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What's love got to do with it....


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What's love got to do with it.... - 10/26/2005 10:26:29 AM   
lisaSea


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/27/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters, Mistresses and slaves...

Love. Does it have a place in the gorean lifestyle? As a slave and prone to all kinds of emotions, ( that could just be due to being female as well!), love does indeed have a place in my world. I love my owner, in fact, the depth of feelings is unlike any I have had for past boyfriends, not to sound too much like a cliche, but it goes to the core and the mere thought of him not being in my world is something that frightens me to no end.

Now, that said... I do believe there is a difference between being "in love" and loving something, with "in love" describing how I feel towards him.

Can a master be "in love" with their slave? Or, is it something that most consider a downfall? I was wondering how the men here felt, if they were open and admitting to their slave that they did love them, or was it not discussed? Do the men feel love for a slave is considered a weakness?

How about the slaves, do you feel love for your owner? Do you show it and say it openly, knowing perhaps that you will not have that emotion returned? While our actions may "show" our feelings, by constantly seeing to their needs and wants...do you ever actually say the words..."Master, I love you"?... and what do you expect to hear in return? If anything at all.

Just a few questions that hopefully others will find interesting to respond to

lisa{Sea's}







_____________________________

I prefer to think of it as aged to perfection, rather then just plain getting older.

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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/26/2005 10:36:14 AM   
shaohua


Posts: 21
Joined: 12/9/2004
Status: offline 		my Master and i both tell each other we love each other.

i don't think it makes him weaker, nor does he, ..it is an emotion..men feel things too. to deny feelings is to deny who we are.

He was the one who told me first, and it kinda went from there. . .

Love can certainly compilicate things at times, however it never gets in the way of the fact that he owns me and i am his property. Mostly, it makes it better.

(in reply to lisaSea)
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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/26/2005 10:41:07 AM   
leli


Posts: 55
Joined: 6/23/2004
Status: offline 		i think sometimes W/we then to think too much.......somethings can go without saying...and somethings can be said too much....sometimes W/we can over think things and other times not think somethings thru.....to me love and sex and apart....sex is a primal instinct . An act of not love, but more of an animalstic nature.....love is an emotion often confused with that of sex. Mostly confused by females. Males however i doubt ever think of love and sex in the same sentance, unless of course they love sex......Anyways, my point is sometimes i think W/we put way too much thought in to emotions and blur out the big pitcure.

(in reply to lisaSea)
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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/26/2005 11:10:32 AM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		That depends entirely on why the master is keeping slave,and his own emotive/logical processes.

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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/26/2005 3:10:04 PM   
gentlesurrender


Posts: 99
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		hi lisaSea

you start chatting with someone, or you meet them, you carry on the conversation, why?? because somewhere along the line you connect on a deeper level than pure discussion. (How many do we as dominants or submissives talk to, before they find a partner they gel with?)

you start to serve them, you strive to please them, i find this kind of relationship becomes very intense, especially when you are doing things you may never had done before in giving yourself to them, so is it any wonder that the submissive falls in love. It may not be reciprocated, but i think its harder for the submissive to remain neutral within their feelings.

sorry that kinda of went into a ramble, but i hope you get the gist

i hope someday when i find a Master that i connect with it will be a relationship where love does play a part, but who knows what fate, destiny has in store for any of us.

_____________________________

We're never so vulnerable than when we trust someone - but paradoxically, if we cannot trust, neither can we find love or joy" Walter Anderson

(in reply to lisaSea)
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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/26/2005 4:29:09 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Well I guess I will chime in on this one.... I am madly, deeply, and completely in love with my girl. I do not see this as a weakness, on the contrary it makes me more aware of the discipline and training. Just as a father my love for my children does not affect how I discipline them.

I am not sure that I am an exception, but I know that I have never been happier, or better served than with her. I can also say that there is a huge difference in being served by one who loves you or by one that fears you. The extra twinkle in the eye, it makes it all worth while.

If by some tragedy this was to end tomorrow, I am not sure on how I would go about finding another slave to satisfy that part of it.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to gentlesurrender)
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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/26/2005 4:55:38 PM   
yun


Posts: 138
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline 		greetings Masters, Mistresses and slavelettes..

i think love is an emotion that, at least for me, gets in the way too often. i actually prefer most times to keep it out of the equation of my relationships with an owner. if i'm "in love" with my Owners then i tend to do things for the wrong reasons. it definitely affects my service. now i do have a lot of affection and desires to my Owners, and perhaps there is some love there but it doesn't ever get verbalized.

i believe partly you have to look at what the situation is of the people who answer also. are they solely in a M/s relationship? are they married? are they full time (live together) or are they only part time? i think the different variables may also play a large part in what the depths of the feelings might be and how readily they are said to each other.

thank you to the Free for allowing me to post..



_____________________________

*~lauryl~*
owned property of BLS

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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/26/2005 8:29:19 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Can a master be "in love" with their slave? Or, is it something that most consider a downfall? I was wondering how the men here felt, if they were open and admitting to their slave that they did love them, or was it not discussed? Do the men feel love for a slave is considered a weakness?


Certainly a man can fall in love with his slave. Is it a weakness, or a downfall? No. It does pose a danger, however. A man is defined by his actions, not his emotions. A man diminishes himself by denying his emotions. It is not supressing or denying his emotions, but rather, what he does in response to those emotions that determines the kind of man he is.

If he were a man raised on Gor, his first thought at realizing that he loved his slave might be to get rid of her. His upbringing would suggest to him that loving a slave is foolish. She is, afterall, merely a slave. If he were a smart man, though, he would soon realize that to deprive himself of a girl that pleased him because of how he did or didn't feel about her would be even more foolish. His next thought, of course, would be to tighten her bonds. To expect of her a degree of perfection in her service that it would never occur to him to require of a girl he felt less for. His natural desire to dominate, and possess, would be heightened. To show her his power over her, and make her utterly subject to his will. It has been said that the opposite of love is not hate, it is ambivilence. A Gorean man who loved his slave would show absolutely no ambivilence about any aspect of her, or her service to him.

None of us was raised on Gor. None of us saw how our fathers kept their slaves or learned from him what a slave is to a man. My son does, but I certainly didn't. How naturally we respond to our emotions about a slave girl depends a lot on how deeply engrained a Gorean point of view is in us. What we were raised around was the fairytale notion of courtly love. Therein lies the danger in loving a slave. If we still feel, because of our upbringing, as though we are supposed to behave like "prince charming" around a woman that we love, our response to that emotion will be to lessen her bondage. She will cease to be a slave, and we will cease to be her owner. We will try to make a mate of her, which, because of her upbringing, she may think she desires.

The issue that you've raised, slave girl, is one that inhabits that dangerous middle ground between being a Gorean man, and being a man of modern earth. It is hard to abandon the point of view that we were raised with in favor of a different one. It takes a lot of introspection. Some men invest the effort, and others don't. Those who don't are often caught off-guard by falling in love with a slave and make mistakes that, in retrospect they wish they hadn't. It is a learning process. That is cold comfort for those who get hurt along the way, but it is what it is.





< Message edited by Leonidas -- 10/26/2005 11:25:49 PM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/27/2005 8:20:18 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lisaSea
How about the slaves, do you feel love for your owner?

yes

quote:


Do you show it and say it openly, knowing perhaps that you will not have that emotion returned?

yes

quote:


While our actions may "show" our feelings, by constantly seeing to their needs and wants...do you ever actually say the words..."Master, I love you"?... and what do you expect to hear in return? If anything at all.

"I know you do"

(in reply to lisaSea)
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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/27/2005 9:09:15 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		What Leonidas said is probably the most accurate from my view point. Certainly I’m not unaccustomed to loving a number of females all differently whilst remaining “in love” with my Wife/FC. I can be the most hard and cold hearted SoB you have ever known, in my own home, I’d find it virtually impossible to don that or any mask. If I like or love some one my nature will dictate that I make them aware. ‘Tis a hard road at times but all things worthy of being achieved are found at the end of a hard road.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to kisshou)
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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/28/2005 9:09:29 AM   
Webmaster60


Posts: 396
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline 		good day slave,

I agree with Leonidas nearly completely. Can a Master love a slave? of course. Should he? In my opinion, no. At least in the context of fairy tale love.. the whole "nilla love" as I call it. Does it make the Master weak? no, though it certainly has the huge potential for it.

Rare is the Master that CAN love his slave AND maintain her bondage appropriately. If you're that tuff-a-nut.. Go for it.. But largely.. it ends with his dominance being doiminished because of how he feels about her.

The two, to me, seem almost mutually exclusive. to LOVE someone (the the nilla context) is to put them in the center of your universe.. to make them the focalpoint of your emotional energy. These statements do NOT facilitate the proper bondage of a slave. Both can't be true.. To love her in that way, is to serve her.. to make yourself subject to errors of the heart.

Someone mentioned it being akin to loving a child.. I love my son. He is the center of my world. And it pains me DEEPLY (to the point of having to be away from others afterwards) to take the strap to his ass when needed. It can't be that way with a slave too. I won't be held hostage "that" way with a slave.

Bottom line? IF you can love nilla love.. and NOT be held hostage to it.. go for it. For me, I will love a slave as a slave.. I'm not sure I can explain the difference (to me), but it is what would allow me to remove her collar, show her the door, and never give it a second thought. Would I have cared DEEPLY for her? yes.. But no to the point where my judgement is impaired.

Master Michael

_____________________________

Master Michael
~~~~~~~~~~
"To sin in silence when he should
speak makes cowards of men"

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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/28/2005 9:14:35 AM   
plantlady64


Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline 		Good Morning All,
My Master does indeed love me and I absolutely love him.
Our love is the greatest aspect of our relationship.
Does this make us weak? I'd say no way, it makes us much stronger & more secure in our path together.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to lisaSea)
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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/28/2005 10:31:22 PM   
seaMist


Posts: 6
Joined: 8/5/2005
Status: offline 		Interesting topic lisaSea

To borrow a quote that I use on the e group I run…..
It is a beautiful moment when the woman realizes that the man who owns her is her love master, and the man realizes that the girl he bought, looking up at him, tears in her eyes, is his love slave. Then the only danger is that he will weaken. One must be strong with a love slave. If one truly loves her, he will be that strong. The slavery in which a love slave is kept is an unusually deep slavery.
Beasts of Gor, page 236

The love slave is still slave, you see," I said, "and perhaps more so than any other." "Yes," whispered the woman. "She is held in her bondage by the strongest of all bonds," I said, "that of love.'
Mercenaries of Gor, page 318

There is nothing weak in loving a slave or a submissive, however a Master will probably find Himself needing to be stricter then He had been prior because of that love He feels for her.
Master and I have been together for almost four years and we love one another very much. Those that know us both online and offline know that we love each other deeply are truly committed to one another but they also know that I am His slave ( at least those that know of our lifestyle)
Master is the air I breathe, the food for my soul, He is what completes me in every sense of the word.
At this point I guess I do expect to hear “ I love you lil one in return” where before it just made me feel better to let Him know I loved Him… *smiles*

A few other quotes that have always seemed to ring true to me…

The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave. With nothing less can she be fully, and institutionally, content.
Magicians of Gor, page 31


_____________________________

~{seaMi§†}~Kah's

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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/28/2005 11:23:31 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		What price love?

Years ago when I was more innocent and idealistic than I am now, I fell deeply in love with a girl. She did love me but as an honoury brother. We have some wild times, and on one occasion we were both exghausted and soaking wet and freezing. I removed her clothes and got her under a hot shower whilst I placed both our clothes out to dry. I wrapped her in a blanket and after she had sutured a knife wound in my belly, I held her all night whilst she slept. Nothing happened as she knew it would not. I looked after her and on returning to civilization we still had a good relationship albeit platonic. I was who she asked to give her away at her marriage a year later to my best friend... Whilst this is a true story, it echoes remantic tails from medieval periods and is definately Autherian. the point is ,love mattered. the love of one person and honour both combined. The couple to this day never knew of my love for the girl.... Yes love matters as does honour and integrety. Would I do it again? In a word, Yes.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to seaMist)
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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/29/2005 6:37:28 AM   
lisaSea


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/27/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters, Mistresses and slaves...

Thank you one and all for taking the time to respond, I am most grateful :)

seamist, I love those quotes...!!

Best of wishes to all,

lisa{Sea's}

_____________________________

I prefer to think of it as aged to perfection, rather then just plain getting older.

http://www.geocities.com/house_of_sea

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/30/2005 12:15:18 AM   
Petrus


Posts: 17
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings girl,

As most, if not all, gorean masters expect to own the whole girl, then it follows that the girl will, will she or nill she, love her master. Just do not expect him to love her back in the same way. If he does it is his choice.

If he does, then I would expect her slavery to become much harder and intense, as the attainment of perfection will be looked for. The problem is that love and other emotions have as many definitions and gradations as there are masters and slaves, and great emotions lead to thinking with the heart, and that leads to great emotional pain.

The other issue is one of inbuilt learnt societal responses to these emotions and some masters may feel that a girl could be using her emotions to manipulate her masters feelings. Not a good time will be had by all.

Fotunately or unfortunately love and other emotions strike where they will and the master who is in control of himself and his girl(s) will deal with matters as he sees fit. If he does not then the situation is dealing with him.

There are instances in the books, that of Jasons' situation, (in the Guardsman sequence), spring to mind.

So the fence is sat upon again, but if the master is as in control of himself as he should be, then all will be well. If not, then not.

Be well
Petrus

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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/30/2005 9:08:29 AM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		This was asked of the men, but I, too, am an Owner and was trained in and established in a Gorean household.

For me, if I have done a good job as an Owner, my servant(s) will feel love for me. I believe that this is fundamental towards the proper, healthy functioning of the Household.

I, too, will feel love for my servant(s), a love that grows from time and growing affection. Though this is a simplistic description, over time and through training and affection levied, a precious pet would become dearly loved. In the same way, the time and increasing knowledge of a servant brings deep affection, which, over time, would become love.

I think that love does have a place. But love will not impact discipline. Discipline will be levied because of, and despite, affection.

Lady Zephyr

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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/30/2005 9:23:51 PM   
Zoycite


Posts: 24
Joined: 5/15/2004
From: Hopewell Jct, NY
Status: offline 		Hello dearest readers.
(I'm a romantist, please forgive this one)

Love, I've always said it's the strongest emotion anyone could have.. it can make or break a person. It gives everything you have over to one person... you lay next to them, knwoing that nothing can hurt you, but they hold the knife.

I had a pet, before he moved to join the Army, and I loved him dearly. I still do have a place in my heart for him. He was the most amazing person, I knew he would always be there for me. It didn't make me weaker as a person to him... it made me stronger.

And he, is still in love with me. When he can, he calls me. He, yes, was my pet/slave and loved me unconditonally. He never once thought of someone else... not because he was mine, but rather because his heart was mine. I offered for him to be a Dom to someone else (he was a Switch as well) but he would rather be my pet more then anything else.

We were in love, nothing could touch us... then he moved. And I was heart broken. Did that hurt me, of course... was I weak then? Surely.

As a whole, I don't think love makes you weaker.... but a part of me does. I suppose it's because I've been hurt so many times before with emotions.

_____________________________

"Love is a double edged emotion, both pleasure... and pain"

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/zoycite/Untitled6.jpg[/image]

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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 10/31/2005 8:33:22 AM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		Well said leli...this is the misconception that leaves many disenchanted with any lifestyle.....sex is animalistic not out of love........there is a fine line there


Master Six

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I wish you well

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RE: What's love got to do with it.... - 11/1/2005 4:27:34 AM   
Prunesquallor


Posts: 181
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I wrapped her in a blanket and after she had sutured a knife wound in my belly, I held her


Always useful to be with a girl who can suture, I say, comes in handy for those wild nights out.

*boggles*


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