OrionTheWolf
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Joined: 10/11/2006
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Greetings Behness,
quote:
ORIGINAL: Behness
Tal Orion,
I thank you for your reply (and to others who answered my question too), but I feel I should clarify a bit more, since my thoughts have become more clear on the question.
Basically, what I meant to ask was in regards to extreme situations, like the new thread on the Gorean Titanic. In extreme situations, life or death, would men feel it is their role to protect women, be them slave or Free. A lot of people have said that Free Men and Women go on the boat, slaves die. While I do see the logic behind that, I find it affronting that a Man would kill a woman to save himself. Ultimately I think it is their duty to protect the weaker sex. A male has a better chance of surviving than a woman does.
Duty is what one accepts. I do not feel it is my duty to protect all females, as duty implies and obligation. I have often stepped into situations to protect someone weaker than I, be they male or female, but that was my choice and not duty (the exception being when I was younger and employed as personal security for someone).
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I am aware the slave didn't die, it was more the thought of a man throwing a female off of a cliff to save himself that made me go, 'what?'.
Tough decisions must sometimes be made, I do not dissect such situations that are extreme because it is impossible to say exactly what one would do. There is always circumstance and differences, and this is where a value judgment and decision must be made.
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I do not yet have a slave mentality, and so I personally would not want to be thrown off of a cliff to save a man.
Would you do so, to save anyone?
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Of course, any slaves here may say differently, and that they would jump off a cliff if it would save their Master, and I won't speak for any embonded female, but I found it affronting that a man would risk killing a female to save himself.
Why do you feel it affronting? Do you feel you are owed something? Now it should be affronting if the male in question owed you a duty of care, but just any male and any female should not. This would presume that all males owe something to all females. There are exceptions, such as those that pledge to the same Home Stone or are a part of the same family. Even then the one in charge must make a decision based upon what they feel is best.
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Basically, this whole ramble comes to the point of - in extreme, life or death situations, do Gorean men believe it is their responsibility to protect women, be they slave or Free?
I do not speak for Gorean Men, and do not define what Gorean is for everyone else. There are plenty of others that have assumed that mantle. I believe it is my responsibility, my duty of care, to protect all of those within my family. Depending upon situation I may defend others of my community (notice the word situation).
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And though slaves have no rights, and are animals in the eyes of Gorean law, if there was a life or death situation, involving only Free Men and female slaves, would the slaves all be killed to save the lives of the Men? Would a Gorean Man willingly kill a hundred pleasing slaves to save himself?
Yes under Gorean law they have no rights, but in the country I live in, they surrender and do not exert their rights due to the mastery placed upon them. Many Men may not speak of this, but at any time that slave can exert those rights. It has been pointed out that some said all the slaves would die, some said all the Free Women would be used to plug the hole, some applied other qualifiers to their statements. There is no blanket answer. Some Gorean Men may very well kill a hundred pleasing slaves to save themselves, and some may not.
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And, ultimately, if a female submitted to become slave, and accepted what is in her heart - a yearning to please Men - does this mean she has no reason to expect to live, ever, even if she is completely pleasing, obedient, and beautiful?
Each situation will have it's own conditions. There are some on here that may reduce this to black and white with blanket statements, but it would be interesting to see firsthand how they actually acted in those situations.
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And, one last question, why should a Free Woman, who is slave in her heart (specific example here, not a generalisation), have any greater right to live than a female who has accepted what she is in her own heart?
Thank you all for your time,
Behness.
I cannot answer that question either. You seem to be looking for absolutes, where there are none. Goreans are as diverse as any human, just that there are some fundamental beliefs that we share that are derived from the series.
If you are looking for guarantees, I will tell you there are none in life, period.
Live well,
Orion
P.S. This are of course my opinions based upon reading the series. You will find others that have differing opinions, and even others that will judge me or someone else not Gorean. Treat them as any other human, because even Goreans come with all the same merits and failings.
_____________________________
Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.
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RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 
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and i love to read. i find it amazing that i grew up devouring Edgar Rice Burroughs books (i know they are different than the Gor books, but a similar genre....) AND i worked for years in a book store and i never found these books! Well, that's one cool thing about life....there are always new things to learn about and grow from. 
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 
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