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slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 12:21:46 PM   
Mitzie


Posts: 688
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline 		Tal and greetings
                         Last year there was a thread started which sickened me about a so called Master who had his slave cut herself and take pictures  to send to him but now I  have come across something and wish to talk on the matter.

Do you find its common that slaves owned and unowned self harm and if so how do you yourself deal with it.

I will not mention no names as to who but in the past 2 weeks  I now know of 3 girls who self harm and I might add these are real time slaves 1 owned 2 not owned.

What I am asking is have any of you noticed and come across self harming slaves and if so how do you address the problem, we all know a good percentage of self harmers do it for attention and some do it when frustrated and I know there might be some sharp and nasty comments but I ask that you remember that self harming is proven to be an illness.

I look forward to the replies from both Free and slaves

        Mitzie



_____________________________

"The free should not be slave, and the slave should not be free," he said. "I do not understand," she said. "Just as it is wrong for the properly free to be enslaved," he said, "so, too, it is wrong for the properly enslaved to be free."PoG


Profile   Post #: 1
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 12:33:59 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3033
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Mistress,

This should be an interesting thread to follow.  I look forward to reading others thoughts.

If by self harm you are referring only to cutting and scarification, then I have never experienced wanting to do this.  If you include bouts with over eating or binging as self harm, then yes, I have done this. 

There have been times in the past when anger turned inside became depression and thus I have looked for ways to punish myself, again using food as a weapon.  The need for this is no longer prevelant as I have learned many new tools to deal with anger in a rational manner and not allow it to control me.

well wishes ~ fairer than she


_____________________________

"The girl shows up tomorrow evening for some time together...and I need someone to fuck with, so things are looking up, I reckon. "

"The girl is a world class somnambulist." ~ Senor Jaime

(in reply to Mitzie)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 12:47:21 PM   
allcatsaregrey


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/2/2007
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I am also curious about what others have to say about self-harm in the lifestyle. I used to inflict pain on myself when I was very depressed. For me it was a facet of my depression. I went to therapy and it worked for me: I haven't had the urge to harm myself in several years. However, that's relative to my sitaution, only. I can't speak for others.

I can't say for sure about how many others do self harm for catharsis or other reasons. I am sure you can find reliable information from the APA or Phychology Today, however.

I myself don't fully understand what could be erotic about it, but others will have input. As far as the free slaves hurting themselves, it could be either circumstance, but I can't say since I don't know them. However, if they are depressed and hurting themselves, then that is very serious.

_____________________________

Warm Regards,
c.,
The "Service with a Smile" Slut

"Domination's the name of the game, in bed or in life, they're both just the same - Except in one you're fulfilled
at the end of the day."

- Depeche Mode, "Master & servant"

(in reply to fairerthanshe)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 12:50:12 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Tal and greetings all,

I remember many cases of girls doing such things to themselves for even the slightest faux pas or mistake (in their own mind).  They would beat themselves, cut themselves, cut their hair, and many other irrational things, for simply not being found pleasing to a particular "Master" whether they knew him or not.  There has definitely been some instable behaviour over the years.

I am not sure how common such things are, or ever were.  It is enough though that some should raise an eyebrow, and perhaps keep an eye for signs.  Also, I suppose we should look at the the 2 sides of this, was the girl given instructions to do X, and what is the definition of harm; as both of them have weight in this discussion.  This also brings in the old debate as to whether a female that is not owned is a slave, and thus in the position of absolute obediance.

I will touch on this a bit more soon, I wish to see what some of the other opinions are on this subject.

I wish you well,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Mitzie)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 12:56:26 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		~FR~

Before I collared her, my girl self harmed herself and then when I collared her, it became my issue to deal with. She has a deep need to feel pain sometimes, and I make that pain from my hand and it has worked great to diminish the times she feels a need for it, and to control what happens to my property. In discussions the pain would dull out the other emotional pain, or emptiness that she was feeling. She does not have that addiction as she did before.

Live well,
Orion

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 1:13:27 PM   
Daes


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
Status: offline 		I saw this thread and it got my interest.

I am prone to self destruction when I am overstressed.

But this last time I was having thoughts of suicide and had a need to cut myself, something I had not done in four years, I decided to talk to Sir about it. We have a monogamous relationship, and this is what he told me, basically.

"You are My property, and I do not want you damaging what I own. I Own you. I cannot be there right now, so I am giving you permission to have one session with Mike. It will help alleviate some of these feelings that you have and I would appreciate it if it did not involve anything in a sexual context. I love you. Do you want to take away the one thing that makes me happy?"

I said no Sir.

"Good. One session, puppy needs a good cry. Now give me a kiss."

I gave him a kiss, told him I loved him, and thanked him.

Mike is a sadist and my current roommate. Sir understands my need for ocassional pain therapy - I consider it very relaxing and it calms me down. But the thing that stood out for me is that when he said this to me, I reminded myself that I can no longer be selfish. This is about Us, not me individually. I have someone that I Belong to, someone that loves me and I cannot take that for granted and I never want to be a cause for worry. It put things in perspective for me, and I appreciated it with all my heart. He does not want me harming myself, he can readily do that For Me or have someone do it so that I do not make the mistake of accidentally Damaging His property.

He's there to take care of me, and I want to make him happy.

< Message edited by Daes -- 6/26/2008 1:14:15 PM >

_____________________________

~*Estrellita*~
I want to be in surrender of His strength, of His power. Alone, I am nothing, but in His arms I am all things...

~His puppy~

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 1:29:10 PM   
Mitzie


Posts: 688
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline 		Tal and greetings.
                           Thank you all so far for the replies below is a cmail I just had from someone who does not wish to be identified and I respect this but I thought it was an interesting read.

Many years ago (78-90) I used to be a cutter. There was no therapy or name for it back then and eventually I pulled my own self out of it.

                                  Mitzie

Yes, there is a link.

Many slaves/subs have a deep need for control, many cutters cut for control. When someone feels so adrift and that there is nothing they can control, then cutting is something they completely control. A bit like how some girls fall into anorexia, an inability to retain control in their world.

Some for the actual endorphin rush, some have been closed off emotionally so hard that only pain can reach through.

There are many reasons for it beyond what I've mentioned but for me it was about control. Angry, confused and hurting badly it felt like the world was spinning and I couldn't stop it. When I held that razor blade I had control, it was up to me on how deep or where to cut or scratch.

Never for attention, no one knew about it. Today there is a cache around cutting, it is almost accepted as a way of acting out or gaining attention. Back then it was hidden and not spoken of. Usually confused with being suicidal which for me was never the case.
But I needed something, something to grab onto. Something I had utter control over.

Immediately there would be a huge sense of relief, as if all the pent up emotion drained out of me with blood. (not a deep cutter so I hope this doesn't repulse you to read)
As now, if my owner knows that I have a problem with stress or feeling unable to handle too much he gives me a cathartic spanking. Driving me to tears then I can exhaust myself and afterwards feel drained of all the bad.

Cutting was my early catharsis, long before I knew what it meant I was doing it. I was longing for boundaries and rules, flailing and miserable. I suppose looking back I was emotionally immature, I hadn't learned how to manage being emotionally overloaded.
It still happens but much more rarely.



_____________________________

"The free should not be slave, and the slave should not be free," he said. "I do not understand," she said. "Just as it is wrong for the properly free to be enslaved," he said, "so, too, it is wrong for the properly enslaved to be free."PoG



(in reply to Daes)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 1:53:16 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		I've probably mentioned this elsewhere, but clenching ice cubes in your hand will substitute well for some, and doesn't have nearly the same likelyhood of causing actual damage. That's basically the standing recommendation up here, at least, where there are too many people waiting in line for the shrinks to actually get anything done about most of them. The ER docs get fed up with all the cases where someone thinks they are in control ("I've done it X times already, no problem, I know what I'm doing") and it turns out they aren't ("ZOMG! I'm gonna dieeee!").

As for actually dealing with the problem, that's bound to be a fairly individual thing. Just because one person has an idea of why they did it doesn't mean that idea holds true for all of them. The most common denominator among those I have encountered has been that they've been using physical pain to dull mental pain, usually depression, lonelyness or general angst. S/M, opiates and sedatives are a much safer way to go about that, and addressing the mental pain itself is a more productive route.

Whether it's going to be cost effective depends a lot on the prospective kajira, though.

If you don't know her, and aren't looking for a major fixer-upper, I don't see many mutually¹ acceptable solutions.

Health,
al-Aswad.

¹ Assuming you're not either looking for a glorified doll, or are an outlaw, or whatever.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Mitzie)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 3:21:10 PM   
Hiskajirah


Posts: 929
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters
Greetings Mistresses
Greetings girls

Greetings Mistress Mitzie

Yes I have done it. No, I never did it for attention and very few know. My doctors know, though. I have pierced my belly button so many times it's scarred. 15-20 times, whether I put jewelry in it or not. I just laid back and shoved 16g needle through my skin and with any tears that came, I felt cleansed. I've used my upper left thigh, so that the cuts can't be seen even with short shorts on. I do it as a diversion. Pain diverts pain and to be honest gives me complete control over the situation whereas I have 0 control otherwise.

With respect,
~twinkle

_____________________________

"Do not try to force me to be what you want me to be! Accept me for what I want to be,&am!—one who knows she belongs at the feet of men!&desires to be at the feet of men!-their slave!!—their loving slave!” Witness
www.CRPSAdvisory.com

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 3:59:15 PM   
Daes


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
Status: offline 		Hmm.

I tend to do it to focus on physical pain rather than the mental. A reminder that pain is temporary and I can bear it and I will live. It's like.. taking all the hurt/anger you feel and releasing it. In its own way, it is a form of escape, just like sex or drugs. At least that is the way it is for me. It's a temporary escape from whatever troubles are bothering me, which is why Sir's substitution for heavy play works with me.

When all is said and done, I'd breathe, take it in, relax, and let the pain linger. I'll calm down and be at ease.

< Message edited by Daes -- 6/26/2008 4:00:33 PM >

_____________________________

~*Estrellita*~
I want to be in surrender of His strength, of His power. Alone, I am nothing, but in His arms I am all things...

~His puppy~

(in reply to Hiskajirah)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 3:59:32 PM   
Mitzie


Posts: 688
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline 		greetings twinkle.
                          stunning new pic by the way.

I know this is not easy for people to come forward and talk  and I appreciate all that do come forward,  I hope  people dont come barging in  with nasty words ect,,,.

Again I state this is an illness so for those who have managed to control it how did you do it and how  do you still control it now.

                                                              Mitzie

_____________________________

"The free should not be slave, and the slave should not be free," he said. "I do not understand," she said. "Just as it is wrong for the properly free to be enslaved," he said, "so, too, it is wrong for the properly enslaved to be free."PoG



(in reply to Hiskajirah)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 4:02:45 PM   
Daes


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
Status: offline 		A Good caning to the point of tears/screaming.

Or as I call it, pain therapy.

I have friends that understand this need for pain and gladly oblige.

Edit: Or, if the need for a blade is deeply rooted, you may want someone to do it with you to make sure what one doesnt get carried away doing more damage than is safe.

< Message edited by Daes -- 6/26/2008 4:06:38 PM >

_____________________________

~*Estrellita*~
I want to be in surrender of His strength, of His power. Alone, I am nothing, but in His arms I am all things...

~His puppy~

(in reply to Mitzie)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 4:13:56 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Mitzie,

I do not know much about self harming when it concerns cutting and such things. However when it is a matter of  setting yourself on a path of destruction, I am a lil more learned with that.
I know a girl can be on an absolute death wish path and put herself in situations that could potentially harm her physically if not kill her literally. Also they can be a little more subtle and not care if they end up with an STD, or worse, aids..a definate death sentance.

I also know a bit about taking the emotional pain out on their appearance, such as with hair cutting, etc. I myself use to do that when I was upset and depressed...lol..I would hack off all my hair and not a cute short hair style either. I mean a real butcher job.
I got over that though, quickly...lol

Sadly, I have learned though. that when someone is on a destructive path, there is little we as Free can do to help (unless) that girl is willing to listen and follow direction. they must want to be helped and must want to figure things out. Untill that happens, there is nothing anyone can do.

Take care,
Maah

< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 6/26/2008 4:14:47 PM >

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Mitzie)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 4:15:33 PM   
Hiskajirah


Posts: 929
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mitzie

greetings twinkle.
                         stunning new pic by the way.

I know this is not easy for people to come forward and talk  and I appreciate all that do come forward,  I hope  people dont come barging in  with nasty words ect,,,.

Again I state this is an illness so for those who have managed to control it how did you do it and how  do you still control it now.

                                                             Mitzie


Greetings Mistress

Thank you for commenting on my new pic. Next time I'll put some makeup on. ~grins

Of all the things I've talked about in this Forum, I don't think I ever mentioned that I've done this or do this. The last time was about 6 weeks ago and I made a journal entry of it. Not of any details really, just that I did. When I feel an overwhelming urge to do it, I try to just roll over and go to sleep, turn my mind to something else, take my meds. I've been using tylenol pm to help me sleep so that I don't have to go on yet another prescription medication. And it does help enough to stay off more.

For me it is spontaneous Mistress, so sometimes I can't control it. It's a quick decision and I do it before having a chance to try and stop myself. That may seem odd since we all are suppose have the ability to possess or demonstrate self control. I'm on my own most of the day and night. My Master sleeps days and works nights, which is by no means his fault, he works that shift for the shift differential pay to support me. I feel lonliness an awful lot and have a lot of fears inside me beside the physical pain and pressures of everyday life.

To answer your question Mistress, I'm not sure I actually have control over it. I hope that others that read my post feel comfortable now coming forward and discussing it. That is why I shared this of myself, so we can learn from one another.

And Mistress..

I thank you for starting this post.

Sincerely,
~twinkle

_____________________________

"Do not try to force me to be what you want me to be! Accept me for what I want to be,&am!—one who knows she belongs at the feet of men!&desires to be at the feet of men!-their slave!!—their loving slave!” Witness
www.CRPSAdvisory.com

(in reply to Mitzie)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 4:18:31 PM   
MontrealPhoenix


Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline 		Greetings Mitzie,
 
I too used to do it, because it was the only way i knew to release the emotional pain deep inside. I used to make little cuts on the upper side of my wrists (now recognised as unconscious suicide attempts but lacking the "courage" to go through with it) and along the outside of my lower arms. No it wasn't to get attention, i wore long sleeves so noone would see the cuts. It just released all the sadness and anger i couldn't stand to show the world. I was teased a lot because i didn't ever fight back. But at the same time, i couldn't show them that they were getting to me. So it all went inside and then was released by use of a small, sharp knife. I agree, it gives control over physical pain at a time when there is no control over anything else.
 
phoenix (imp)

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267



(in reply to Mitzie)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 4:48:24 PM   
lilprissygirl


Posts: 5
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		I have gone through several episodes of "self-harm".  Usually superficial cuts, scratches and bites.  Mostly stemming from anger that I wasn't sure how to express without any true target and so making myself that target.  If that makes sense?  I then, without realizing, began to cut my hair everytime I was going through some emotional turmoil.  A friend of mine pointed out the pattern to me after going from "below the shoulders" length to a "pixie" look.  She said..."I can always tell when you are going thru something, you whack your hair off".  I kind of laugh now, my life finally gaining some type or normality but every now and again I get the urge to cut my hair off and I ask myself...why?.... 

It can be rather hard to realize when we are torturing ourselves sometimes, only through the eyes of our friends are we able to see what we do to ourselves....

**dang typos**

< Message edited by lilprissygirl -- 6/26/2008 4:49:49 PM >

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 4:54:08 PM   
XaviersXian


Posts: 525
Joined: 9/8/2007
From: Australia
Status: offline 		greetings to all,

This is not something that xian has ever contemplated.  She has found that seeking professional help for her problems very early on (and following the advice given to her) has gotten her through all the major issues that have cropped up in her life.  She cannot understand the mental state of those who would want to self harm, but she recognises that each person has different coping mechanisms to deal with issues in their lives.  Each to their own.

well wishes,

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 9:53:16 PM   
alittleevil


Posts: 235
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mitzie
Tal and greetings
                        Last year there was a thread started which sickened me about a so called Master who had his slave cut herself and take pictures  to send to him but now I  have come across something and wish to talk on the matter.

Do you find its common that slaves owned and unowned self harm and if so how do you yourself deal with it.

I will not mention no names as to who but in the past 2 weeks  I now know of 3 girls who self harm and I might add these are real time slaves 1 owned 2 not owned.

What I am asking is have any of you noticed and come across self harming slaves and if so how do you address the problem, we all know a good percentage of self harmers do it for attention and some do it when frustrated and I know there might be some sharp and nasty comments but I ask that you remember that self harming is proven to be an illness.

I look forward to the replies from both Free and slaves

       Mitzie

Greetings Mistress Mitzie and All,

Self injury is a difficult topic. For those who do it, it is often a source of confusion and shame.  For some the action mimics addictive behaviors, for others it happens in almost a disassociative state, for most it is as so many have described here, an expression of inner anguish that one hopes to exorcize thru physical harm.  I myself used self injury as both 1)an attempt at a coping skill (the inner pain and lack of direction needed an outlet and breaking my skin felt like  release of pressure), and, please pardon the term but it is accurate if a bit crude, 2) "masochistic masturbation."  Not pain for sexual or erotic pleasure or release in my case, but nonetheless...soothing. Cathartic. A release.

There are techniques one can use to meet the need for pain/intense sensation (The urge to 'cut' doesn't always occur at times when one can beg help from another and in the initial stages of stopping impulsive self injury the first step is often substitution). As Master Aswad mentioned, ice cubes are effective. Very effective. Snapping rubber bands against thin-skinned areas like the inside of the wrist. Hot pepper sauce or intensely sour or hot cinnamon candy on the tongue. A splash of very cold water on the face and temples. The substitution is designed to make the behavior less harmful while one works on developing other coping skills and decreasing the behavior while addressing whatever underlying issues are there. However, it is also true that self injurers do not always seek pain, per se (Some do not even really feel their injuries they are so trained to numbness).  They are instead motivated by the sight of blood, or the injury, or by engaging in rituals of self care after the injury.  For those, different techniques can be found.  Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (an offshoot of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) addresses self injury and helps people discover more functional emotional regulation and self soothing techniques.

I am no longer allowed to injure myself.  The aforementioned tricks got me through some urges in the beginning of stopping the behavior. For me the motivation to obey is stronger than the impulse to 'cut' and the consequences of doing so are...exceedingly unappealing. The impulses in times of stress do still occur though.

With hopes that my words are of some use to some and my best to all,
aj


(in reply to Mitzie)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: slaves self harming - 6/26/2008 10:18:51 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings aj,

Thanks for the extra advice, and I would like to say that the rubber bands can be very effective for keep the urge at bay until they can get assistance from another person. My girl uses them when she is away from me, if she needs to. I am sure the cause is different in many individuals, but in my girl it seems to be from having to supress her emotions most of her life, as a defense mechanism. Since I have been working with her to express those emotions when she feels them, her urges have gone way down.

Live well,
Orion

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to alittleevil)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: slaves self harming - 6/27/2008 1:20:48 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 16506
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Hello everyone,

I would like to caution about this.  Cutting is often a symptom of a serious psychiatric condition.... Just as it wouldn't be expected that Master/Mistress "solve" a medical condition like lupus or diabetes, we need to be careful about expecting laypersons to solve this issue.  Are there behavioral things that can be done?  Yes... but please remember  that sometimes a professional needs to be involved.  With their guidance, behavioral measures can be put in place.  As M Mitzie pointed out it can be part of an illness.

With respect,
sunshine

_____________________________

¿me preguntas por que compro arroz y flores? compro arroz para vivir y flores para tener algo por lo que vivir.
~Confucio

Yes, I am a wonton hussy.

Head Hib Harem Hottie

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 20
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