Collarchat.com

Create a
Free Account		 As the Collar Turns:
 Collarchat.com - BDSM Forum

Home  Login  Search 
Espanol  Deutsch  Francais  Italiano  Portugues 

RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar Page: <<   < prev  2 3 4 5 [6]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/23/2008 12:19:14 AM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		~edited to add FR~
 
A new poster that's a real twue Gorean....where....where... dammit I must've missed it again.
 
Touchyourmind

< Message edited by Totalmaster4you -- 5/23/2008 12:20:13 AM >

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/23/2008 12:31:07 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I know,I keep doing that too.....ok,who hid the damned manual?

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to Totalmaster4you)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/23/2008 7:07:21 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Your implying patience is needed with me I do find humorous. Be as blunt as you like. I’m probably your senior in both age and years-in with experience trying to manage this lifestyle.


Funny, you don't talk like it.  You talk pretty much like the scores of newbs that some of use have seen trot through over the years whose years of managing the lifstyle are mostly in their heads.  It sounds like you've got a plan, man, but it just doesn't ring with the pragmatism of a man who's been walking it a while.  Moltke had some good advice about that:  No battle plan survives contact with the enemy.

I might have you all wrong, which is easy to do in text, but you just seem way too much like every other new guy who has it all figured out.  Welcome to the boards, though.  Hang around if you are so inclined.


_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to MansStrength)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/23/2008 7:15:12 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		~FR~

Leonidas' ability at detection is rather good, as he detected me when I was rather new to Gor. I thought I had so many things all figured out, and after a while I understood that to accept that I didn't know, allowed me to see how much I had missed.

Live well,
Orion

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/23/2008 7:28:31 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

Leonidas' ability at detection is rather good, as he detected me when I was rather new to Gor. I thought I had so many things all figured out, and after a while I understood that to accept that I didn't know, allowed me to see how much I had missed.

Live well,
Orion


And in the process you've proven yourself to be one of the "real ones" as Marcus said one time.  One of the things I most respect in a man is the ability to frankly say "I hadn't considered that" or "I just plain had that wrong".  Marcus has it, and I have always respected it in him.  He came up in a group of men who didn't, at least in the old days, but he was always the one who would say "I don't believe that anymore, it has been disproven in practice".  That's the way the community moves forward.

I hope you get out this way one day bud.  It would be good to share a kettle and a glass or two with you.


_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/23/2008 10:31:31 AM   
MarcusofAr


Posts: 532
Joined: 3/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

One of the things I most respect in a man is the ability to frankly say "I hadn't considered that" or "I just plain had that wrong".  Marcus has it, and I have always respected it in him.  He came up in a group of men who didn't, at least in the old days, but he was always the one who would say "I don't believe that anymore, it has been disproven in practice". 


Ignorance is a too-common annoyance, in my opinion. But it is curable.

Willful ignorance, on the other hand--in which someone really knows better but refuses to admit it out of selfish egotism-- I consider to be an unforgivable sin.

I am not a spokesmen for those of my Home Stone-- just one citizen of many.

But don't be so quick to judge that group of men back in the old days. What you had back then was a few bad larmas who took advantage of their association with better men in order to get away with more than they ever deserved.

Loyalty is a powerful force among honorable men. It can compel them to silence when they should openly dissent; and it can stay their hand when they should drive the unworthy from among them.

Fortunately, we've gotten smarter since then, and have laboriously emplaced the means to police ourselves against such misbehavior. In short, we've cleaned up our own house, a fact of which I am rather proud. And we intend to keep it that way.

I wish you well,

_Marcus_


(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/23/2008 10:56:14 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Tal Leonidas,

I indeed would enjoy sharing a few together.

Live well,
Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

Leonidas' ability at detection is rather good, as he detected me when I was rather new to Gor. I thought I had so many things all figured out, and after a while I understood that to accept that I didn't know, allowed me to see how much I had missed.

Live well,
Orion


And in the process you've proven yourself to be one of the "real ones" as Marcus said one time.  One of the things I most respect in a man is the ability to frankly say "I hadn't considered that" or "I just plain had that wrong".  Marcus has it, and I have always respected it in him.  He came up in a group of men who didn't, at least in the old days, but he was always the one who would say "I don't believe that anymore, it has been disproven in practice".  That's the way the community moves forward.

I hope you get out this way one day bud.  It would be good to share a kettle and a glass or two with you.



_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/24/2008 6:45:09 AM   
Quantumm


Posts: 53
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcusofAr

Ignorance is a too-common annoyance, in my opinion. But it is curable.

Willful ignorance, on the other hand--in which someone really knows better but refuses to admit it out of selfish egotism-- I consider to be an unforgivable sin.



I (we?) seem to live in a culture where such willful ignorance is both widespread and encouraged.  Thinking is hard, which is why so few men do it (*grin*).  To boot, all sorts of convenient (simple-minded) rationalizations have appeared over time that help big-ego'd, lazy-minded men cater to their ignorance while boasting about it.

In a society where politics and economics are largely a majority-controlled system, a prevalence of willfully ignorant men inevitably places thoughtful men (numerically speaking) in a minority category; that's 'minority' as in "50% + 1 squash the rest."

Yes, we can and do navigate our own personal space according to our own standards and yet, somehow, doing so amidst a society comprised largely of willfully ignorant men, is largely unsatisfying (to me, anyway).

Thanks for sharing this point.  And now, today's inspiration:

DO BATTLE !!!  :)

_____________________________

I wish you well,
Quantumm

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
~ Arthur Schopenhauer

(in reply to MarcusofAr)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/24/2008 6:49:47 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 16522
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quantumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcusofAr

Ignorance is a too-common annoyance, in my opinion. But it is curable.

Willful ignorance, on the other hand--in which someone really knows better but refuses to admit it out of selfish egotism-- I consider to be an unforgivable sin.



I (we?) seem to live in a culture where such willful ignorance is both widespread and encouraged.  Thinking is hard, which is why so few men do it (*grin*).  To boot, all sorts of convenient (simple-minded) rationalizations have appeared over time that help big-ego'd, lazy-minded men cater to their ignorance while boasting about it.

In a society where politics and economics are largely a majority-controlled system, a prevalence of willfully ignorant men inevitably places thoughtful men (numerically speaking) in a minority category; that's 'minority' as in "50% + 1 squash the rest."

Yes, we can and do navigate our own personal space according to our own standards and yet, somehow, doing so amidst a society comprised largely of willfully ignorant men, is largely unsatisfying (to me, anyway).

Thanks for sharing this point.  And now, today's inspiration:

DO BATTLE !!!  :)


...and then all that gets added to by a six-pack and an Internet connection.

Live well,

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to Quantumm)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/24/2008 7:05:28 AM   
MarcusofAr


Posts: 532
Joined: 3/12/2008
Status: offline 		Fortunately, we have one major advantage.

Our consumer society has been programmed to be relatively immobile, unfeeling, and insensible. We are encouraged to uncomplainingly participate is some drab production or service job, then come home and sit on the couch and consume product. But that is a naturally entropic environment. If society confiines the human animal within too narrow parameters, entropy sets in and starts reducing those within it to a slow ebb toward zero productivity or function.

In short-- we are programmed to desire to do less in order to have more, ad infinitem. Because ultimate success in our present society is based upon the goal of doing nothing to have absolutely everything.

Our advantage?

In such an environment, even a little bit of ambition and intelligent action goes a long, long way.

With such ambition one can rise above the sleeping sheep and act outside the herd collective.

Ta Sardar Gor.

I wish you well,

_Marcus_


(in reply to Quantumm)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/24/2008 10:00:52 AM   
ZebRarius


Posts: 88
Joined: 3/17/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcusofAr
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
He came up in a group of men who didn't, at least in the old days, but he was always the one who would say "I don't believe that anymore, it has been disproven in practice".

I am not a spokesmen for those of my Home Stone-- just one citizen of many.

But don't be so quick to judge that group of men back in the old days. What you had back then was a few bad larmas who took advantage of their association with better men in order to get away with more than they ever deserved.

Loyalty is a powerful force among honorable men. It can compel them to silence when they should openly dissent; and it can stay their hand when they should drive the unworthy from among them.

Fortunately, we've gotten smarter since then, and have laboriously emplaced the means to police ourselves against such misbehavior. In short, we've cleaned up our own house, a fact of which I am rather proud. And we intend to keep it that way.

I think you might find, Leonidas, that much has changed in that group.  That which should not be changed has, of course, not been touched.  Much of the detritus, however, has been cleared away; the dross skimmed off.  Further, while the doors are not closed, they do not swing open easily anymore either.

There is a certain maturity in being able to say, "I no longer believe this is so" or "I no longer behave in such a fashion."  Marcus does indeed have that quality and many others which combine to form what I call "bigness."  On the few occasions where I have bested him in an argument (only a few), he has happily thrown down his sword and admitted that he was dead.  In the internet world, where too many people are accustomed to denial at all costs and the flogging of horses long dead, this is a refreshing quality, and I love him for that.

On the other hand, I would not recommend getting into an argument with him unless you come fully armed and are quite prepared to have your ass handed to you.  If you beat him, he will admit it... but first you have to beat him :)

Z

(edited for typos)

< Message edited by ZebRarius -- 5/24/2008 10:02:42 AM >

(in reply to MarcusofAr)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/24/2008 11:07:07 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 7246
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		Tal Zeb,
 
On the subject of argument, I have come to the view that winning one doesn't mean your position was right. I spent many years as an active participant in a Theological Forum. It is possible to cite sources, reason cogently therefrom to a logically unassailable conclusion, and still be wrong. When I was in grad school, debating the application of theory to cases after rounds, it became clear to me that sometimes an unassailably reasoned conclusion based on what a theorist plainly stated, could fail to grasp what he meant.
 
One of my favorite "teaching stories" is the tale of a monk who begged of his Abbot how best to convey the truth of the Sutras. "Burn them," was the Abbot's answer. The truth is not in the Sutras. They only point us to it. Gor points us toward something too, something that can be described but not encompassed by description, something within us, the truth of our nature. What is the nature of man? From the Siva Sutras to Socrates to Gor, across centuries of argument, the advice remains the same, and not much to argue over.
 
Either you take it, or you don't.
 
IWYW,
 
Kirata the Ancient
 
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 5/24/2008 11:55:13 AM >

(in reply to ZebRarius)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/24/2008 12:35:52 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 7246
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		bleh ...Siva Sutra (singular) ...I'm having a really distracted day.
 
But at least it's warm and sunny for a change. Happy holiday weekend, etc.
 
K.
 

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/24/2008 1:34:56 PM   
ZebRarius


Posts: 88
Joined: 3/17/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
On the subject of argument, I have come to the view that winning one doesn't mean your position was right. I spent many years as an active participant in a Theological Forum. It is possible to cite sources, reason cogently therefrom to a logically unassailable conclusion, and still be wrong. When I was in grad school, debating the application of theory to cases after rounds, it became clear to me that sometimes an unassailably reasoned conclusion based on what a theorist plainly stated, could fail to grasp what he meant.
 
One of my favorite "teaching stories" is the tale of a monk who begged of his Abbot how best to convey the truth of the Sutras. "Burn them," was the Abbot's answer. The truth is not in the Sutras. They only point us to it. Gor points us toward something too, something that can be described but not encompassed by description, something within us, the truth of our nature. What is the nature of man? From the Siva Sutras to Socrates to Gor, across centuries of argument, the advice remains the same, and not much to argue over.
 
Either you take it, or you don't.

Tal, O Ancient One

One of my favorite scenes from "The Razor's Edge" (Bill Murray version, not one of his best efforts but still a great movie) is when he is sent up into the mountains on a retreat.  As he runs out of firewood in the freezing cold, he suddenly throws one of his precious books on the fire and begins laughing.

As a Warrior, I well understand that I can win a battle yet lose the war.  I will still fight to win.

IWYW,
Z

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/24/2008 1:53:54 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 16522
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

One of my favorite "teaching stories" is the tale of a monk who begged of his Abbot how best to convey the truth of the Sutras. "Burn them," was the Abbot's answer. The truth is not in the Sutras. They only point us to it. Gor points us toward something too, something that can be described but not encompassed by description, something within us, the truth of our nature. What is the nature of man? From the Siva Sutras to Socrates to Gor, across centuries of argument, the advice remains the same, and not much to argue over.   Either you take it, or you don't.


Tal Kirata,

Two of my favorites--

*A young monk, while meditating, has a fantastic vision. He sees the Buddha floating on a cloud in front of him, surrounded by dozens of Boddhisattvas. He runs to the Abbot to tell the tale. The Abbot calmly listens to the excited monk tell of his vision, and replies, "Well, go back to your meditation, concentrate on your breathing--and it will go away."

*A reknowned monk, on his deathbed, was asked to leave his disciples with one last teaching. He replied, "I have spent my entire life selling water by the river."

Live well.

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/24/2008 1:57:26 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 16522
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

One of my favorite scenes from "The Razor's Edge" (Bill Murray version, not one of his best efforts but still a great movie) is when he is sent up into the mountains on a retreat.  As he runs out of firewood in the freezing cold, he suddenly throws one of his precious books on the fire and begins laughing. [/quote

It's a great scene, especially since he does this page by page at first, and in practical if vain attempt at warmth.

Best,

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to ZebRarius)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar - 5/25/2008 12:43:55 AM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		~FR~
 
I try never to argue. To me arguing is two people talking very loudly and no one listening. I'd rather debate and change my mind or their mind based on the merits.
 
Live well,
Touchyourmind

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 117
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 4 5 [6]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> RE: ignoring slave's will vs. begging a collar Page: <<   < prev  2 3 4 5 [6]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2012
Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.250