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Green Goreans? - 5/23/2008 4:58:19 PM   
ygraine


Posts: 674
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"Goreans care for their world. They love the sky, the plains, the sea, the rain in the summer, the snow in the winter. They will sometimes stand and watch clouds. The movement of grass in the wind is very beautiful to them. More than one Gorean poet has sung of the leaf of a Tur tree. I have known warriors who cared for the beauty of small flowers."
Page 119 - Hunters of Gor

from Gorean Whispers website: http://www.goreanwhispers.com/quotes/behaviour.html


hello Folks,
I was thinking about this quote and some others regarding natural order, the nature of things if you will, and I was wondering if these ideas, for you, translate into living in a "Greener" way?  If you do try to "live green", is it linked to your thoughts about living as a Gorean?  How do you blend them together? 

I know, a chicken or the egg question right?
Thank you for your thoughts and replies.

Y

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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/23/2008 5:08:05 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I don't identify as Gorean, but I think this is a lovely sentiment. I'll be very interested in seeing the ideas put forth.

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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/23/2008 6:02:29 PM   
Karynn


Posts: 773
Joined: 6/8/2007
Status: offline 		Hello Y -

I find that though there are people and places and things I have come to love, at the depth of my soul and spirit, I have learned to love the very essence of the world itself on another level.

I've shared the Navy bootcamp story, and finding the only beautiful thing in those harsh weeks to be the sunrise and sunset, and an understanding that came about for how beautiful the world around me can be even in the midst of horrible or difficult times.

It was a lesson that has helped for years, and one that has made me very conscious of a need to care for that same beautiful peace and place we all share and call home.

For me, the essence of being aware of my world and the beauty of mountains and sunsets and waterfalls and beaches in winter... came along with my awareness of the very same essences of understanding natural law, the patterns that make Gorean philosophy work, and the validation goes two ways, much like your chicken and egg analogy.

K

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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/23/2008 6:14:45 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1371
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		That was from the viewpoint of 'Country Ass substinance and sustenance Living Goreans'

I remember a male slave walking thru the city and runaway slaves digging thru the filth in the canal for edibles.


I think one sees what is close, and as a country volk I am aghast at what goes into the garbage dumpster in the apartment building where I live in Brainerd during the week, there is no recycling in that lake country near as I am able to tell.

So as I see it from my perspective, at my time and in my place, I am green --- it is an outcropping of living on the land, and owning things, and the difficulty in having possessions, as Orion and I related in a thread hijack (that really wasn't a hijack whatsoever) regarding flat tires. 

When you have in your heart a very personal stake in these things, then you are green, and when you don't, then you are like the round the corner neighbor who throws her fucking garbage in bags in the ditch (but not around HER fucking house.........)

Ron   

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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/23/2008 6:49:23 PM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Tal Ygraine,
 
Currently the only real green thing we do is recycle. Eventually I intend to put in solar panels to heat the hot water tanks and possibly the pool. One of the ways I appreciate how beautiful our world is was watch the planet earth DVDs produced by the BBC.
 
I think this planet is amazing in it's ability to regenerate and heal. How much impact does the human species have on earths eco system? In my opinion not very much. A single volcanic eruption puts more "pollutants" into the eco system than all the pollutants that are caused by humans including factories and cars in a 10 year span. Earth weather patterns are cyclical. Just a few years ago these same scientists were warning about global cooling. All the scientists agree that these patterns have been happening for thousands of years if not millions. Way before humans even in their most primitive beginnings appeared on the planet. These ice ages covered almost all of North America as well as South America and in Europe almost as far as Spain. When the world started to warm it pushed the ice all the way back to near current polar coverage. There wasn't a single car or factory around. Now that doesn't mean we shouldn't good citizens and take care of the place we live. Recycling and low emission vehicles doesn't curtail our standard of living. Factories could be more careful with their waste even and if it cost a bit more to produce the products people would pay a little more for the good being done. What we don't need are groups with their own agenda telling tall tales for a greater good. Remember not so long ago that the rain forrest was disappearing at the rate of an acre per minute. Of course when one did the math the rain forest would have disappeared in the 60's or something like that. So they came back and said that they had to lie to get our attention, for the greater good. Some of these Eco groups have said their goal is to get rid of all the air conditioners and automobiles.
 
So I'll recycle and maybe one day have a hybrid car and solar panels but thats where I'm digging my heels. As to how it reflects on being Gorean I'll have to give it more thought. My initial reaction is not much or at all. It might be more if I lived in the country or a farm as some who post here are.
 
I wish you well,
Touchyourmind

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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/23/2008 10:18:41 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Y,

I believe many different definitions of "Green" may exist. I myself love nature, have several flowers on my deck that I prune, water, and take care of. On the property is a vegatble garden and flower garden that my daughter primarily takes care of, but I assist. My son and I do the manual yard work, as well we still have some sections of the property we need to clear some of the ground clutter from, and a few trees that need to be thinned out.

I hike in the North Georgia Mtns when I can, and was not really able to do much until recently. I love to hike down the game trails, and the areas many others do not go down. I pick flowers from the wild, when I do so I silent ask nature for the flower and thank it afterwards. I have been known to sit and watch squirrels play for hours. I feel more complete and whole when I am closer to nature.

This connection reminds me of many things, and one of which is that we are the caretakers of the areas we live in. I cannot save the world, but I can do much for my little slice of it.

Could you be more precise in what you mean as "Green" and I may be able to offer a more accurate view.

Live well,
Orion

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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/23/2008 10:55:54 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Tym,

I absolutely disagre with you on this one.

I think human consumption of our planets natural resources and all the polutants we discard into the air and rivers lakes and oceans will be our own undoing in the end, if we do not all wake up and reverse our behaviors.


Take care,
Babs


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Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/23/2008 11:54:22 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		The three biggest challenges we face are overpopulation and shrinking fresh water supplies-along with upcoming energy shortages.
 
 These links show two types of grass roots solutions I am interested in pursuing.
 
http://www.urbanag.org.au/Aquaponics_Network.html

http://otherpower.com/


 
 

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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/24/2008 1:12:55 AM   
Anarrus


Posts: 475
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		It's been said many times and in many places that being Gorean has a lot to do with accepting responsibilty for our actions. Our environment is in a fucking mess right now and has been for quite a few years. Nearly 7 billion humans living on this planet, using its resources irresponsibly and polluting the environment do make an impact and quite a large one. The earth is a complex of biological and geological systems..all interconnected and interdependent. Mess one up and it affects others.

I'm going to use an analogy that I hope many Goreans may be able to relate to....Think of the earth as a fine beautiful slavegirl. You can either use her well and fully, tend her needs in feeding her properly, make sure she is kept in good health, both body and mind, and keep her presentable and pleasing both for your pleasure and enjoyment and the pleasure of others, which reflects well on you, ..or you can use her without any concern for her well being or concern for the consquences of mistreatment and let her waste to a slave that's neither useful nor pleasing.

We're here only a short time on this earth. It's not ours to own, to use up, deplete and destroy for those who will come after us. To do so is both irresponsible and dishonorable, both as a human being and as a Gorean.

Anyway to answer your question...Yes Ygraine, I began recycling a long time ago when it was neither cool nor mandated to do. My home's well insulated and has the best energy efficient appliances and heating system in it. I keep my heat set low in the winter not only because it's an environmentally good thing to do, but also because it's generally healthier to do so. I use energy efficient light bulbs. I compost all organic materials...makes great garden and potting soil. All small things I know, but if everyone practiced a little "greenery" in their lives it'd add up and make a difference.

I wish you well

Anarrus

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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/24/2008 3:14:30 AM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1711
Status: offline 		Hello Y,

We recycle, and since it's nice outside finally - I am going to quit using the dryer and start hanging clothes outside on the line.   I am starting to look around and see what else we can do here.   I recall back in the 70's, we had a trash pick up day every year when I was in high school.   The catch phrase in those days wasn't "going green" but, "save the environment", which I found this really cool red and white button that had that phrase and logo.   It isn't retro - it's the REAL thing!  ~laughs~

I don't like plastic plates or plastic silverware...or plastic flowers (couldn't resist), I would rather use regular plates and real silverware and wash them.   I think whenever we can use products from natural fibers it's better for ecology.   I believe we have become a society of throw away.   Get plastic plates - throw them away it's easier.   Get new plastic lawn chairs, don't replace the webbing on the old ones.  I know some of us remember how our parents would actually repair lawn chairs - the frame was good, the webbing had worn out.  Today - pffft...get new!  Don't go to the work to reweb a chair, afterall they are only 8.00. 

This is one of the reasons I"m a fan of garage sales.   Recycle, repurpose, reuse.   Our town used to have trash day.  Once a year we could put anything at the curb and the garbage haulers would take it.   Scavenger hunts, I'm embarrassed to admit, we used to haunt ppl's curbs to find goodies.   I'm even MORE embarrassed to admit, no one ever stopped in front of our house - when I got rid of stuff, well it was truly ready for the dump.   They used to slow down, check out our junk and QUICKLY speed up to get past our house.   We aren't having one this year, darnit.  Hey we had to replace our hot water heater - and the old was sitting at the side of the house, some guy stopped asked if he could have it, for the metal.  You bet he could! 

I love what Tavares and Terrah are doing with the horse and buggy...that's awesome.  I just read on line where someone is going to work their farm, actually plow with their horses. 

We are seriously thinking of investing in a hybrid vehicle.   Right now our only concern is the battery replacement cost.  I just believe there are many ways we each one of us can be more green, AND save money.

Great topic Y.

Talk to ya soon,

Liz

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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/24/2008 4:04:04 AM   
MarcusofAr


Posts: 532
Joined: 3/12/2008
Status: offline 		Goreans do not consider themselves "above" nature, or the "overlords" of nature. They accept that they, too, are a part of it.

A Gorean woodsman might speak to a tree before he chops it down, explaining to it the purposes to which its wood will be put, or the necessity for its removal. Because he loves it, as a compatriot in the natural world.

But he will still chop it down, if needed.

It is not the Gorean way to do anything that impacts nature lightly, or without thought. That doesn't mean a Gorean won't make use of natural resources; because while he understands that he, too, is part of nature, he does not place an unseeing nature above his own survival, or value flora and fauna above himself. He values all things according to their actuality, their beauty, their function, and their place.

It would never occur to a Gorean, for instance, to spike a tree in order to kill a logger.

Goreans also respect nature. They know how deadly it can be, nor have they forgotten its might. When one turns on one's television and sees footage of the survivors of a natural disaster, especially in the modernized West, many faces display utter shock and surprise. Because they never for an instant considered the fact that such a thing could occur, or that they weren't the absolute masters of the world upon which they live.

Sightseers step out of their cars in the African veldt and get mauled to death trying to pet lions, also.

Goreans recycle if they have the means; but before they do, they take care to study and learn what can be efficiently recycled, versus what cannot be. Because recycling certain things is less energy efficient than producing new materials from scratch, and actually works against the concept of conservation. Many environmentalists fail to mention that. Thats why recycling centers aren't a booming industry, and those that are have been in place since the late 1960's, busily recycling only the items that are efficiently recyclable. Many recycling centers also accept the other things, but then haul all the inefficient stuff off to local landfills anyway-- to conserve energy. Not a lot of people know that. But it's true.

Goreans are not guilty about the fact that they are at the top of the food chain... but they still understand, completely, that they are part of it.

Goreans love their world as a friend, as an all-providing mother, as a comrade in great works.

NOT only as a resource to be expoited and exhausted.

Goreans love to live, and they tend to love living things. And they love to match their own fierceness against the fiercest of creatures.

A Gorean will drink the heart blood of a deer, else he does not consider himself worthy to taste its venison.

Gorean environmentalism is based upon the same concept as giri, a Japanese word which does not translate very well into English.

The best interpretation of it might be "recognition of what is owed."

In giri one recognizes what is owed to another person or force than oneself. Respect, honor, gratitude, or just an appreciation of the other's qualities-- these facts generate giri, and the Gorean renders unto that other what is properly owed to it.

A Gorean respects nature, he recognizes nature, he honors nature, he struggles against nature, he conquers nature-- but most of all, he loves nature.

As long as his actions properly reflect that fact, then he is interacting correctly with nature as a proper Gorean.

I also offer this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arts_and_Crafts_Movement

Despite a certain "triviality" which has since been attached to the phrase "arts and crafts" (images of macaroni and craft paste spring to mind), that phrase originally arose as part of a creative artistic movement which is well worth examining.

That movement sought to turn away from mass production and assembly lines in order to rediscover the lost craftsmanship of the human artisan--- beauty in design and function, simplicity and human skill, created from regional materials according to the best-suited modes and designs based upon the specific needs and environment of the end user.

It is a rejection of the crass commercialism that has destroyed the family mercantile and replaced it with the ubiquitous Wal-Mart, and a castigation of the concept that replaced the corner delicatessan with MacDonalds.

Check it out at the link above. That movement was quite Gorean in scope and concept. A hundred years ago.

I wish you well,

_Marcus_


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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/24/2008 4:54:58 AM   
ygraine


Posts: 674
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline 		good morning Marcus,
You said:
"A Gorean will drink the heart blood of a deer, else he does not consider himself worthy to taste its venison. "
How would someone translate that ? Not too many folks kill their own meat...a pity, more would be vegetarian!
(not that I advocate that but I do think we eat far too much meat in the US).  How would someone who lived in...say,, Pittsburg honor that animal he eats?
Y


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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/24/2008 6:32:06 AM   
MarcusofAr


Posts: 532
Joined: 3/12/2008
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quote:

How would someone translate that ?


In any way one can, of course.

One can mentally, symbolically, understand the beauty and majesty of the thing if unable to literally perform such actions.

One translates it by not wasting it, or thinking of it simply as something that comes from the grocery store in a clean plastic package. That was a living animal from which you are taking sustenance. Acknowledge that fact, and honor it.

Surely you don't expect to be given a "what to do" handbook of numbered items telling you how to translate these concepts? There is no "Gor For Dummies" book.

One must be willing to emotionally invest oneself in these concepts to understand them and practice them in ones own life. Else one is simply paying lip-service to them.

I once drank the heart blood of a deer I had hunted, in my youth.

That was thirty years ago. I haven't physically done so since. But I have emotionally identified with, and repeated the sentiment behind, that action a thousand times since in countless other ways.

I wish you well,

_Marcus_


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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/24/2008 7:01:07 AM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1072
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From: Washington State
Status: offline 		Morning Ygraine,

As one who comes from the hippie generation, living green was a way of life before it was cool.   We were called tree huggers, granola pushers and worse.   The fate of our planet was foremost on our mind, when it wasn't popular to have that mindset.  

I can't comment on how it ties in with being gorean,  I suppose though it's no  different then those who have never heard of JN.    The love of your surroundings, respect for nature and desire to leave things better then you found them, is not new, nor is it exclusive.

If anyone wishes websites, let me know, of places that still recycle organic material into clothing and useful items.  

Lisa




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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/24/2008 8:19:21 AM   
Anarrus


Posts: 475
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		Tal Marcus

Thank you for a most excellent post and putting things in a very uniquely Gorean perspective.

I agree, any action taken to the extreme can't be good, i.e. the spiking of trees. Balance in all things, I think, is a neccessity in order to grow and flourish.

Having dabbled in the antique trade for a number of years I'm very familiar with the Arts and Crafts movement. It was a thought process and way of living that gave way to producing simple sturdy and well crafted items that survive and are sought to this day such as mission style furniture and many variations of stained glass lamps. I'm proud to say that Gustav Stickley practiced his craft in the general area in which I live.

I wish you well
Anarrus

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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/24/2008 8:21:45 AM   
Terrah


Posts: 372
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		Tal Y..

Great subject. We have greengage!! a popular new phrase for those of us who have been doing something conservative with our waste for years. I believe hippy was replaced by the word conservatism. Whatever the phrase or meaning behind it, there is no mandatory laws yet to recycle.

Yes recycle, in Abilene for instance there was a report done on recycling. Yep take your Christmas trees there to be shredded, then come and get some free compost. If it was not 60 miles from here I would have. Then they said they take those electronic things from you, like old computers, cell phones, anything with a battery. The interest there was to make sure they got these very toxic things out of the way of our ground water by not burying them in a landfill,  and gave them to yet another company who reused them or re- did something to them to make them new again. Wow I said. They pulled the wires out and stripped the plastic off, and with other plastic gave it to another company who would melt it all down again and reuse it. The copper of course is reusable. The recycling people made out like a fat rat, selling this and that to other companies for nearly nothing to recycle it all. How very cool. But get this, the money past their own wages is all donated to the ASPCA in Abilene for the protection and homes for animals that are abused or stray. Now aint that sumpin???

All of a sudden I was proud to be a Texican again. So we have started with the place Tavares works saving cans, saving some of the wires and things they will put on a truck and haul it to Abilene's recycling place. We have gone to a few other businesses and asked them to do the same, and with donations for diesel, we can load it up on the truck and drive it over there, they said they would be glad to have it all after we called to find out more about it. I am proud to have brought this up to Tavares' boss and he is on several boards around the county too, so he is passing the word and as people gather things, we'll soon have our first truck load of stuff. Isn't that community or what?

Now, what I am about to say may offend some people, but guess what? Doesn't matter to me in the least. But I do think it's a good subject to speak of since it has everything to do with what Y is talking about. Take the quote there, about men who love nature, men who love to see flowers, not just in girls hair either, but can appreciate the fact they exist. I have seen many men on the board speak of such things, I can appreciate the fact they do speak of them and I believe stand behind what they say they do. I think that is a very vital part of being a Gorean man, or woman for that matter.

Have you ever wondered why someone stops to smell a rose? Is it mere appreciation of the rose, or the smell of such a flower? Or are they stopping for however brief a moment to appreciate it is a flower to recognize that nature is there and still a wonder? So many times I see people walking along, they don't look around, they walk like robots in their own little world until something shakes them up. To me that is being shepeople. I walk like a robot through the streets not taking note of anything but the sidewalk and not even paying attention to anything but my sore feet from walking so far in the designer shoes that simply don't fit right but look great so I may impress some other shepeople who recognize them. Or I am thinking about that nasty woman who gets all the men for herself because she's beautiful and men flock to her. Not thinking that there's a blade of grass trying to grow through the cement to live as she passes it by unconcerned about anything that is not directly affecting her. This is just a summation of course, but all too often people are like that, they are concerned with only themselves nothing more, to me that is the opposite of green all together.

That is opposite to what a Gorean is. I have to wonder how many of you out there who read this stuff is really thinking about anything execpt themselves. I believe the way to change the world, is to change that part of us that is so selfish, so jealous, so uncaring, so spiteful and so very toxic to not only themselves, but others who view them as successful, setting an example of the people we are not supposed to become, but engaging in the practice anyhow despite they are the very ones who are elected, who hold high positions in companies, who make decisions about other people's lives, who have power and are power hungry. I say to you all now, change your ways.

I believe if you see someone doing something that is going to save the world, join in, why not? I do not have the time doesn't work any more. Make the time, be concerned, if nothing else talk about it but get involved in some way, stop thinking about being corporate, get out there and fight for what's right.

As Liz said, we are building a buggy so I can go to town, some 7 miles away to get feed for my stock so I don't have to drive a vehicle to the town to get it. On the back, it will say Protesting high gas prices! with a nice little triangle in red so I don'[t get hit or disobey any laws. It's a strong statement. I even talked to the manager in Walmart and he said if I did that, he'd put up a hitching post for me. Isn't that great?? I have taken this one step further as well. I have some friends in Ranger, they said they would keep a couple of my horses in town so I could ride my buggy into Ranger and then hook up to another horse and go to Eastland to the Walmart and go shopping. Heh. cool, now we are talking here!! Relaying horses now.. just like the pony express did. LOL I am getting a kick outta this whole thing. Even if I did this only once every week I would be getting a message out to everyone who saw it stating I am sick and tired of the way the government is treating all of us, allowing gas to rise this high and hurting everyone in some way or another, be is gas prices, food prices, car costs, oil changes, electricity costs, whatever it may be. Speak up Goreans, do something that makes a difference.

I wish you well,

Terrah


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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/24/2008 8:32:42 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Goreans aren't "Green" in the superficial cause of the month sense.  As Marcus said well, we consider ourselves to be a part of nature, not its overlords.

It's a rather deep distinction.  There is a real sense in which the society around us sees the world as our cradle, but not really our home.  That society is racing headlong toward trying to become something other than human.  It's Jesus' fault, pretty much. 

If we proceed along that headlong and accelerating path, we will soon be able to manipulate the stuff that we are made of as easily as we manipulate steel and silicon now.  We will become something else.  The human drives that we Goreans cherish will ultimately be engineered away, being seen as impediments to progress.  We will then have attained the "Kingdom of Heaven" that Jesus spoke of.  The impedus to "sin" will be gone.  When the cradle (Earth) has been consumed the beings that we will be, immortal and in the eyes of Jesus "perfected" will move on.

A Gorean doesn't particularly like that vision of the future.  He sees the world as his home, not his cradle, and not a basket of resources to be consumed on the way to becoming something else.  He would prefer to remain subject to the forces that forged him into what he is, and leave the gates to the "Kingdom of Heaven" shut.  I do look at the clouds, and the grass, and go to sea, and feel at home with my world and my own nature as a man.  It is a view that is less and less in favor.

Sorry, this is probably uncomfortably deep for a Saturday morning.  But Goreans being "Green" isn't so superficial a distinction as being more likely to recycle.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 5/24/2008 8:39:56 AM >

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RE: Green Goreans? - 5/25/2008 1:38:26 AM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Tal Babs,
 
I'm not quite sure what your disagreeing with. I believe I said I live as green as I can with in the boundaries of what is practical. I'm not in favor of any corporate entity polluting the rivers or the air or third world country for that matter.
 
But I am very pragmatic. History and science tells us the truth without an agenda. I am more concerned with using up non replaceable resources. One day maybe this planet will follow Gene Roddenberry's lead in joining together for the betterment of all. There are starving people in the world and yet the U.S. Government pays farmers not to farm. In California dairies pour milk down the drain to keep milk prices high. Just doesn't seem very smart for the long term.
 
In my opinion the only resource that there's concern about it running out is oil. When will that happen? Pretty much everyone agrees that it will be several decades if not more before that happens based on the existing areas where oil is being drilled. It doesn't take into account any new reserves being found such as in Alaska. Should private citizens, corporations and countries minimize their polluting and wasteful ways, absolutely. Why should we be as green as is reasonable? Simple, it's the right thing to do and to be. But let us not kid ourselves as to how much control we exercise over global warming or the next ice age which ever cycle is now happening.
 
I wish you well,
Touchyourmind

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Green Goreans? - 5/25/2008 5:49:43 AM   
Karynn


Posts: 773
Joined: 6/8/2007
Status: offline 		Hello ya'll,

In one of the last classes I attended prior to being too ill to continue, I was in what I thought to be a philosophy class and it ended up being a very then current exposure to modern application of philosophy to moder age problems that ranged from use and misuse of natural resources to use and misuse of power. I found the overall context of the class enlightening and probably far more so then I would have had I had to spend the semester pouring over The Republic again or other such ancient texts.

During one of the natural resource segments, we talked about replaceable resources vs. unreplaceable resources, and how much they're being consumed in our current age compared to other centuries. It is like the snowball rolling down the hill gains speed and size, the farther it goes and steeper the grade. Many resources are actually replenishable, but the fact that we're in the lower section of the hill and the snowball races more rapidly and consumes more and more snow, means that the environment has no way of keeping up with the replenishing process.

Thousands of years from now, animals and plants will have recycled themselves into new tar pits, and oil reserves. With mini Ice Ages and sliding tectonic plates, the environment resets itself with water reservoirs refilling and the process ends up exposing other resources that are currently being rapidly consumed by humanity. Those things may seem like they're eons away, 10,000 years until it is likely that the Earth will be plunged into a mega Ice Age. How does that influence us immediately? It really doesn't. It just proves that humans cannot really destroy the Earth. They just make the immediate survival of our species more and more difficult. The cycles that keep the Earth itself healthy influence the planet in much much broader strokes then we ever could.

I was reminded of the various governmental influences on our global needs by Tym's recounting of both farm subsidies and dairy farmers actions that include tossing of milk. Do any of us have any real concept of the word starvation? It is one of the most painful ways to die, and also an even more painful way to live. How many people across the world could step one step away from the utter hopelessness of starvation with just one glass of that tossed away milk? It's staggering to really wrap the mind around it. And it makes me angry and sad.

One thing I did not know prior to that class I took was the reality of the shortage of healthy water. In the late 80s or early 90s, there was a science fiction movie called Waterworld that showed us a world that was completely covered in salt-water, oceans so vast existed still on Earth, but the water in an ocean is undrinkable without a great deal of processing, so the scarcity of water made living a very taxing process. It created an environment for pirating, and an environment for mythical stories created to inspire hope - that if a sailor searched long enough, the mythical existence of one small tract of land still existed, with green grassy knolls and inland a small distance, on that tract of land, one could find healthy, drinkable, fresh water in abundance. That was the goal of the movie, and Kevin Costner plus others spent the movie's next two hours or so hunting for maps to the treasure, and the treasure was the water itself.

I live in the southeast, USA. I live near water, but the water that runs closest to Charlotte is generally poluted. It is replenished by a struggling ecosystem that tends to evaporate more than replaces it each year, and the shortage is so crucial now that the Governor of NC comes on television with Be Green Conserve Water adds regularly, asking that everyone get involved and showing the children of NC taking part in the conservation process by reminding parents to shut off water while shaving, avoid washing cars, and removing sprinkler systems that would have kept lawns green. In the middle of the US, below the major flat states like Kansas, exists a water basin that provides the long term water for a great portion of the American public. It's got room for billions of gallons of water, and can be drilled for just like oil is removed from the ground. That water basin has existed for hundreds of thousands of yeas, and up till the 20th century, the amount of water removed from the basin was replaced and then some, so the balance was always in the black. If the US consumed 50 billion gallons of water in 1890, the water basin replenished itself with rain and run off and ice melts, etc to the tune of 100 billion gallons of water. Only in the 1900s was it found that the main water basin for the US no longer has the replenishing ability to keep up with that which is drilled. For every 50 billion gallons of water removed, only 45 million gallons are replaced. The margin increases yearly, and eventually because it is a resource that is not replenishing as quickly as it is being used, it will become an empty reservoir.

Regardless of life or lifestyle, people who are politically savvy or politically disinterested, and regardless of what belief system or lack of faith at all, the essence of replenishable and non-replenishable life resources must be a topic of discussion at the forefront. It seems ridiculous to all of us that milk is tossed instead of sent to those who need it. The population of the world is increasing exponentially and they need food and drink. We do worry about petrol being exhausted, and finding other methods of fueling our world. But what about the most basic resource - WATER? If we do not realize collectively that it is on the same endangered list as oil, but it is life sustaining while oil is not, it seems that the focus should shift. If you or I were starving or dehydrating, oil would do us little good. Water, though, is a must. Without fresh water, there is no fresh food, and the future is bleak.

My best, and food for thought on this quiet Sunday morning,
K

_____________________________

In all things, to thine own self be true.

(in reply to Totalmaster4you)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Green Goreans? - 5/25/2008 8:04:23 AM   
Cherylmazana


Posts: 1151
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		My husband works for one of the UK’s water boards, recently he had to do a project that included aquifers, and basically America is in real trouble.

The aquifers are being used at between 8-10 times the replenishment rate, some areas soon will find the mineral content in the water will be so high it will be undrinkable, especially areas like Texas which has less than 200ft depth.

Other areas such as Florida have used so much water from their aquifers that the pressure isn’t there to keep the sea water out which is contaminating the supply and making the water undrinkable. If something isn’t done soon they will have to start tankering the water in which will deplete the aquifers of other areas even more.

America needs to start preparing now for this, not in 20 years when it reaches crisis point, desalination plants etc need to be started now before people start dying because there is no water for crops and drinking water is rationed. I am sure that no one wants to reach a point where tap water is limited to a few hours a day, but I can see it happening.

Governments can’t keep ignoring what’s happening expecting someone else to sort it out later when their term in office is over, but that’s what they always do.

Cheryl

(in reply to Karynn)
Profile   Post #: 20
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