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RE: Key Gorean Protocols


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RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/3/2008 10:39:05 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I post on this board because I've met some really intelligent people and have learned a lot. I stay because of them. The good outweighs the bad.



Greetings elisabella,

IMO, these are valid and appropriate reasons to want to continue participating here and personally I see no problem in that.
Having said that, let me ask you this. If I were to invite you to my home and for the sake of argument, lets say you accepted.(with or without your Master) Would you enter my home and stomp all over my friendly gesture of invite by not respecting the rules of my home and expected bahaviors I have set forth towards my guests?If I asked you not to smoke in my home, because I am allergic to smoke, would you then lite up a cigarette and proceed to fill my house with smoke?
I see it this way. when you choose to participate on this board (Gorean Board) You do so and come into it with a full awareness that we Goreans have certain expectations and protocols, just as we do as individuals in our own home's. We expect you and others to respect our wishes and protocols and when you brazenly disregaurd them, we take offense to it. As I am sure you and your Master would take offense to anyone entering *your* home and disregaurding your wishes and protocols. It is really that simple and I really do not feel we are asking too much of a person to recognize and respect our protocols, specially since by your own free will and choice you participate here.



quote:


I call myself a slave because that's what my Master calls me.  If anyone on this board feels I'm not a slave, then they should stop trying to hold me up to the standards of a slave.  I've already told them I will never measure up to their standards as a slave.  I am happy not measuring up to their standards as a slave.  Like I said I didn't come here to learn how to be a kajira.

I completely understand you are not a Gorean slave and do not wish to be. I am fully aware you are not and do not seek to be a kajira.
However, to say you are a slave or for your Master to view you as and to call you a slave still has and holds the same intent.Even a non Gorean slave is considered property and without rights and it is still very much a matter of social standing and status as much as you dislike that aspect of it.
And this is exactly what we are trying to express to you in hopes you understand this. Noone, including myself is trying to change the dynamics you and your master shares, we are just trying to help you understand, what it entails though for those of us who are Gorean and when you choose to associate yourself amoungst us. At least, that is how I am percieving the expressions others are aiming at you.
I am quite sure you have been around us long enough to know, that we are not people that sugar coat our feelings nor do we cater and coddle to the possible delicate feelings of slaves/submissives or towards other Free for that matter. We are plain and to the point. That often times comes across as perhaps harsh and unfeeling to those who are not of like mind. To us though, it is just being honest and forthright.

When you continue to reply to a Free with foul language and a disregaurd of their status and all of our protocol's as a Gorean community within the confines of this forum, you are only beating your head against a brick wall and frankly, adding more fuel to the fire and proving that you are not who and what you and your Master claims you to be.

There really is a much more mature stable mannor in which you could express your points, elisabella, why not utilize the obvious intellgence you have to do so?

All I ask, is that you give this, my personal last attempt to try and help you understand, a bit of thought. There is no shame in admitting there is a better way, if you truly feel I have made a valid point and that you could possibly end up agreeing with.

be well,
FW Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/4/2008 4:11:22 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		HI Elisbella,

I really don't care if you are acting or not acting as a slave, or what you call yourself, nor am i in any way speaking of your specific behavior -- after all this is a discussion board and well its to discuss not act -- what i have been trying to explain that if you are not a Gorean's slave and not held in Gorean slaves, while you may know Gorean protocols because  for all intent and purposes a monkey can mimic, what i am saying that slaves of Gorean Men don't mimic protocols, slaves of Gorean Men have mindsets and that is what creates all of the understanding that goes with it - kneeling before a Man for example -- most slaves in and out of Gor do it, however, while some other dynamics may do it for whatever reason -- a Gorean's slave does it because he is a Gorean Man and that is part of his expectation of her because she is a slave.  In and of itself the kneeling of a Gorean slave does not create the mindset of a Gorean slave but because he is a Gorean man he has exectations of slaves in general because slaves in general becaue they are kept by Gorean man learn mindsets and beliefs that go with their station because they are owned property.  Gorean slaves do not address Free as they do because they are so and so's Master but because of the mindset within the aspect that is Gorean that identifies their station as a slave.  They obeyed all free because of their station not because they were so and so's slave.  The reason i am asking why you find it necessary to try and "explain" Gorean protocols of a slave when you cannot remotely understand them because you refuse to see beyond the specific relationship to what exists as a status and station and the mindsets that are created. 

Is it fine to be your Master's slave -- yes.  But a woman who lives only in the concept of being her Master's slave and who does no wish to realize there is more to Gorean slavery than the individual relationship and the mindsets and that much of the individual happenings does teach her as a whole concept of status and being to all, will not be able to understand Gorean slavery if she tries and make it only about the individual relationship.  And what is being discussed is Gorean slavery and protocols.  Its okay, many people make the mistake that what they observe about Gorean slavery is a concept most people have with regard to a simple M/s relationship of individuals.  Its not, its about a whole condition and understanding and mindset and more importantly, I believe, a perception of the world around you as a slave to a Gorean Man.  And alll of this exists because of who the Man is -- not who the slave is. 

I am not trying to engage you into defending yourself, i don't want you to nor need you too, but i am trying to explain something you seem to find frightening and don't understand with regard to Gorean slavery and therefore, say you learn about M/s from Goreans -- to learn about the master slave part of Gorean you have to understand that it starts because of who the Man is as a Gorean and that is where the expectations and understandings of the slave come from -- not from the woman, or any non-Gorean Man and woman.....

I know what it is to be in a defensive motivation of posting -- i know how frustrating it is when people start saying being a slave is acting this way and that way -- i know its not.  What i am saying is there is more to Gorean slavery than simply the Master and slave doings..... and in order to fully understand how the protocols exist in the M/s concept you have to, at least, be willing to except that and understand that.  MAny protocols used in Gor are used in other dynamics of M/s, but the protocols in Gor creates a mindset because of who uses them as a tool -- a Gorean Man, and the mindset and understandings of a slave come from this -- not the protocol in and of itself.  And as an aside -- its the mindsets and perception of the Gorean slaves that create what people observe  when they do the actions -- not the actions in and of themselves.

angel


Mod XI, i didn't see your its enough until after i posted this -- if you feel its violating said enough please remove this post. 

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 7/4/2008 4:16:39 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/4/2008 8:42:12 AM   
Jahnaca


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		fr

Greetings

Maahsatti,  I agree with you, she could have errr worded some of her responses in a more errr tempered manner.

What I have issue with is expectations.  This board to my understanding is not Gorean per say, rather a section of a larger forum devoted to discussion of Goreans.  This means we can not expect everyone to conform to our standards, it’s not our home.  Certainly the manner someone presents themselves in will make an impact but to expect adherence to Gorean protocol is really futile at best.

She is not Gorean, nor is her owner, thus Gorean expectation doesn’t apply nor do our definitions of what is and what is not a slave based on our understanding of it.  In other words we can’t have tunnel vision.  While we may not accept her as slave under our standards/definitions, she may well be one under theirs.  Ours is not better then theirs and visa versa.  What she is/was doing was detailing her own protocols, which may or may not differ from our own.   It doesn’t make it wrong, it makes it different.  To condemn her as unGorean well, is like condemning a flower for not being a tree.  She isn’t and admitted such.  There is really no need for further condemnation or the I am better then you stuff flying around.

I would also like to state another point overlooked so far.  If you read the series you will note it wasn’t unthinkable for a slave to be presented as a free woman on occasion in public, for various reasons as determined by the owner.  Again, repercussions of that is a matter of consideration as is anything we happen to do, it’s not though, beyond the realm of possibility. Certainly to at the very least a book Gorean.

Jahna

_____________________________

Mass-produced human beings are attractive only to those who expect to be their benevolent mass producers. John Norman

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/4/2008 11:05:09 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Jahna,


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jahnaca

fr

Greetings

Maahsatti,  I agree with you, she could have errr worded some of her responses in a more errr tempered manner.

What I have issue with is expectations.  This board to my understanding is not Gorean per say, rather a section of a larger forum devoted to discussion of Goreans.  This means we can not expect everyone to conform to our standards, it’s not our home.  Certainly the manner someone presents themselves in will make an impact but to expect adherence to Gorean protocol is really futile at best.


As far as I know, no one is expecting anyone that does not claim to be Gorean or Gorean owned to live up to that community standard. The issue as I saw it, is that person's that claim one thing but do not act like it from any definition I have ever seen applied, will likely get called on it.

quote:


She is not Gorean, nor is her owner, thus Gorean expectation doesn’t apply nor do our definitions of what is and what is not a slave based on our understanding of it.  In other words we can’t have tunnel vision.  While we may not accept her as slave under our standards/definitions, she may well be one under theirs.  Ours is not better then theirs and visa versa.  What she is/was doing was detailing her own protocols, which may or may not differ from our own.   It doesn’t make it wrong, it makes it different.  To condemn her as unGorean well, is like condemning a flower for not being a tree.  She isn’t and admitted such.  There is really no need for further condemnation or the I am better then you stuff flying around.


Actually expectations apply whenever the Free wish to apply them, whether it is justified or not is a personal opinion. Again I do not feel anyone is trying to make anyone else live up to those expectations. Those expectations will always be a little different. You say "While we may not accept her as slave under our standards/definitions, she may well be one under theirs. " and I would like to ask who is "theirs" that you refer to? I do not know of any definition of slave, that would accommodate some of the behavior that has been seen.

quote:


I would also like to state another point overlooked so far.  If you read the series you will note it wasn’t unthinkable for a slave to be presented as a free woman on occasion in public, for various reasons as determined by the owner.  Again, repercussions of that is a matter of consideration as is anything we happen to do, it’s not though, beyond the realm of possibility. Certainly to at the very least a book Gorean.

Jahna


I do not see how this applies. In this situation the person uses the word slave in posts and on the profile she is listed under. While what you state above is true there are further points to it: 1) The slave would be presented to the public as a Free Woman, not as a slave that is allowed to act as Free, and with less manners than seen in a Free Woman. 2) I believe those slaves were still held accountable for their actions by their owner.

The Key Gorean protocol I would apply to my girl in this situation would be severe punishment under the lash, a public apology and restriction from posting. It is the closest I could get to tying her to a pole and having those that were offended administering the punishment. With my current girl I do not have to worry about that though.

Live well,
Orion

P.S. maybe there are some positives that can be brought out of this.

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to Jahnaca)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/4/2008 11:11:38 AM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1711
Status: offline 		Hello Jahna,

I don't condemn anyone because they are or are not Gorean.   I will however judge them on their actions, and as we only have words on line - that is how I judge them, by their OWN words.   I just told someone, every post we make we are judged.   If someone posts in this Gorean thread, you better believe a Gorean will judge them.   I have been accused of being all about "status" and little about substance.   I was judged and by that one person to have been found lacking.  Well Jahna, I had a couple of choices, I could make a post back or ignore.   I think I did both, I made a post back to the person, and then the person went to ignore.  It was a choice, just as everyone that posts has a choice.

Take care,

Liz

(in reply to Jahnaca)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/4/2008 12:19:36 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 7246
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		Tal Liz,
 
It is patently obvious that this girl is getting patted on the head for every annoyance and offense she inflicts. So in the final analysis, it appears to me that she is simply being a good girl pleasing her Master.
 
But the question that was asked was, "at a Gorean event what protocols would you expect to see between Masters and their slaves?" And it should be noted that the question doesn't specify Gorean masters, just a Gorean event. In my experience, non-Gorean masters and their girls attending a Gorean event respect our customs as we would respect theirs if we chose to attend a BDSM gathering.
 
The details of protocol vary from culture to culture, and at various gatherings, but the meaning and significance doesn't. The key to protocol at a Gorean event lies in what is being expressed, not the details of how (e.g., whether or not a girl kneels in Pleasure Slave position, or a visiting non-Gorean sub or slave curtesies or lowers her head).
 
Considering that the Gorean Lifestyles forum is itself a gathering place for Goreans and those interested in learning about Gor, I don't know where that leaves these two. In real life, I rarely see people derive so much enjoyment from annoying and offending folks whose views differ from their own. It seems much more a phenomenon of keyboard courage.
 
IWYW,
 
Kirata
 
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/4/2008 12:23:59 PM >

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/4/2008 1:00:02 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Considering that the Gorean Lifestyles forum is itself a gathering place for Goreans


Greetings Jahna,

Kirata said it well, right here.
That was my point and why I feel those who participate here, should observe and respect our protocols.

I wish you well,
Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Jahnaca)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/4/2008 2:16:46 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 8567
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

So you like your girls to please any man who walks by. THATS FUCKING PEACHY FOR YOU.  My Master happens to LIKE the fact that I put him ABOVE all those other losers who want me to serve them. THATS FINE FOR HIM.

One of the main reasons he stopped posting here was that he felt that everyone was more or less asking him to prove himself.  "If you master your girl OUR way then we will respect you, if not fuck off, you're NOT a real Master."  That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard.




I love your spunk and spirit.

The thing is, you, yourself say that you are not Gorean and only follow or enjoy embracing some of the philosophy's. No need to get too bent out of shape over online screenname's, Elisabella. Seriously. You're here to talk about the philosophy not argue and defend yourself continually, right? Okay, well, the philosophy is that slaves of Goreans don't defend their Master's choices. It's not their job to pick and choose when they will obey or disobey the free based on orders from their Master.

If your Master gives you an explicit order, you are free to ignore the commands, orders or what have you of any free person along the way because you're not Gorean. The slave of a Gorean, however, isn't afforded that luxury. If a slave is ordered by her Master to run to the store, not stop along the way and not to speak to anyone then one would think such a thing would be easy to accomplish. However, if that slave is stopped by a free, made to do some task or something else which is in direct conflict to the orders of her Master, that slave must still obey that free. It's on the Master to ensure their slave can obey, not for the slave to disobey a free.

If the Master didn't want to the slave to be stopped, to engage in other tasks etc. then they should take what actions or precautions are required to ensure that doesn't happen (maybe drive them to the store, send along another free or what have you. I'm not a Master so I don't know! lol) If, in the hypothetical, the slave actually did as their Master required refused to stop for a random free, refused the task .. when they got home, no doubt they'd be punished for failing to please despite the fact it would have been disobedient to their Master. The responsibility lies with the Master, not the slave. Now, the Master might just as easily punish the slave for pleasing the random free at the expense of following their explict orders. Such is why it is often said that a slave of a Gorean leads a harsh life .. often you are in a lose-lose situation through no fault of your own. Slaves do best by pleasing in the moment and not worrying about what the future may hold. Sometimes that means punishment no matter what you do. Such is slave life.

That is the difference between a slave and a gorean slave.

Online, though .. seriously .. I am quite clueless on who is free around here and who is not. I have a pretty good idea about the adults though, and it is those with whom I choose to spend my own time and interact.

My regard to SFM.

_____________________________

۩ "The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." ۩
~Oliver Wendell Holmes~

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/4/2008 9:04:26 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

love your spunk and spirit.



Goreans also like spunk and spirit. it is even quoted in the books that a Master takes much delight in a firey slave girl.
However, there is a vast differance between those two traits and disrespect.
Are you saying you feel disrespect is a commendable trait, to be encouraged?

Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/4/2008 9:29:44 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Evening truble,

quote:

Online, though .. seriously .. I am quite clueless on who is free around here and who is not. I have a pretty good idea about the adults though, and it is those with whom I choose to spend my own time and interact.


Actually this is a simple thing, who cares if they are free or slave, man or woman, dom or sub, if you treat everybody with a little common courtesy, the other things work themselves out, simply because those same folks will treat you the same in return.

Well that is about all I will be adding to this particular issue.

Have a great night,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/5/2008 9:18:27 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		This really seems to be an online issue. When R takes me out to the homes of others they are not strangers but his peers, when he has people into his home they are peers not strangers. Either at his home or out...I behave the same way and offer to get people things and serve things as needed because I wasn't raised in a cave by wolves or in a barn by the cows but in home with parents who entertained people and took their kids out in the world. They taught us basic manners and how to be a good host to houseguests and how to be a good guest in another's home..I just don't think offline you run into these kinds of issues often anyway.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/5/2008 10:46:55 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		-fr-
I know Kirata is going to comment on this ( cheers, K), but here's my draft for Guests of Gor:

In the BDSM community, the word "slave" is about as specific as the word "energy" is in New Age, i.e. not at all.

However, the Gorean community recognizes slavery, which gives the word slave a very different and specific meaning.

Spartan soldiers, as a coming-of-age of sorts, would be sent out to slay some of the slaves working the fields for them. If thrust into the modern day world, would such a man care what label our girls use? No. He'd be interested in whether she's going to keep her head down, fetch his wine and generally get the fuck out of his way unless and until he decides to have his way with her, at which point her job is still his amusement. If the host he's staying with objects to such (in modern eyes callous) treatment, he'd most likely be offended at the lack of hospitality, though one might be sympathetic to a dalliance. And if the slave objects or talks back, the most likely conclusion would be a severed head and a muttered apology about the carpets before tossing some coin on the table to pay for a new slave.

A guest who feels this attitude, if not the extent of the consequences, is representative of their situation... is a slave.

One who does not, would avoid a whole lot of confusion by referring to themselves as a submissive.

The terms are not interchangeable in a Gorean setting, even if we might not be that callous.

And while this is a public forum, confusion does not aid in clear communication.

Health,
al-Aswad.

P.S.: Some of us do enjoy a spirited one, while others have made it clear that they don't.
P.P.S.: Ars, as neph, did share some of her harsher thoughts, but it was for my amusement, not for posting.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/5/2008 11:39:28 AM   
Kimveri


Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		Howdy, Aswad!

Great analogy! (or is that a metaphor?)

Either way, I would think it obvious that anyone uncomfortable with a dynamic such as you've spotlighted could find more accomodating social structures in this great wide world.

IOW, If ya don't like the heat, get outa Dodge, errr...I mean, Sparta...or...hhmm...Gor, yeah, that's it, that's the ticket.

(Ya think I just confused things worse with the 'liberal' mixing of metaphors? ;-P)

Wishing all clarity,

~Kimveri


_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/5/2008 12:17:25 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		G'day. 

Thanks.

It always struck me that it is hard for me to interpret things as anything other than (a) endorsement of slavery in a classic sense, or (b) rejection of slavery in any sense, used only as a metaphor for love and a parody on the radical feminist assertion at the time that men and women could only relate as master and slave. Of course, Norman may not have intended that, but those are the two readings I find compatible with the corpus.

Now, clearly, our practices in this regard are not as callous as those in classic times, but that is as much a matter of our personalities and the legacy of rearing in a society that is hostile to the idea, as it is a matter of the legalities involved. Clearly, so long as the law permits a girl to press charges, most of the girls picked for this are going to be picked in a manner that is more compatible with their nature than would have been the case in classic times. And, by extension, be treated in a manner that is similarly different.

If the community were not so opposed to change, I would rather propose calling such girls our "pets."

I have three readily available references for those who'd like an idea of the difference.

All are contemporary and more easily digested than the Gor books.

The television series Rome illustrates very well (IMO) what a slave factually is: property. Yes, a bond can arise between a kind owner and a slave (e.g. the scene where one slave offers herself to the gods as a sacrifice to fuel a curse to avenge her owner). But they are bought and sold (e.g. the scene where Attia and her daughter are discussing whether a particular slave would make a suitable gift) and treated according to whim (e.g. the scene where a slave is being whipped within an inch of his life because the owner is angry).

The book series Wheel of Time illustrates one kind of human pet, in the form of damane and sul'dam, while the Sword of Truth series illustrates (albeit less realistically) another kind of human pet, i.e. those who are claimed by the Mord'Sith shock troops of D'Hara. One might argue that the da'covale and da'tsang in WoT are examples of the same thing, although I would say that da'tsang are closer to kajirae (hell, the words mean roughly the same thing- despised one- but those in WoT are treated more like one imagines the origins of kajirae would have been on Gor).

Again, though, most are opposed to drawing inspiration from outside sources.

In a living culture, it would be more appropriate to say that we own human pets, yet are not opposed to owning slaves either, should the law allow for such a thing. But this is not presently the case, so any Gorean owning slaves is either engaged in civil disobedience (equates to being an outlaw in such a stagnant society as the one in the books), or is a simple outlaw (again, no difference in the books until the outcome is settled).

Obviously, most of this post is not so much for your benefit (more like verbose agreement in that regard) as for the galleries.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Kimveri)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/5/2008 1:38:30 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 7246
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

I know Kirata is going to comment on this...

Spartan soldiers....

A guest who feels this attitude, if not the extent of the consequences, is representative of their situation... is a slave.
 
"A guest who feels this attitude" is probably hanging around Spartan soldiers, not Gorean Free Men (even of the Caste of Warriors).

For illustrative purposes, I found a nice summary of wider reading here:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Spartan-warriors-The-agility-and-strenght
 
Spartan warriors are trained from infancy to be nothing but soldiers. They are to be perfect in every respect and aspect of war, and nothing else. Weaklings perish soon after birth; youth are taught to thieve and terrorize the slave class to harden them; young men are taught to nothing unless it has something to do with the arts of war - Even music and dance are tehre only to help keep step when marching and obeying orders.
 
Others may care to debate it with you, but I prefer just to register my difference of opinion.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/5/2008 1:39:31 PM >

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 7/5/2008 3:31:21 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		To differences, then.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 1/3/2010 6:14:27 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 1312
Joined: 2/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jakeskajira

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ars

Greetings

I would not expect much, as each relationship is different, I would also not care how a man and his slave interacted whit one another, but I would find it strange if she talked back to him and behaved disrespectfully. I would expect when the slave interacted whit other free for her to be respectful and remember that slave was her status, not just in her relationship but in the community, that means if a free ask her to get a cup of coffee the slave would say yes Master/Mistress and do it, not say you are not my Master so fuck of. Generally obedience and respect is towards all free is what I would expect at a Gorean gathering.

I wish you well



I have to disagree with this. If I were to serve another who ordered me to do something with out Master's permission i'd be breaking my rules from him and that would not be okay with me. I would rather seem unpleasing to a total stranger, than my cherished Master who I hold above all others. If Master told me to get a complete stranger a cup of coffee.. no problem! if a total stranger tried to boss me around? Not quite so much.. I doubt i'd be rude and tell them to fuck off, but I might say "I am not allowed to serve others with out my Owner's permission, than inform them of who my owner is."

Than again, most Master/slave (and goreans) i've met in real life don't act like how many online role players do, they are all pretty laid back and nice people and aren't disrespectful to other people's property. They typically seek out the Master or Owner before approaching the girl out of respect for the girls Master.

I may not be above any free person, but Master always comes first in my book, and he has certain rules for me that I won't break even if it means other's don't see me as pleasing as they might have otherwise.

Regards,
Jake's emma



Greetings All,

I am posting in general but using jakeskajira's old post to do it because it interested me to look and see how other lifestyle goreans meshed with forum goreans. Not very well, it seems. I also notice a couple of other things. First, this real time well respected kajira has the same view as Star in serving strangers. Second, amazingly many of the very same individuals are here discussing the very same topics again, and again, and again,  a year or two in the past. We have a term for this in programming, it is called an infinite loop.

Emma left the thread for her own reasons shortly after this post and I cannot say why out of respect for that Gorean couple, but she did write a piece on another website that discusses the differences in forum and "realitme" or lifestyle Goreans and I mention it here in case any of the non-regulars wish to read what a respected "lifestyle" gorean wrote about the differences, so you might be better informed. 

The difference is dramatic and although we are lifestyle goreans (I have said before and say it again) I do not condemn forum goreans but I  have no wonder why there is always friction between us and them. Anyway, Emma's piece seems to be written from her own experience and is well written as all her writing is IMO and I certainly agree with it as does Star, for what that is worth. You can find it by finding the links on the House of Jake website to the Seattle Gorean Lifestyle website and there you can find her thoughts on this.  

Be well,
Arturas 

(in reply to jakeskajira)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 1/4/2010 6:05:48 AM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1072
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline 		Is that the same group that meets at the WetSpot in Seattle under the guise of gorean?    If so, they also promote the meeting in the woods, http://itw2009.triskeli.org/, which is from my limited knowledge on their function, a whole lot of of role play and BDSM.   You can find more about them on fetlife.com.

In any regards, I'm glad to see you have found something here that speaks to you, the archives can truly be enlightening!

Lisa



_____________________________

"Harry Potter is all about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight, is all about how important it is to have a boyfriend"
--- Stephen King

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 1/4/2010 8:44:51 AM   
Arturas


Posts: 1312
Joined: 2/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

Is that the same group that meets at the WetSpot in Seattle under the guise of gorean?    If so, they also promote the meeting in the woods, http://itw2009.triskeli.org/, which is from my limited knowledge on their function, a whole lot of of role play and BDSM.   You can find more about them on fetlife.com.

In any regards, I'm glad to see you have found something here that speaks to you, the archives can truly be enlightening!

Lisa




Greetings,

I can only tell you what I found following the link you provided, it is a list of real-time presenters in various BDSM skillsets. IMO, many of the basic skillsets are used and required in gorean lifestyles and are present in the Sagas. Here is what I found on that Link for Jake and his kajira,

Master Jake and slave emma

Jake has been with his slave Emma for 3 years as of April 2009. They are active members in the PNW couples group and founding members of the Seattle MasT chapter. Jake runs the Master and slaves group on fetlife.com and the Goreans of Reality discussion group at the CSPC. Jake and Emma are in a monogamous, lifetime Master and slave relationship with a strict, micromanagement style. (my note:, "the following text mentions "public play". This is not necessarily role playing, star and I do public play occassionally as I desire at the Mark club in Nashville and we do it as ourselves although she enjoys being bound and blind folded).


They enjoy BDSM activities and play in public every week.. Jake also is interested in leatherworking, and whip cracking. He is known for being a sadistic bastard and loves any toy that packs a lot of sting. Jake makes rattan and rubber toys and enjoys the concentrated pain these types of toys can dish out.

Jake was first exposed to the Gor books while in elementary school. When Jake and Emma first got together they were reading about different types of Master/slave relationships and were drawn to the Gor books again. They read through the books again and found they fit well with their personal beliefs. Jake now runs their household based on the philosophy and ideals found in the Gor books but does not incorporate any of the sci-fi or fantasy elements.

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Key Gorean Protocols - 1/4/2010 11:21:00 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..

If you've an agreement and interest in emma and Master Jakes views..Master Arturas..I believe you can more readily find them at The Slave Registry.com or Fetlife.com. I think Master Jake is: "Jedi of Gor" on Fetlife.

well wishes

starshine


_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 120
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