woman chooses/realises to be a FreeWoman, rather than a slave, in Gorean culture - or is this a decision taken by the Masters. Can a woman, for example, be a freewoman without a Free to stand beside?

Thank You in advance.
Peace and Love

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RE: 'Free' to be Free? - 10/16/2005 10:00:33 AM

RavenofPK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

Would those that are Master and Mistress here please inform me, if it is possible or 'done' - that a woman chooses/realises to be a FreeWoman, rather than a slave, in Gorean culture - or is this a decision taken by the Masters. Can a woman, for example, be a freewoman without a Free to stand beside?

Thank You in advance.
Peace and Love

Greetings,

When a woman begins her path in the Gorean lifestyle, she *chooses* one of two status's, of which she believes best suits who and what she is. Free...or.......slave. Now, as each status has it's own separate rules, laws, or codes, so to speak, they both have one thing in common. Both a free woman and a slave are both subject to men. Once the woman makes her choice, she then must accept the consequences of that choice, and behave accordingly. Be *true* to herself, and what she represents.

For example, if a woman is free, but behaves in a "slavelike" manner around men, the men are likely to "grant her wish", so to speak, and enslave her. Those are the consequences of her actions, and behavior. In other words, she would not be allowed, by men, to behave inappropriately to her station and simply "get away with it".

As for freewomen being able to exist without a man beside her.....yes, it is possible. There are many rules and laws to the freewoman vs. slave argument, enough to write an entire book about. But in the end, it is men who determine who and what a woman is in relation to them. And if the woman wishes to continue to interact, and be a part of than man's life, or group of men, then she will comply with what is choosen for her. Or, simply be cast out.

In closing, it is said amongst Goreans that a free woman is priceless. That simply means that no monetary value, by merchant law, can be placed upon her. Gorean men tend to think of females in terms of value, monetary value.

Raven

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RE: 'Free' to be Free? - 10/16/2005 11:19:53 AM

darkinshadows

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Thank You for kindly responding Raven.
Taking something You have just mentioned, I would then ask - as an example - as I respond to You here, I call You 'Raven'. Now, is this seen as a responsible response from someone, who is not Gorean? If, as a submissive I respond to You as 'Master Raven' or 'Master' - does this intimate to Gorean Men that I am not free and as such, 'slavelike'.
I am not sure if I am making much sense here - forgive me if my efforts are not clear.

Many Thanks

Peace and Love

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.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: 'Free' to be Free? - 10/16/2005 12:20:40 PM

Leonidas

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quote:

Would those that are Master and Mistress here please inform me, if it is possible or 'done' - that a woman chooses/realises to be a FreeWoman, rather than a slave, in Gorean culture - or is this a decision taken by the Masters. Can a woman, for example, be a freewoman without a Free to stand beside?

Yes, a woman can certainly choose to remain free among Goreans. If she does, she is simply expected to behave as such, just the same as if she declares herself to be a slave, she will be expected to behave as such, and can expect to be treated as such.

I described what a Gorean free woman is like in the Free Woman vs. Domme thread. They are expected to be modest, dignified, deferential toward men, and possessed of the character traits that Goreans associate with being fit for freedom regardless of sex. As you might imagine, that describes almost nobody in the mainstream BDSM community. The few here on collarme that might fit the mold are the ones who say they're looking for an "old-fashioned" kind of relationship where their mate is in charge, but even then, they may have expectations of and about the man that they are looking for that a Gorean free woman wouldn't have.

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RE: 'Free' to be Free? - 10/16/2005 12:31:40 PM

darkinshadows

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Thank You Leonidas.

If a Free woman stands beside a Gorean Free Man then she should act accordingly. Now, in private, would the Woman be submissive or slavish to her Free Partner? Or is that an individual thing depending on the relationship? Or must she always retain that 'air'.

Thank You in advance.

Peace and Love

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.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: 'Free' to be Free? - 10/16/2005 12:54:12 PM

Leonidas

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quote:

If a Free woman stands beside a Gorean Free Man then she should act accordingly. Now, in private, would the Woman be submissive or slavish to her Free Partner? Or is that an individual thing depending on the relationship? Or must she always retain that 'air'.

Submissive, almost certainly. Slaveish? Probably not. If she expressed too much "slave need" in the bedroom, her companion might get the impression that she was better off in a collar, and he'd probably be right. That said, yes, it is an individual thing. If she were chained to the slave ring once in a while in the bedoom, you'd never hear about it. One of the things that separates a free woman from a slave girl among Goreans is that not only is dignity and modesty expected of them, but that they can also expect to have thier dignity and modesty respected. Among Goreans, one might openly comment about (or even demonstrate) the sexual heat or other intimate qualities of a slave girl that they own. One would never do so about or with their free companion, though.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 10/16/2005 12:55:28 PM >

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RE: 'Free' to be Free? - 10/16/2005 7:47:27 PM

RavenofPK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

Thank You for kindly responding Raven.
Taking something You have just mentioned, I would then ask - as an example - as I respond to You here, I call You 'Raven'. Now, is this seen as a responsible response from someone, who is not Gorean? If, as a submissive I respond to You as 'Master Raven' or 'Master' - does this intimate to Gorean Men that I am not free and as such, 'slavelike'.
I am not sure if I am making much sense here - forgive me if my efforts are not clear.

Many Thanks

Peace and Love

Greetings,

Oh boy are we getting into some fundemental differences between Gorean and BDSM here. :) But it all boils down to how Gorean folk think. I'll address that in a moment.

To first address your question: This is my own personal take on it, regardless of whose "house" (ie side of the message board) I am on. Once again the "when in Rome" addage applies. I prefer to be addressed properly when a girl of any lifestyle is interacting with me. You will even find I am less of an asshole when the proper address of Master is used. Does it mean, to me, that I have any claim upon you? Nope. Not one bit. But it does clearly establish where each party stands in relation to each other. To Goreans......the term "Master" is NOT a job description. In fact, I don't particularly like being asked if I am a "Master", like it is some job I went to college to study for. I am simply a man, who lives a lifestyle, where females of said lifestyle are required to address as "Master". It's like going to court. You don't refer to the judge by his name, even if you know him. You refer to him as "Your Honor", or "Sir", or "Judge".

Now Gorean free women do NOT address Gorean men as "Master". That is tantamount to self-enslavement. But as I have stated earlier, there are only two choices for a woman in the Gorean lifestyle......free or slave. No "part timers", or "half-way". The BDSM side, on the other hand, has several differing choices for the women, depending on momentary mood, flip of a coin, or high card-low card out of a deck of cards. Thusly, to Goreans, IF you claim submissive, or even slave, behaving as what you claim, is completely expected, and using proper address carries no more weight than living up to your proclaimed status.

As a side note to all of this, the simple fact that I am discussing this with you has everything to do with HOW you are approaching the discussion. In a pleasant, submissive posture. In the animal kingdom it is called "showing your belly". :) Like I always say...........it's not WHAT you say.......but HOW you say it that counts.

Serve well, and be pleasing.

Raven

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RE: 'Free' to be Free? - 10/17/2005 4:31:13 AM

darkinshadows

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Thank You very much in helping with my questions and I greatly appriciate You taking the time to respond.

Many Blessings to Your House.

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.dark.