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RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but were to afraid to ask.


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RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 10:59:47 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		If I could back in time and change the course of events in my life so that I never had my um I would, but I can't. I don't have any issues with putting R first. I don't believe children come first, I believe adults come first, and adult relationships come first. My mother always put my father first and he put her first over us. R's parents put each other first over him. This whole put the kids first even to the detriment of everything else is a new thing and it shows in the generations of entitled brats being reared. I know it is abhorrent to some people that R has full authority over my um and that I don't make any decisions concerning him. My um lives a pretty good life, one he would never have if I didn't submit myself unconditionally to R..in fact his life would be nothing like it is...I think he is better off. Hopefully when he becomes an adult he'll think so too. It is very easy to say just stay free when you have a nature to be free and don't find that type of life a sheer living hell..I'm a better person and more importantly on this issue a better parent because the paramters of my life are determined by someone else.

< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 7/3/2008 11:01:31 AM >

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to ygraine)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 11:29:39 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		To me, raising UM takes two parents.  I would not want UM  if i were a slave to a Man because of my beliefs in raising children, UMs in my former slave relationship were my Master's not mine, therefore, i did not need to be self-determining with regard to them.  The reason i would see difficulties in the concept of slave's in the concept of Gorean slavery is because a mother to me, because of her responsibility as a mother, MUST have self-determination to make decisions.  She must be capable of putting the best decision forth and fight for that decision if she feels its the correct decision  (luckily most parents tend to do this together, but there are time a wife must fight for a decision she things is best and visa versa), to me a slave is not capable of this type of self-determination in a Gorean slavery relationship.  The way she is kept takes her own autonomy so how can she have autonomy for a UM's best interest and still not have her autonomy to be a slave and lack self-determination?  How is a slave of a Man in the Gorean sense capable and able to be responsible based on the fact she has no autonomy in which to be self-determining unless and until that is given back to her by the Man?

Somehow, people work it out, somehow and sometimes its awesome, others not so much.  Whether its the Man controling everything or many times the woman is capable of being self-determining in the best interest of everyone herself included or if the Man somehow allows her full autonomy and still calls her slave so she has that ability to be a parent.    How is a woman capable of being self-determining and autonomous for someone else, when as a slave she cannot be and more importantly is not allowed to be for herself alone?

I can't say i understand it as i have never experienced it, i know its something that IS worked through and out within this concept of Gorean slavery even as many women are faced with such a situation, but in knowing slave i think it would be very difficult to know when as a slave you should be self-determining and autonomous for lack of better word against the Man who owns you and when to remember you are the slave and that in and of itself is what guides you even to the detriment of those who you are responsible for based on being a mother.

I admire people who figure it out and still have the full experience they crave and need as a slave..  But i also envy those who do have the family, for there is no greater gift.  Good luck to those who must deal with decisions and sacrifices such as these.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to ygraine)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 11:43:02 AM   
Jahnaca


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Ygraine

Actually my experience doesn’t prove your point at all.  It’s not because of my ums, it is because of him.  In fact to have or not to have ums wasn’t part of the equation at all.

quote:

I do not believe a woman should deprive herself of happiness but I do believe if she is the primary caregiver she has an obligation to put her responsibilities first.


I happen to fully agree with your statement, though I don’t believe that slavery or not is part of the equation in totality.  Indeed she can put her parental responsible first (as she should) but in the right situation with the right man she can with trust place control in the hands of her man.  It may well be the best way for her to be responsible in fact.  Not everyone fits a static definition of right and wrong.

quote:

I think the issue for me is the risk of enslavement and the additional risks that incurrs.


Enslavement is risky, even without baggage.  We are back again to a basic principle.  Who is he.  See the type of man you will surrender/submit or any other word your going to include will be the very foundation your basing a relationship on.  I often say if you can’t trust him with your cat, your house, your car, your mortgage, your life and the lives of your loved ones, you have no business what so ever to be his slave, for that matter, in a serious committed relationship of any kind.  Kind of takes away many “risk” factors if you are prepared to do the grunt work in knowing him to the best of your ability and trusting him to that degree.

quote:

Perhaps I take the idea of enslavement in too dogmatic of a way.


Perhaps you do.  Perhaps your opinion is based on other factors, I know Kim would be looking at this issue from a different angle.  What it doesn’t mean is that a successful relationship of this type is impossible, difficult yes but not impossible.

Jahna


_____________________________

Mass-produced human beings are attractive only to those who expect to be their benevolent mass producers. John Norman

(in reply to ygraine)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 11:50:28 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		-FR-

Sooner or later, somebody's got to ask "Everything you always wanted to *WHAT* about Goreans...."

Lots of possible verbs come to mind...

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to Jahnaca)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 12:12:35 PM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

-FR-

Sooner or later, somebody's got to ask "Everything you always wanted to *WHAT* about Goreans...."

Lots of possible verbs come to mind...

Tim


Thew ahu thwickud, Thim.
 
Thith ith meath bithing muwhy twung vwevwhy thward.  I thwill noth thay thwut cu-am thwu muwhy mwind.  Thhhnooooo, thnooooooooo, I thwill noth....
 
Gwathe

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 12:20:34 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7228
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Nevermind, Jahna said it better than I.

< Message edited by OrionTheWolf -- 7/3/2008 12:21:37 PM >

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to ygraine)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 12:25:01 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3033
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ygraine

Hello Jahna and Grace,
I agree the best partner is the best idea.  I think Jahna, you actually kind of proved my point, heh.  I think there is nothing wrong with being submissive to a man in a relationship.  I think the issue for me is the risk of enslavement and the additional risks that incurrs.  Perhaps I take the idea of enslavement in too dogmatic of a way.  I do not believe a woman should deprive herself of happiness but I do believe if she is the primary caregiver she has an obligation to put her responsibilities first.  Its not forever you know, it is just until they are on their own.  Then, in my opinion, she is free to beg relentlessly, hopelessly, and find complete surrender.
Ok that scared me. 
Y


Greetings Mistress,

I understand that your opinion comes from a place of concern for the ums involved in these situations.  I also understand my own situation, my strengths and weaknesses. 

I am more than capable of doing well on my own.  I don't need help or guidance  paying bills or earning money or staying organized or raising my ums. 

I also know that I am much better at everything I do when I am in an M/s relationship.  When I chose to submit to SJ, it was with the full knowledge of who he is, the kind of man he is, his ideologies, his beliefs and with the complete understanding of the kinds of interactions and influences he would have in relation to my ums.  In my experience, and the experience of close friends, it has much more to do with our choice of Master than our abilities as parents. 

Yes, I could have waited the 8 years to have sought a Master  - it wouldn't have made me a better parent.  I chose wisely when I sought a Master and that makes me a responsible parent.

well wishes ~ fairer than she


_____________________________

"The girl shows up tomorrow evening for some time together...and I need someone to fuck with, so things are looking up, I reckon. "

"The girl is a world class somnambulist." ~ Senor Jaime

(in reply to ygraine)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 12:37:40 PM   
Kimveri


Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		~FR~

Howdy, folks,

As Jahna already mentioned, I approach the whole issue of ums from a different viewpoint.

I know that it's possible for a fully mastered & enslaved woman to raise children. There are more than a few couples doing precisely that right now. Some are even doing it well. Of course, "well" is a comparative evaluation. They are parenting "well" compared to the majority of parents out there in this big, wide world. When you think about all the things that today's youngsters are missing, lacking or struggling through, it seems to me that it doesn't take much effort to do better than most.

So, we are clear that its possible for a slave to do a good job as a parent. Also, its clear that its certainly possible, as well as probable, that a healthy Gorean (or non-) M/s couple will do a better-than-average job as a parent.

Two things bother me about that: 1) "Average" people achieve average results. Its exceptional people who achieve exceptional results. Promoting an exceptional result as something just anyone could accomplish is pretty unrealistic. Its also a bit intellectually dishonest -- we know "just anyone" can't do it so why present it as if they should expect to succeed effortlessly?

2) Is "better-than-average" anything close to "excellent"? Would a Gorean builder be proud of a "better-than-average" house? Would that clearly display his values, his caste codes, to all who looked upon the product of his efforts? Living with a Gorean builder (or UNbuilder, if you wish ;-D) I can assure you that "better-than-average" (or the ever-popular "good enough for government work") is NOT anything close to his best effort.

Excellence in one's efforts has always seemed to me to be an integral aspect of living Gorean. Why are we so all-fired eager to lower the bar of said excellence in efforts with our ums?

Somewhere else on the board someone asked about raising the "second generation of Goreans". I have to wonder how that is even possible when we aren't exemplifying with excellent efforts Gorean values to them in our most vital & intimate relationships. 

quote:

"Many Earth moralities make people little; the object of Gorean morality, for all its faults, is to make people free and great. These objectives are quite different it is clear to see. Accordingly, one would expect that the implementing moralities would also be considerably different."~pgs8&9Marauders


I wish you all well,

~Kimveri

{edited to include the many non-Gorean couples who parent well...}

< Message edited by Kimveri -- 7/3/2008 12:42:58 PM >

_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 12:41:52 PM   
Vestonika


Posts: 95
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		Kimveri is always so sexy... you're fun to read :)

(in reply to Kimveri)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 1:33:56 PM   
Kimveri


Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		~FR~

Okay, one last thing to ponder...

In the past, I've suggested to some women that it's not really important that the relationship be an M/s situation, but that the truly vital point is that they find a man whom they can trust & love fully. Some women do not agree with me. So I began asking a standard question:

"If this man you are with -- whom you love & are devoted to, who has mastered you fully -- decided to free you to be his companion, leading & nurturing you to live a life exemplifying the values of Gorean free, what would you do?"

You would be shocked how many would use that freedom to uproot themselves & their ums in order to go find another who will own them, master them & enslave them.

For many its ALL about the mastery, not the man.

~Kimveri



_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to Kimveri)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 1:39:12 PM   
slavetaboo


Posts: 408
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters,
Greetings Mistresses,
Greetings slaves,

In reading the replies to my question, I have felt the urge to respond several times yet I have refrained from doing so until now. I thought it was better to collect my thoughts rather than respond based on emotion. The only disclaimer I am prepared to offer is to say that this post will be presented in a factual method and might seem blunt as it has been composed to be direct.

Several of the responses here seem focused or branch off from my or any slaves ability to parent. This is not the point of my question. I am a good parent and I provide very well for my sons. We live a good life. It is our truth and I do not have a need for others to believe it. The belief or disbelief of others does not make it more or less true for us and our lives.

I ask readers to please re-read my previous questions, reposted here for convenience.

quote:


(1) Is this more appealing to a man who wishes to possess than a more well adjusted girl who is capable of managing her normal day to day adult responsibilities?

(2) Is a girl in distress seen as more helpless and more dependent upon the owner?

(3) When choosing a slave, is it easier for the man if a girl has alot of problems and he can easily scoop her up and take her away from them and improve her life immediately with little or no involvement from others such as family OR the alternative being a girl who has made a life for herself and looks to add or enrich it and change it for the better. Is the trouble of working through changes with someone well rooted in their life not worth it?

(4) The situation I was attempting to describe is one where I am speaking with someone who is interested in me then becomes less interested when they think of the reality of moving me from where I am now and to them. For example, I live in Georgia. If I met someone far away, my sons and I would have to move. This would remove us from the life we are accustomed to living now. My question isn't about my concerns with this. It is about someone becoming less interested or disinterested because I have family ties to my children and my own extended family and sees this as something that they would not want to take away from me.


For arguements sake, let's remove many things from the equation.
Imagine if you wish, a single girl who has built a decent life for herself. She is close to her family and friends and lives a relatively responsible and happy life in America. If a man who lives in another country took an interest in this girl do you suspect that he might not allow his interest to develop further because he would be concerned with moving this girl so far away from everything that she knows? This girl would then be far from family and far from the familiar things and support she has surrounded herself with during the course of her life. I suspect it would be the closest thing to starting completely over in life.

In addition, is a girl who is not as well set up or responsible or lacking in family ties and connections more appealing or easier to move in a scenario like the one described above? Is a more responsible or seemingly independent girl less appealing?

Some of the replies given before this post have left me feeling dumbfounded with regard to what the free and slaves feel a slave is actually capable of. It almost seems as though the expectation is low if you look at some of the replies so far.

I am seeking male feedback about moving a slave to you from far away perhaps even from another country. Concerns, thoughts and advice are welcome, encouraged and appreciated.

_____________________________

For I long for a man with nests of wild things in his hair.

(in reply to Kimveri)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 9:27:59 PM   
FrankAr


Posts: 571
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings taboo,

A free man whom sees this thought of a strong female that can stand up in the world and then also be striving to the desire of a wanton slave in the presence of a warm blanket......this blanket being a male that can absorb the family and then absorb her life within his to a certain extent that she can just sleep at night in his arms.......or at the base of the bed when she is sick.....just chuckles away at this thought. 

The female has strength mentally, so there is a re assurance that the female is not tending to loose her control in any circumstance when the owner is not there for a few hours while he is away at work.  She has her life in a way that the male makes it a circle, he would make her complete.  She would submit to him in such a way that he would own her and yet she can hold her head up high with the ability of knowledge of family guidance......and she better know of colour co-ordination even in pants....ugh........laughs even more...........and tops......just chuckles.

But in all honesty maybe it is not a scenario that can be held in a total sense, but by individuality that it can only be done case by case, for it can't be measured by across the board.

Just my two cents. or copper tarsks worth.

Frank Ar.


_____________________________

I am just me, simple ol me.

Even the softest whisper can be heard in the loudest group....Frank H.

(in reply to slavetaboo)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 11:31:01 PM   
slavetaboo


Posts: 408
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		Yes Master

_____________________________

For I long for a man with nests of wild things in his hair.

(in reply to FrankAr)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/3/2008 11:38:09 PM   
Hiskajirah


Posts: 929
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kimveri

~FR~

Okay, one last thing to ponder...

In the past, I've suggested to some women that it's not really important that the relationship be an M/s situation, but that the truly vital point is that they find a man whom they can trust & love fully. Some women do not agree with me. So I began asking a standard question:

"If this man you are with -- whom you love & are devoted to, who has mastered you fully -- decided to free you to be his companion, leading & nurturing you to live a life exemplifying the values of Gorean free, what would you do?"

You would be shocked how many would use that freedom to uproot themselves & their ums in order to go find another who will own them, master them & enslave them.

For many its ALL about the mastery, not the man.

~Kimveri




Greetings Mistress

I might do a happy dance for 5 minutes and then freak out, not know how to be, then fall to my knees and beg the collar back. I've often wondered what it would be like to be free for once in my life, but honestly I don't think I could handle it. I would be so lost. Or be free in conversation and reply with yes Master and find myself enslaved once more without having to beg.

With respect,
~twinkle

_____________________________

"Do not try to force me to be what you want me to be! Accept me for what I want to be,&am!—one who knows she belongs at the feet of men!&desires to be at the feet of men!-their slave!!—their loving slave!” Witness
www.CRPSAdvisory.com

(in reply to Kimveri)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/4/2008 3:06:44 AM   
Cherylmazana


Posts: 1151
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		I keep saying to women over and over, start a Gorean relationship first, then decide how you feel free or enslaved.

Most simply want the mastery and don’t really care about the Gorean philosophy behind it.

Cheryl

(in reply to Hiskajirah)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/4/2008 4:52:17 AM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1710
Status: offline 		Heya Cheryl,

I have a question for you....from your post, what are you saying?  Which came first the chicken or the egg?   I may look at this differently - I think it's not only how the woman feels, but what the man also feels is best for her AND meet his needs.  Her natural state may be one of freedom, her natural state may be one of enslavment.    If the woman feels her natural being is free, and the man wants her to be his slave - the woman has a choice.   Which is more important to her.  Her freedom or his wishes.   

I often think of Verna and Marrlenus.   He really knew her natural state was free - though she did become his slave, but then if my hamstrings were threatened....which opens up a whole new discussion for a different post.  But at any rate, he set her free.  

Take care,

Liz

(in reply to Cherylmazana)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/4/2008 5:08:57 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
quote:

"For many its ALL about the mastery, not the man. 


Hi Kimveri,

I thnk you are absolutely correct and well not so much lol hows that for a day off contradition.  A woman who is a slave cannot separate the two, when they see the Man they feel the mastery, when they see the Man they see a Master. Many slaves have no clue or really any need to know the Gorean philosophies, but many in getting to know the "Master" who they react to as slave, they learn different aspects of Gorean.  To me, a slave if she is held by a Gorean Man, has no need to ever learn what it is to be a Gorean FW -- when she is a slave - there is no need for her to attempt to understand the self-determination and how the philosphies that allows effect her life as a FW.  I see many people who tend to believe FW are mentors or rolemodels for slaves and to me this cannot be the farthest thing from what a slave should think of as a mentor or rolemodel.  FW and slaves within Gor are two very different worlds, mindsets, and perceptions of their world. 

Is it capable for a slave to become a FC, sure, but it would probably be a lot of work because in all actuality she would need to learn a whole different perception of the world around her and understanding of herself and some women find that this "new" woman is not what she should be, but for many women it isn't about a decision or determination, its about needs and reaction. To me, to many people believe Gorean slavery of a woman is really a choice -- i never have believed it is -- its a need and a reaction.

So when you say to some its all about the mastery and not the Man -- i cannot agree, to some woman they cannot separate the two for the Man is the Master because of how she reacts to him.   

Personally lol Gorean Men are men to drive a woman bonkers if she is allowed her own choices in how she exists in his life.  That being said if a Man chooses to make a slave a FC, then in al intent and purposes just as he made her a slave, i think he woud benefit himself to make her a FW.  This is not a choice of a woman, if he fails to bring her out of the mastery and into the self-determination of being a FW then i have a feeling the woman will leave to seek what she needs because he has created that need that for all intent and purposes needs to be fed by mastery -- not her own self-determination.

angel




_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to Cherylmazana)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/4/2008 5:10:01 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Cheryl, Personally, i don't believe any woman who wants to be a slave needs to learn the philosophies behind it BEFORE becoming a slave -- that to me is what the slavery teaches her.  More importantly, i don't think she should try and learn the philosophies behind the slavery before becoming a slave for until she is one -- she won't understand it.  And you also speak as if being Free or slave is the woman's choice/determination.  Its not, in my opinion, if a woman is susceptible to a Man's mastery because he has compelled the slave -- more than likely the choice is not hers and she will find herself a slave to him if he chooses to master her. 

In a personal experience, i would have never became a slave if i had known the philosophies behind it prior to being one.  grins, i mean what self-respecting woman would become a concept in which she is helpless, vulnerable, without choices, being controlled and mastered by a Man who doesn't respect you, has no need to respect you, or allow you dignity and choice of modesty and allow you self-determination in your own life and about your own life and who wants to teach you that your status in the world is lower than others because you are nothing but a slave to Men based on your own needs and desires that are out of your control.  Now this isn't technically philosophies in the formal concept but it is what a slave learns on her knees before a Gorean Man and this shapes her peception and mindset.

Now, after being a slave to a Man, i ask myself the same question in reverse about being a FW, how can i want to exist without that with a Man. 

Sometimes the old song pops up -- i wish i didn't know now what i didn't know then. sometimes i wish i could start the whole thing over again.

Do you ever think in Gor -- sometimes a woman can simply know too much of well Gorean?

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 7/4/2008 5:36:22 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/4/2008 5:18:53 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		Hi Kimveri,

A non-gorean answer but I have pondered the what if he stopped dominating you question before.  If he "freed" me, stopped dominating me, and wanted me to stay with him, I'd stay for my um for now. I would be very unhappy. I'm a submissive woman, I want to submit to a very powerful dominant man, my sexuality, my being is in that. So eventually yes, I'd probably end up submitting myself to the dominance of another man. I'd never react to R the same way again..my entire life hums with eroticism because he dominates me. I have zero sexual response to men who don't dominate me(in fact I prefer women in that case) so our sex life would go down hill fast and that would make us both unhappy. You can teach me to deny who I am.  However in the presence of a very dominant man, I'd submit and that man could take me away from R because R would no longer be dominating me. I react to male dominance exerted over me by submitting fully, it feels right to submit to it, anything else doesn't feel right, it skeeves me right down to my core. I don't know what other women would do in that case I can't even fathom being with a man who was my peer or not more powerful than myself or who could not or would not impose his will on me...there would just be nothing there, I'd resent him in very short order, and while sex may not be that important to some people to me it matters. I don't get my crank turned by a man who doesn't dominate me and that includes outside of bed as well. I don't know how you teach that out of someone, I'll be curious to see how the slaves of goreans feel about it. I guess yes for me it is darn close to being about the Mastery or another way to put it all about the dominance level of the man and the amount he exerts over me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kimveri

~FR~

Okay, one last thing to ponder...

In the past, I've suggested to some women that it's not really important that the relationship be an M/s situation, but that the truly vital point is that they find a man whom they can trust & love fully. Some women do not agree with me. So I began asking a standard question:

"If this man you are with -- whom you love & are devoted to, who has mastered you fully -- decided to free you to be his companion, leading & nurturing you to live a life exemplifying the values of Gorean free, what would you do?"

You would be shocked how many would use that freedom to uproot themselves & their ums in order to go find another who will own them, master them & enslave them.

For many its ALL about the mastery, not the man.

~Kimveri




< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 7/4/2008 5:35:20 AM >

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to Kimveri)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/4/2008 5:21:49 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Yeah what she said - points to chewsie. 

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 60
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