Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but were to afraid to ask.

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Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but were to afraid to ask.

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but were to afraid to ask.

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Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but were t... - 6/25/2008 11:26:20 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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Tal and greetings all,

I am opening this topic for the reason expressed in the title. Simply for people to ask questions and hopefully some of the great men and women around here will be kind enough to answer. It is an invitation to those new people around here, those lurkers, those people just passing by, to ask a question without having to start an entirely new subject. I know, I can already here the groans, about if they seriously wanted answers they would take the initiative to start the topic... I simply remind these folks that others are afraid to be pounced upon, by the "brutal, elitist, Goreans".

So in a good faith effort, I open this up for any and all questions, only asking that you remember to use a bit of common courtesy.

I wish you all well,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

Post #: 1

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/26/2008 11:14:46 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 15303
Joined: 3/14/2005
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Tal Thadius,

This is a good idea. Well done.

Tim

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Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 2

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/26/2008 11:23:12 AM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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Tal Tim,

Thanks.
Afterall, isn't this the purpose of having a discussion board? Especially, on a site such as Collarme.
I do wonder though if it will even be used.

As always,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 3

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/26/2008 6:02:20 PM

lighthearted

Posts: 1165
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline

greetings all,

ok, I'll bite. I was thinking of this the other day. is John Norman a Gorean? meaning, does he practice Gorean philosphy as he has written it? I realize that it may be impossible to know as I don't know how many out there know him personally.

best,
lh

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"Thou art to me a delicious torment." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 4

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/26/2008 6:21:16 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 15303
Joined: 3/14/2005
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***changed my mind and decided to pass on this one***

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/26/2008 6:33:35 PM >

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to lighthearted)

Post #: 5

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/26/2008 6:41:05 PM

beargonewild

Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Greetings,

The one thing which I find I have a difficult time trying to comprehend is trying to understand what exactly about the Gor books that so many people are drawn to adopt and adapt many of the concepts of Norman's books into their own lives. To use Frank Herbert as an example, he had created an entire universe, society, government etc through the Dune books. Yet I don't believe there is a following of people who have taken much of the concepts and tenets from the Dune series into reality and then modeled their own lives around Arrakian society.
I am wondering if it's because Norman's concepts of Gorean society is more logistical than Herbert's or is it possible that Herbert's concepts are too far fetched?
Any enlightenment is appreciated and thanks.

_____________________________

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That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

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(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 6

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/26/2008 7:36:46 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7200
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Greetings,

Norman is a Libertarian, not a Gorean.

Live well,
Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: lighthearted

greetings all,

ok, I'll bite. I was thinking of this the other day. is John Norman a Gorean? meaning, does he practice Gorean philosphy as he has written it? I realize that it may be impossible to know as I don't know how many out there know him personally.

best,
lh

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.

(in reply to lighthearted)

Post #: 7

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/26/2008 8:08:50 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lighthearted

greetings all,

ok, I'll bite. I was thinking of this the other day. is John Norman a Gorean? meaning, does he practice Gorean philosphy as he has written it? I realize that it may be impossible to know as I don't know how many out there know him personally.

best,
lh

Greetings lighthearted,

As you suggest many of us do not or never will know the man on a personal level. So any answer would be strictly a guess on my part. Although he has written a few words here and there about the "phenom".

"How astonishing is the world-wide Gorean phenomenon!

How unexpected, certainly to me, that anything so different, and so remarkable, could occur.

It was not suspected, it was not sought, it was not envisioned.

I sometimes think of myself as some fellow wandering about, say, a thousand years ago, in some wilderness, who might by accident have discovered magnetism, or some new force of nature, one he did not understand, but one whose reality, once glimpsed, was as undeniable as that of iron ore, or rain, or wind, or lightning. He brings his discovery to the halls of indoctrination, mistakenly, and learns to his surprise that reality may not exist without permission and approval. It is permitted to exist only selectively, and then must be authorized, even licensed. The unlicensed reality is to be denied, or, at least, discreetly concealed." - John Norman (an excerpt from an open letter to the Gorean community) http://gorchronicles.com/modules/wfchannel/#jnwelcome

The rest of the letter is an interesting read. I wish I could be more specific.
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to lighthearted)

Post #: 8

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/26/2008 8:17:29 PM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

Greetings,

The one thing which I find I have a difficult time trying to comprehend is trying to understand what exactly about the Gor books that so many people are drawn to adopt and adapt many of the concepts of Norman's books into their own lives. To use Frank Herbert as an example, he had created an entire universe, society, government etc through the Dune books. Yet I don't believe there is a following of people who have taken much of the concepts and tenets from the Dune series into reality and then modeled their own lives around Arrakian society.
I am wondering if it's because Norman's concepts of Gorean society is more logistical than Herbert's or is it possible that Herbert's concepts are too far fetched?
Any enlightenment is appreciated and thanks.

With the current exploration of Mars, and impending fuel crisis... we may see them spring up.

I think it has more to do with the reflection of what was going on in society at the time and then providing parodies of such in the books. It is quite evident in the books that the doctor used his degree in philosophy to pull things together.

I hope that helps,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to beargonewild)

Post #: 9

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/26/2008 8:23:27 PM

Cherylmazana

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Joined: 10/4/2007
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When people write books they put themselves into those books, part of their subconscious comes out to play. John Norman is a professor of philosophy who incorporated much of his own academic learning and subconscious beliefs into the books. He doesn’t want to enquire too deeply into what is behind his books while I cant say for sure why, he is most likely aware that him over analysing them could stop the creative flow.

He explains in his book imaginative sex how such concepts as the M/s relationship can be role-played between consenting adults in the privacy of their bedrooms to enhance their sex life.

Is John Norman Gorean? That depends on how you define Gorean, he does not live a “lifestyle” as far as I am aware, but being Gorean is more than shacking up with a slave and putting a fur rug on your chair and voila insta Gorean. It is living by the philosophies and he has never confirmed or denied those as far as I am aware, others might know more.

Cheryl

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 10

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/26/2008 10:03:27 PM

Aswad

Posts: 6617
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

To use Frank Herbert as an example, he had created an entire universe, society, government etc through the Dune books. Yet I don't believe there is a following of people who have taken much of the concepts and tenets from the Dune series into reality and then modeled their own lives around Arrakian society.

The Dune series did inspire me to think thoughts I otherwise would not have, such as to inquire further about cause and effect and the opposition of predestination and free will, or to examine consequences and causal chains on larger time scales. At the time, I was too young to have read any classic philosophy, so it was an important catalyst in that regard. I did not, however, feel any need to model my life around Arrakian culture, just as I don't feel a need to model my life around Gorean culture (it's an incomplete and dead culture, in my view, and one without any viable migratory path from here to there).

quote:

I am wondering if it's because Norman's concepts of Gorean society is more logistical than Herbert's or is it possible that Herbert's concepts are too far fetched?

Norman's concepts are hardly his own. The blend is his, but the ingredients are classic. What he has done is juxtapose various ideas out of classic philosophy, history and so forth, and mix it with a satire on the contemporary radical feminist accusations that all sex and marriage was tantamount to slavery. By implementing the latter as an entirely literal fact in the series, and the former by reinventing and rearranging other sources, he's arrived at a somewhat unique blend.

It's not so much that people have taken things literally from the series (or there would be far more large-scale agreement internally on how to interpret and adapt things), but more a matter of the series acting as a catalyst. It has inspired men (and women) of a certain disposition to consider life in a different light, which has prompted them to arrive at reasonably similar conclusions about what humans, life and society are about.

And, of course, some have just used it as an excuse to cover up their own weakness.

The latter can hardly be considered in line with anything Gorean, though.

Cliff notes: Norman caused some to review the basics.

"And he saw that it was good..." ®

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to beargonewild)

Post #: 11

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/27/2008 5:48:14 PM

slavetaboo

Posts: 408
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline

Greetings Master,

I have heard more than one man speak of taking on a girl who had some major life trouble. I'm referring to things such as emotional baggage, financial liability, psychological distress, drugs, alcohol, health concerns, promiscuity or some other predicament.

Is this more appealing to a man who wishes to possess than a more well adjusted girl who is capable of managing her normal day to day adult responsibilities?

Is a girl in distress seen as more helpless and more dependent upon the owner?

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For I long for a man with nests of wild things in his hair.

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Post #: 12

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/27/2008 6:00:58 PM

Thadius

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Joined: 10/11/2005
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Evening taboo,

I suppose it would depend on the man. Perhaps, he sees the diamond in the rough, or he just has a thing for neediness. I would guess though that most men look at the cost (time and financial) and weigh it vs the possible 'net' value the girl will have.

For me personally, I prefer a woman that is well adjusted, as it is a more stable foundation to begin building and or removing the debris. I don't mind the challenges that come up, but I am not a masochist (perhaps that is why I enjoy sailing, but have never bought a boat) willing to invest my time and effort into something that will not yield a return.

I hope that answers you question, if not feel free to be more specific.
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to slavetaboo)

Post #: 13

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/27/2008 9:01:43 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavetaboo

Is a girl in distress seen as more helpless and more dependent upon the owner?

If I want a girl dependent on me, I'll make her dependent on me. What matters is whether I can find a way to bring her into my life that is acceptable to me and will meet my various standards, most of which revolve around being able to provide for my household and those staying under my roof... family, guests, slaves/pets...

Unlike what seems to be the general case here, I'm also interested in what the girl's deal is, because I'm a very multifaceted person. Make no mistake, Ars is the companion and that is not a role anyone else will even approach (Torvie wrath is not to be toyed with). A girl will have to have some value to the household, which doesn't have to be the usual formula, but which will still be about the people that always matter the most: the Free.

Baggage or no baggage, dependent or independent, these aren't deal breakers or makers.

Right now, though, there are very few candidates that could break even.

As for what evokes a certain response: puppy face.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to slavetaboo)

Post #: 14

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/27/2008 9:10:23 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Perhaps, he sees the diamond in the rough, or he just has a thing for neediness.

Diamonds in the rough can be as exciting as a dilapidated mansion.

What beats a diamond in the rough, though, is a solitary rose in the desert.

quote:

I would guess though that most men look at the cost (time and financial) and weigh it vs the possible 'net' value the girl will have.

From looking around, it seems that most weigh their needs and wants against the qualities of the girl, along with evaluating whether they can provide a standard of care for her that they deem acceptable without making unacceptable sacrifices to do so. Thus, much as we'd like to think otherwise, girls are only truly interchangeable in the hands of interchangeable men. And I'd like to think none of us aspire to be that.

If there weren't legal issues, some of us would no doubt find the prospect of capturing girls solely for their work capacity or their sexual utility to be an appealing one. And no few would run the risk of finding themselves used up or harshly treated, or whatever... such is simply the reality of slavery. That's a rather moot point, though, as I can't for the life of me think of any reason other than love that a man would run so substantial risks as that to acquire a girl. Simply put, if he doesn't have that attachment, then the value of a mere kajira is not worth the risk.

As such, there will always be many factors.

Leonidas mentioned an open door policy. I'm quite sure that door swings both ways.

For me, I happened across that solitary rose growing in the desert, suffocated by the base rock, and saw within the potential to be something more. While there is a ways still to go, that is always the case for humans, and the road travelled thus far is quite impressive, and has been immensely rewarding. Notably, as an example, I wouldn't have been exposed to the ideas that catalysed my worldview into what it is now, nor would I have been the sort of man who had the life experiences to support it.

Then again, I always did hope she would realize her place by her nature is at my side.

And she eventually did. Got to love gardening.

Health,
al-Aswad.

< Message edited by Aswad -- 6/27/2008 9:17:36 PM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 15

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/27/2008 9:26:08 PM

Thadius

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Hehe, everytime I have been in the desert, I have the sand fleas eating me to death, or tracer rounds flying... Didn't notice any solitary roses, however I am sure, they must be exquisite.

There is definitely another value beyond the financial at play when one chooses a slave... while certain baggage may not be deal breakers to some, to others that baggage can completely rule the girl out. I would hope that others consider the ammount of work and other important factors that are going to be required when selecting a girl. I guess it is something akin to selecting a pup... if you work 18 hours a day, live in a studio apartment, and have bad knees, you probably should rule out breeds such as Newfies or St Bernards. Knowing ones own limits definitely should (there's that word again) play a role.

Not that I am disagreeing with you, just elaborating my point a bit more.
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 16

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/27/2008 9:36:21 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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Tal Thadius,

quote:

Hehe, everytime I have been in the desert, I have the sand fleas eating me to death, or tracer rounds flying...

There were plenty of those, albeit of a less literal sort.

quote:

Didn't notice any solitary roses, however I am sure, they must be exquisite.

Depends on one's sense of aesthetics.

Is it the line, placed just so? The symmetry, or the almost casual lack of it? Perhaps its the transience, or the permanence? Maybe the flowing forms? Simplicity? Complexity? For me, it is- at least in part- the juxtaposition. The contrast that highlights what we are seeing by putting it in an environment where it is alien and exotic, yet clings to life and retains its nature and form.

quote:

I guess it is something akin to selecting a pup...

Quite. One size hardly fits all.

quote:

Not that I am disagreeing with you, just elaborating my point a bit more.

It's appreciated.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 17

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/28/2008 12:54:41 AM

FrankAr

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Joined: 10/1/2005
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Tal Thadius,

Great to see you back, thought you might have dissappeared trying to sort out your personal library.....chuckles away.

My main question would be...Why are the idiots that give the wrong message about Gor through their fantasy eyes crap listened by so many people out there ?

I mean that when I write a short mail to a sub or a slave about their journal or their profile, they come back with ....well when I talked with a man from Gor and he abused the crap out of me I hate Gor people from then on...etc. I mean these people are few and far between but what they constitute and think of how Gor is , man are they way off base and fucked in the head. One female told me that a Gor man told her that all women on Gor were treated like an animal. Sheesh, give me a go. Let us face facts, some are, others are FC, others are free, so forth. I sent her a mail about more Gor and then she came back more relieved.

Why can't there be a psycho test before reading the books........LOL....I would have failed that anyways....just laughs. But in all seriousness, I mean why are the ones that stand out are the few and far between people that think of Gor as a fantasy role playing theme world ?

Be well.

Frank Ar.

_____________________________

I am just me, simple ol me.

Even the softest whisper can be heard in the loudest group....Frank H.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 18

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 6/28/2008 1:25:58 AM

Thadius

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Tal Frank,

Unfortunately, most of my library is gone, but not for ever.

I think part of it is the romanticism of what they think slavery involves. Another part being the same way most stereotypes are propagated, through ignorance, and by repeating lies enough that eventually some actually start to believe it to be true. Let's also not how popular the damn role play chat rooms were just a few years ago. Then add on top of all of that, the idea that some horny net geek gets in his head that being a GOREAN MASTER JARL OF THE WORLD is a sure way to get a woman to do anything he wants.

I am not sure I would have passed a test prior to reading them either. Though a test after might not be a bad idea, if only.

This is just my opinion, would love to read yours.

I wish you well,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to FrankAr)

Post #: 19

RE: Everything you ever wanted to about Goreans, but we... - 7/2/2008 11:56:50 AM

slavetaboo

Posts: 408
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline

Greetings Masters,

I offer my thanks for those who were willing to respond to my question. I hope I might be allowed to ask a follow up question. I beg to receive patience since I feel that I am having difficulty wording this adequately.

This is something that has been on my mind for awhile and recently entered my thoughts again. I have a decent job and a decent family. My sons spend time with our family members like my daddy and also their own father. I attend to my adult responsibilities and have a decent and relatively happy life.

I have felt punished before for having the things I do have because I sometimes believe this makes me less appealing. I do not think anyone's intention has been to make me feel punished but yet I have. I almost do not understand the how or why.

When choosing a slave, is it easier for the man if a girl has alot of problems and he can easily scoop her up and take her away from them and improve her life immediately with little or no involvement from others such as family OR the alternative being a girl who has made a life for herself and looks to add or enrich it and change it for the better. Is the trouble of working through changes with someone well rooted in their life not worth it?

I feel very stupid asking this but I am sincere in hoping for honest feedback.

< Message edited by slavetaboo -- 7/2/2008 11:59:03 AM >

_____________________________

For I long for a man with nests of wild things in his hair.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 20

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